News: Quarterback trap

[Irvin88_4life]

Come on, I dont think Aikman was horrible his first three years in the league. The first year was tough, he didn't even win a game. He was a pro bowler by his third year. I agree no QB is perfect and i cant expect Dak to be.
Like I have said multiple times, Dak is a very good player he just isn't elite.. and that is not an insult.
Frankly a lot of these discussions really are a moot point as he will get paid what the Cowboys are willing to pay him. I feel as though the fan base and even the front office act as if there is no choice.

Haha Aikmans 3rd year he had 11 TDs and 10 picks and just over 2700 yards passing. Yes he made the probowl but those are terrible stats. By the way his 2nd year he had 11 TDs 18 picks.

Say whatever you want but Dak has clearly outplayed Aikman in their first 3 years and Aikman was terrible his first 3 years....... TERRIBLE

 

[EGTuna]

Awesome! I love that movie!

Then you should watch Netflix's Russian Doll. Takes the Groundhog Day concept to a new, cool, level.

 

[Stash]

Then you should watch Netflix's Russian Doll. Takes the Groundhog Day concept to a new, cool, level.

I'll look into it, thanks. Is it funny?

 

[Birdgang]

If any of you sons of itches have anything else to say... NOW'S THE BLEEPING TIME!!!

I like Turtles

 

[JoeKing]

That's why one shouldn't judge a QB on wins. Dak is mentally tough and plays best under mental pressure -- not understating how important that is -- but we obviously have a much better team than the Packers right now. Give us Rodgers and does anyone not think that the offense would be better?

I was never trying to make the case Dak is a better QB than Aaron Rodgers. If that's what you think I was doing then I apologize for giving you that impression. I was only trying to make the case that Dak is better than average.

 

[glimmerman]

If you were him would you sign for that.

If Dak injures a leg He is Done . . 18 mil a year QB at best

 

[Irvin88_4life]

I was never trying to make the case Dak is a better QB than Aaron Rodgers. If that's what you think I was doing then I apologize for giving you that impression. I was only trying to make the case that Dak is better than average.

I'm not sure I would want Rodgers over Dak right now. Rodgers is getting past his prime and injuries are starting to mount up. Dak is just entering his prime and stays healthy.

 

[Stash]

I'm not sure I would want Rodgers over Dak right now. Rodgers is getting past his prime and injuries are starting to mount up. Dak is just entering his prime and stays healthy.

It's an interesting conversation to have anyway.

I concede that Rodgers is the better passer today, but it's interesting to note that in fact Dak scored more touchdowns in 2018 for his team than Rodgers did for his.

And Rodgers huge cap hit will inevitably affect the overall team. It's already impacted the careers of Jordy Nelson and Randall Cobb, and Jimmy Graham is likely out the door next.

And as great as Rodgers is, he's won just one Super Bowl, and he and the Packers were non-factors last year. He, and that team, are at a crossroads.

 

[dckid]

It's an interesting conversation to have anyway.

I concede that Rodgers is the better passer today, but it's interesting to note that in fact Dak scored more touchdowns in 2018 for his team than Rodgers did for his.

And Rodgers huge cap hit will inevitably affect the overall team. It's already impacted the careers of Jordy Nelson and Randall Cobb, and Jimmy Graham is likely out the door next.

And as great as Rodgers is, he's won just one Super Bowl, and he and the Packers were non-factors last year. He, and that team, are at a crossroads.

Now we are just going crazy. Aaron Rodgers over Dak is not even a question. Yes we found out some interesting stuff this year where Rodgers and McCarthy were at odds for a while and there some coach ability questions, which I personally don't buy.
I agree Rodgers should have at least a couple of more SB appearances. They had that meltdown against Seattle in 2013. Losing to Atlanta in 2016 was a bit embarrassing. I think the key is competing every year and having a reasonable shot at getting to the SB.
We can say the same for the Saints.. One SB win, they should have a couple more apperances.
Steelers with Big Ben, they should have more than 3 appearances in his tenure but at least he has two wins.
Chargers... comedy of errors with that team. Rivers has been a rock throughout but I think only one Championship appearance is suspect.
Giants.. Two SB wins but no other playoff wins in Eli's career. Thinak about that for a second. Proof that lighting can strike twice.

