CFZ QBs alone don’t win SBs- TEAMS win SBs

[thunderpimp91]

What’s interesting is having a great defense (top 5) seems to be more important historically than having an elite QB.

Even recent history suggests this too. Over the last decade or so we have had multiple mediocre QBs reach the superbowl (Goff, Wentz/Foles, Manning on his last leg, Jimmy G). I really can't find a recent super bowl team that had a poor defense though.

 

[noshame]

Quarterbacks cannot win super bowls but a quarterback can lose the Super Bowl

 

[cnuball21]

Quarterbacks cannot win super bowls but a quarterback can lose the Super Bowl

Preach that fire!

 

[cnuball21]

I believe that Dallas's special hierarchy setup requires that the QB to be so elite that he will hafta overcome both the GM's and the HC'S deficiencies.

GM, HC and QB1 are the triangle to winning consistently.

It's gonna take the most elite QB that you can find in order to overcome both Jerry and McCarthy while beating 3 to 4 straight playoff opponents.

A once in a lifetime, one year dominant, suffocating defense could increase success chances but only for a year.

Just food for thought.

Dallas is unique.

Jerry and Stephen are the biggest problems in Dallas and are the reason we haven’t seen great success in the last 20 years IMO.

Not the players, not the coaches…the Owner / GM. Our roster management, contracts and constant circus are laughable.

 

[leeblair]

Lee I agree with you that Dak needs to step up his game against the better teams. No question. And I’m not a “Dak apologist”. I just want to see the team win. But I do think there are some strange bars that have been set for Dak that aren’t always consistent.

Since you mentioned Dak choking in big games, can you give a couple of examples? He certainly played well enough to beat the packers in both 2016. He has only played in 4 playoff games. Here are his stats:

• 2016 Divisional playoff game vs pack. Lost 34-31. Dak was 24/38 for 302 yds and 1 pick. He had a 103 QBR.
• 2018 WC game- W vs Seattle, 24-22. Prescott finished the game 22-of-33 for 226 yards and a touchdown, with one interception. He also rushed for 29 yards and a touchdown. His QBR was 93.
• 2018 Divisional Round. L 30-22 vs rams. Dak played pretty well going 20/32 for 266 and 1 TD, no picks and also rushed for a TD. His QBR was 99.2. We lost because the defense gave up 273 yds rushing.
• 2021 WC game vs SF. L 23-16. This was Dak’s worst playoff game. He was 23/43 for 254 yds, 1 TD, 1 INT. QBR of 69. But The whole team also played poorly.
• So for the 4 playoff games Dak has played in, his stats are:
  • 89/146 for 1,048 yds, 6 TDs/3 INTs, 2 TDs rushing and a QBR of 88.

Yes, Dak needs to play better in big games. No doubt. But the perception that he sucks in the playoffs is just not that accurate.

There's your mistake; stats misrepresent what actually happened. In each game Dak shut down early, then padded his stats against loose defenses after the game was out of reach. In 2016 the Packers got a little careless at the end, allowing the Cowboys to actually take the lead, but they easily took back the lead and won the game.
Stats lie. They don't show what actually happens in a game. They don't show how a team trying to comeback exhausts themselves physically, and just as important - emotionally.
So when the Cowboys repeatedly fall behind because Dak chokes in the first half, the opposing teams can play loose and let the Cowboys exhaust themselves and the clock, but they are always in control.
In seasonal games it's the same, with Dak padding his stats against the woeful NFC East and other weak teams. But each time the Cowboys have to face an opponent that is a winner, Dak chokes and the Cowboys lose.
Who can forget losing the East to the Eagles, when for weeks the Cowboys needed only one win to clinch it. Losses to the Vikings, Bears, Bills, and then an injury riddled Eagles team ensured the end of Jason Garrett.
But Jerry should have sent Dak with him.

 

[75boyz]

Jerry and Stephen are the biggest problems in Dallas and are the reason we haven’t seen great success in the last 20 years IMO.

Not the players, not the coaches…the Owner / GM. Our roster management, contracts and constant circus are laughable.

Agree. And no offense to whether you like or dislike the current HC, but the HCs hired by said GM is a major factor in lack of success as well.

 

[john van brocklin]

I certainly agree with many Cowboys fans that Dak needs to lead us to some playoff wins. But there is a major problem with the premise that QBs alone win SBs. That’s not correct. Teams win Super Bowls. Even the best QBs need help to win a SB.

Don’t believe me?

• Look at the 2020 SB champion Buccaneers. Tom Brady was horrible in the NFC championship game that year vs GB. He threw 3 picks that allowed the pack to almost win that game. The Tampa defense bailed him out. He played very well in the SB. But without the TB defense, there is no SB win.
• Look at last year’s champ the rams. Matt Stafford had ZERO playoff wins until he was traded to a better TEAM. Stafford was a key part of them winning, but he certainly didn’t carry them alone.
  
• The year Filly won their SB their QB was Nick Foles. Anyone watching the e-girls playoff wins that season knows very well that Nick Foles did not carry that team alone on his back.

This list could go on and on. Teams win SBs. Yes, you have to have good quarterbacking to win in the playoffs. But if that were all you need why hasn’t Aaron Rodgers won more than 1 SB?

Look, Dak needs to start leading this team to some playoff wins- on that I wholeheartedly agree. But it takes a lot more than a hero at QB to win a SB.

True, the QB is THE most important position on the team, but is a small % of the reason for their success, or lack thereof.

 

[Bobhaze]

Jerry and Stephen are the biggest problems in Dallas and are the reason we haven’t seen great success in the last 20 years IMO.

Not the players, not the coaches…the Owner / GM. Our roster management, contracts and constant circus are laughable.

Agree 100%. Because JJ is by design the face and centerpiece of the franchise. The coaching has not been great and the overall roster has not been good enough to do much in the playoffs. Especially on the defensive side of the ball. That is changing which gives me some hope.

But you are exactly right in my view. The primary reason we haven’t done squat in the playoffs for 26 years is sitting in the owners box with his sidekick son who qualified for his job the night Daddy’s check to buy the team cleared the bank.

 

[Doomsday101]

True, the QB is THE most important position on the team, but is a small % of the reason for their success, or lack thereof.

True it is the one position where a QB can do a lot to lose a game since he handles the ball on every snap but can't win a game without the support of the offensive unit. When Mahomes would hit a 5 yard pass to Hill and he takes it 50 yards was that Mahomes greatness or was it Hill?

 

[john van brocklin]

True it is the one position where a QB can do a lot to lose a game since he handles the ball on every snap but can't win a game without the support of the offensive unit. When Mahomes would hit a 5 yard pass to Hill and he takes it 50 yards was that Mahomes greatness or was it Hill?

Good point my friend!

 

[75boyz]

Agree 100%. Because JJ is by design the face and centerpiece of the franchise. The coaching has not been great and the overall roster has not been good enough to do much in the playoffs. Especially on the defensive side of the ball. That is changing which gives me some hope.

But you are exactly right in my view. The primary reason we haven’t done squat in the playoffs for 26 years is sitting in the owners box with his sidekick son who qualified for his job the night Daddy’s check to buy the team cleared the bank.

While I agree, I still believe that both the Head Coach and the QB1 should be held to their strong portion of accountability in their roles towards team success.

Just because Jerry hired the HC and drafted the QB does not absolve that HC or QB of their fair share of blame if they perform poorly at their jobs.

A case can be made for all 3 having specific degrees of responsibility to team success but I agree the lion's share does fall squarely in Jerry's lap.

 

[75boyz]

There's your mistake; stats misrepresent what actually happened. In each game Dak shut down early, then padded his stats against loose defenses after the game was out of reach. In 2016 the Packers got a little careless at the end, allowing the Cowboys to actually take the lead, but they easily took back the lead and won the game.
Stats lie. They don't show what actually happens in a game. They don't show how a team trying to comeback exhausts themselves physically, and just as important - emotionally.
So when the Cowboys repeatedly fall behind because Dak chokes in the first half, the opposing teams can play loose and let the Cowboys exhaust themselves and the clock, but they are always in control.
In seasonal games it's the same, with Dak padding his stats against the woeful NFC East and other weak teams. But each time the Cowboys have to face an opponent that is a winner, Dak chokes and the Cowboys lose.
Who can forget losing the East to the Eagles, when for weeks the Cowboys needed only one win to clinch it. Losses to the Vikings, Bears, Bills, and then an injury riddled Eagles team ensured the end of Jason Garrett.
But Jerry should have sent Dak with him.

Yep, context is everything. Nice post.
When and how those stats were accomplished tells the real story.

It's the story of his entire 2019 reg. season and where he still stands today regarding how he plays against tougher/playoff level opponents.

My personal kudos to ya for standing up on several posts when your opinion has been widely criticized at times. I admired that I'd rather be right than popular past post you made.

Cheers.