If you are anyone other than the Patriots, a lot of things have to break right to reach the SB.

 

[JoeKing]

I'm not sure I would want Rodgers over Dak right now. Rodgers is getting past his prime and injuries are starting to mount up. Dak is just entering his prime and stays healthy.

I agree with you. For this team, my QB is Dak. He's a young healthy QB that answers the bell far more than Rodgers does for the Packers at this point in his career. Reliability matters.

 

[Stash]

Now we are just going crazy. Aaron Rodgers over Dak is not even a question.

It's still interesting that in fact Dak scored more touchdowns in 2018.

Yes we found out some interesting stuff this year where Rodgers and McCarthy were at odds for a while and there some coach ability questions, which I personally don't buy.
I agree Rodgers should have at least a couple of more SB appearances. They had that meltdown against Seattle in 2013. Losing to Atlanta in 2016 was a bit embarrassing. I think the key is competing every year and having a reasonable shot at getting to the SB.
We can say the same for the Saints.. One SB win, they should have a couple more apperances.

I can also accurately say that the Saints had some crazy plays and calls go AGAINST them? The Packers, those calls and plays go FOR them and they still can't win a Super Bowl.

Steelers with Big Ben, they should have more than 3 appearances in his tenure but at least he has two wins.
Chargers... comedy of errors with that team. Rivers has been a rock throughout but I think only one Championship appearance is suspect.
Giants.. Two SB wins but no other playoff wins in Eli's career. Thinak about that for a second. Proof that lighting can strike twice.

If you are anyone other than the Patriots, a lot of things have to break right to reach the SB.

So if we're "absolving" the other "great quarterbacks" of failing to win Super Bowls, does Dak get that same treatment?

 

[pansophy]

I was never trying to make the case Dak is a better QB than Aaron Rodgers. If that's what you think I was doing then I apologize for giving you that impression. I was only trying to make the case that Dak is better than average.

No need -- I didn't think you really thought that Dak is better. It's just that QBs get assessed on so many things that have nothing to do with their play. Rodgers 'stats' look pedestrian the last year or two, but he has also had crap around him. Dak's pre and post Cooper stats are pretty striking from last year.

So how do we isolate Dak from what is around him? Plays his best football under mental pressure, which is a pretty big plus. Not that accurate, which shows up most on 3rd and long when defenses know he has to pass.

It's not that I think there is a better realistic option out there than Dak because I don't. I just worry about him taking up so much of the cap space that we can't put a good enough team around him to be successful, because as we have seen, even Rodgers can't win with nobody around him.

 

[JoeKing]

No need -- I didn't think you really thought that Dak is better. It's just that QBs get assessed on so many things that have nothing to do with their play. Rodgers 'stats' look pedestrian the last year or two, but he has also had crap around him. Dak's pre and post Cooper stats are pretty striking from last year.

So how do we isolate Dak from what is around him? Plays his best football under mental pressure, which is a pretty big plus. Not that accurate, which shows up most on 3rd and long when defenses know he has to pass.

It's not that I think there is a better realistic option out there than Dak because I don't. I just worry about him taking up so much of the cap space that we can't put a good enough team around him to be successful, because as we have seen, even Rodgers can't win with nobody around him.

He's our franchise QB so he's going to get paid accordingly. Stephen has learned under fire how to better manage our cap space so I wouldn't worry too much about not being able to surround Dak with talented players. Have faith that we are in good hands.

 

[dckid]

It's still interesting that in fact Dak scored more touchdowns in 2018.



I can also accurately say that the Saints had some crazy plays and calls go AGAINST them? The Packers, those calls and plays go FOR them and they still can't win a Super Bowl.



So if we're "absolving" the other "great quarterbacks" of failing to win Super Bowls, does Dak get that same treatment?

Good point on the Phillip Rivers discussion. I would be over the moon if Dak turned out to be Rivers or McNabb, especially if he had McNabb's level of success. Didn't the Eagles reach 4 straight championship games? All you can ask from your team is the chance to get to the big one.

Rivers statistically has been amazing, just look at his career numbers. His postseason career is terrible, only 4 games and 2 wins.