 

[Nexx]

top five defense with an elite QB wins

 

[Flamma]

Sad part is it has always been this way, Teams win SB in what is the ultimate team sports "Football" yet some still can't grasp this concept

It's never going to change either. How many times did we hear, what has Stafford done? Every time I saw that written I think I became dumber for reading it. What QB took a crap team to the SB?

 

[G2]

This should be pinned.

 

[Smith22]

There's your mistake; stats misrepresent what actually happened. In each game Dak shut down early, then padded his stats against loose defenses after the game was out of reach. In 2016 the Packers got a little careless at the end, allowing the Cowboys to actually take the lead, but they easily took back the lead and won the game.
Stats lie. They don't show what actually happens in a game. They don't show how a team trying to comeback exhausts themselves physically, and just as important - emotionally.
So when the Cowboys repeatedly fall behind because Dak chokes in the first half, the opposing teams can play loose and let the Cowboys exhaust themselves and the clock, but they are always in control.
In seasonal games it's the same, with Dak padding his stats against the woeful NFC East and other weak teams. But each time the Cowboys have to face an opponent that is a winner, Dak chokes and the Cowboys lose.
Who can forget losing the East to the Eagles, when for weeks the Cowboys needed only one win to clinch it. Losses to the Vikings, Bears, Bills, and then an injury riddled Eagles team ensured the end of Jason Garrett.
But Jerry should have sent Dak with him.

The half time score of that game was 21-13 GB, so a 1 score game with 2 pt conversion.

The defense came out the 2nd half and immediately gave up a really quick TD.

The offense put up 14 points to tie, then a FG again to tie again, only to see the defense give up the winning FG on a 30 second drive.

TEAM game.

 

[blueblood70]

I certainly agree with many Cowboys fans that Dak needs to lead us to some playoff wins. But there is a major problem with the premise that QBs alone win SBs. That’s not correct. Teams win Super Bowls. Even the best QBs need help to win a SB.

Don’t believe me?

• Look at the 2020 SB champion Buccaneers. Tom Brady was horrible in the NFC championship game that year vs GB. He threw 3 picks that allowed the pack to almost win that game. The Tampa defense bailed him out. He played very well in the SB. But without the TB defense, there is no SB win.
• Look at last year’s champ the rams. Matt Stafford had ZERO playoff wins until he was traded to a better TEAM. Stafford was a key part of them winning, but he certainly didn’t carry them alone.
  
• The year Filly won their SB their QB was Nick Foles. Anyone watching the e-girls playoff wins that season knows very well that Nick Foles did not carry that team alone on his back.

This list could go on and on. Teams win SBs. Yes, you have to have good quarterbacking to win in the playoffs. But if that were all you need why hasn’t Aaron Rodgers won more than 1 SB?

Look, Dak needs to start leading this team to some playoff wins- on that I wholeheartedly agree. But it takes a lot more than a hero at QB to win a SB.

Right the TEAM neddzs to not ask Dak to bail them out of ,

• 14 penalties
• no run support
• defense giving up 4 straight scores and not controlling the run game
• poor game planning and in game play calls.
• hope the refs don't blow call or jog lazily to set the ball on final play

this goes for past Romo playoff failures, seems like the TEAM failed the Qb more than the QB failed. Lso the dez catch. so may player picked the wrong games to have their worst ones, mostly the OL, DL, and disappearing Wrs etc
incident.

these are things that even a drew brees or Rogers can overcome weve recently seen this.
good you mentioned Stafford's he was bailed out many times leading the league in Interceptions and its happening again this year with worse results. in that SB ending the defense had to go get the ball back twice to give Stafford a chance.

when has that happened for dak, not many times that for sure ?

 

[IceStar-D7]

We seen Super Bowls won by inferior quarterback play before. And I don't put Dak in that category. In the end it's a 3 leg response. Great Org's. Great coaching. Great teams working on all levels. Offense doing just enough. Great defense and Special teams. One guy has rarely won a Super Bowl on his own. Lost one maybe. But rarely won one. Of the forementioned 3 legs? We have one....TEAM...

 

[Established1971]

I would kind of disagree, or at least alter this a bit. QB's DO win superbowls however they cant win it alone. But the QB is probably the most important part along with the offensive line and defense. I would put the coach, receivers and running game in tier 2 of importance and the special teams 3.

Its been 56 Super Bowls now and the ratio of great qb's winning those games to ones that were merely ok is 4 to 1

 

[GMO415]

top five defense with an elite QB wins

All day every day.