Eli, that guys has to be the luckiest man alive. I'm sure Peyton is dumbfounded on a daily basis as to how he has the same number of SB wins as Eli. Even Archie has to scratch his head on that one.
As mediocre as Eli has been other than 2007 & 2011 SB runs, we as Cowboys fans would love to have that happen with Dak.

The more we talk about the nuances, the tougher this discussion is whether you support paying Dak, or you think he is not worth the elite top 5 QB money. There are several counters against paying him.
Alex Smith, Cousins, Jimmy G ( huge salary for no reason. There is a reason why the Niners have been terrible), Stafford to a degree. He makes so much money for very little return in playoff success
Matt Ryan- He did get to a SB, and the coaches shot themselves in the foot. Still to me the worst loss I have ever seen.
Flacco ( SB is the only saving grace, and it happened before he got two very large contracts)
Sam Bradford

 

[Stash]

Good point on the Phillip Rivers discussion. I would be over the moon if Dak turned out to be Rivers or McNabb, especially if he had McNabb's level of success. Didn't the Eagles reach 4 straight championship games? All you can ask from your team is the chance to get to the big one.

Rivers statistically has been amazing, just look at his career numbers. His postseason career is terrible, only 4 games and 2 wins.

Eli, that guys has to be the luckiest man alive. I'm sure Peyton is dumbfounded on a daily basis as to how he has the same number of SB wins as Eli. Even Archie has to scratch his head on that one.
As mediocre as Eli has been other than 2007 & 2011 SB runs, we as Cowboys fans would love to have that happen with Dak.

The more we talk about the nuances, the tougher this discussion is whether you support paying Dak, or you think he is not worth the elite top 5 QB money. There are several counters against paying him.
Alex Smith, Cousins, Jimmy G ( huge salary for no reason. There is a reason why the Niners have been terrible), Stafford to a degree. He makes so much money for very little return in playoff success
Matt Ryan- He did get to a SB, and the coaches shot themselves in the foot. Still to me the worst loss I have ever seen.
Flacco ( SB is the only saving grace, and it happened before he got two very large contracts)
Sam Bradford

There are undoubtedly some mistakes and cautionary tales regarding paying quarterbacks that big money.

Cousins is the most recent 'Buyer Beware' example, but you can put others like Carr, Stafford, and others in there. There's no denying the risk at those prices.

But ultimately, you're faced with either paying your guy, or hoping to find another one. And what the NFL market has shown us is that there is much more demand than supply, and that's why their salaries continue to skyrocket.

 

[EGTuna]

I'll look into it, thanks. Is it funny?

Yup. Very. Especially if you like Natasha Lyonne. There's unique angle it takes that makes it very different from Groundhog Day.

Since this isn't an OT, thread, I'll contribute to the main thread by saying the Cowboys and VIkes aren't in the same boat Salary cap wise this year or the next. They were able to plug holes with 1-year deals and draft picks. You have to Pay Dak.

 

[EGTuna]

But ultimately, you're faced with either paying your guy, or hoping to find another one. And what the NFL market has shown us is that there is much more demand than supply, and that's why their salaries continue to skyrocket.

This. So much this. Dak will only get more expensive the longer they wait. And unless they finish at the absolute bottom of the league (which they couldn't do with their 2015 QB nonsense) or give up an entire draft for Herbert, then you pay Dak $30m for 3y guaranteed ($90m guaranteed). In 18 months Dak's contract will seem like a bargain.

 

[Coy]

I'm not sure I would want Rodgers over Dak right now. Rodgers is getting past his prime and injuries are starting to mount up. Dak is just entering his prime and stays healthy.

put Rodgers on this team and we win 3 straight Super Bowls, common man.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

The fact that this has run to 14* pages is mind blowing.

Dak will get paid what he gets paid

We wont pay him it or have any say in the amount

It's a pointless conversation.

The fact that it's the billionth thread on the matter makes it more so.

*correct number at time of posting.

Just get out of the way. You have skid marks on yer shirt, lad.

 

[Corso]

Yup. Very. Especially if you like Natasha Lyonne. There's unique angle it takes that makes it very different from Groundhog Day.

Since this isn't an OT, thread, I'll contribute to the main thread by saying the Cowboys and VIkes aren't in the same boat Salary cap wise this year or the next. They were able to plug holes with 1-year deals and draft picks. You have to Pay Dak.

I love Natasha Lyonne!