News: Quarterback trap

[Stash]

I mean I would rather at this point pay Dak even if he doesn't work out. That's the better option than us cutting him, being in QB purgatory, and possibly watch him ball with another team.

I think that ultimately you have to.

As I said, the alternative is taking a team that might have a shot at a championship back to square one, at the most important position in sports. And then trust that the guys who wanted to trade up and use a 1st round pick on Paxton Lynch can find another one.

 

[Philmonroe]

A thread discussing Dak's value. Hmm, hadn't thought of that.

You love it too or else you’d just let it go without posting. Just enjoy the ride lol

 

[dckid]

More like "mic fumbled", as it has been from the start of this thread, one that you obviously didn't think through. All you've accomplished is to show how truly uninformed you are.

I guess we just have to agree to disagree. Part of what each of us is saying is base on our opinion. BTW you have shown no numbers and I still don't know what you are arguing about other than shooting down everyone else's argument. Where do you stand on Dak? Please answer the question instead of playing dodgeball.

When I say he is an average QB, I'm not making up numbers. There are your great numbers.. My gut feeling eye test matches the numbers.
Passing yards over the past three seasons.
2016- Dak 19th
2017 -Dak 16th
2018 -Dak 15th

TD's
2016 Dak 16th
2017 Dak 14th
2018 -Dak 16th[/quote]

These numbers appear to be invalid. Dak scored 32 touchdowns in 2018 which was tied for 10th. Where are you getting your "numbers" from?

[/quote]
Comp Percentage
2016 Dak 4th - Give him 30 million a year for this.
2017 Dak 13th
2018 Dak 10th[/QUOTE]

So he averages 9th here? In the top 10 among quarterbacks? How can this be for the guy you said "throws at his receiver's feet"? Something isn't adding up?
I'll ask you two quick questions, with really easy answers:

How much does Aaron Rodgers - one of your franchise quarterbacks mentioned - make a year now?

How many touchdowns did Rodgers score in 2018 and how many did Dak score?[/QUOTE]

Sorry passing TD's. I admit you "got me" with total TD's. There you go you won the discussion. I give you the star for the day

You really should not compare Arod to Dak. It's just a foolish discussion.

 

[Hennessy_King]

When I say he is an average QB, I'm not making up numbers. There are your great numbers.. My gut feeling eye test matches the numbers.
Numbers don't lie.

Passing yards over the past three seasons.
2016- Dak 19th
2017 -Dak 16th
2018 -Dak 15th

TD's
2016 Dak 16th
2017 Dak 14th
2018 -Dak 16th

Comp Percentage
2016 Dak 4th - Give him 30 million a year for this.
2017 Dak 13th
2018 Dak 10th

He doesn't pad stats he wins games. 17 & 1/2 of 18 he was playing with 3rd stringers at WR. He also has less attempts because we are a running team. You're eyes need to be checked I guess. We also had one of the worst O lines in the league last season.

 

[Hennessy_King]

I think that ultimately you have to.

As I said, the alternative is taking a team that might have a shot at a championship back to square one, at the most important position in sports. And then trust that the guys who wanted to trade up and use a 1st round pick on Paxton Lynch can find another one.

There are teams that are always looking for QB's we were that team after Aikman retired. He's prolly too young to remember that disaster.

 

[Stash]

I guess we just have to agree to disagree. Part of what each of us is saying is base on our opinion. BTW you have shown no numbers and I still don't know what you are arguing about other than shooting down everyone else's argument. Where do you stand on Dak? Please answer the question instead of playing dodgeball.

When I say he is an average QB, I'm not making up numbers. There are your great numbers.. My gut feeling eye test matches the numbers.
Passing yards over the past three seasons.
2016- Dak 19th
2017 -Dak 16th
2018 -Dak 15th

TD's
2016 Dak 16th
2017 Dak 14th
2018 -Dak 16th

These numbers appear to be invalid. Dak scored 32 touchdowns in 2018 which was tied for 10th. Where are you getting your "numbers" from?

Comp Percentage
2016 Dak 4th - Give him 30 million a year for this.
2017 Dak 13th
2018 Dak 10th

So he averages 9th here? In the top 10 among quarterbacks? How can this be for the guy you said "throws at his receiver's feet"? Something isn't adding up?
I'll ask you two quick questions, with really easy answers:

How much does Aaron Rodgers - one of your franchise quarterbacks mentioned - make a year now?

How many touchdowns did Rodgers score in 2018 and how many did Dak score?

Sorry passing TD's. I admit you "got me" with total TD's. There you go you won the discussion. I give you the star for the day

Thanks for admitting your mistake.

You really should not compare Arod to Dak. It's just a foolish discussion.

Why? Because it hurts you to admit the truth? Because you'd prefer to not answer the question?

 

[Stash]

There are teams that are always looking for QB's we were that team after Aikman retired. He's prolly too young to remember that disaster.

It looks that way. There's a whole lot the "kid" doesn't know.

 

[dckid]

https://www.pro-football-reference....toyear_3=2018&player_id3=PresDa01&idx=players

Here are the actual career numbers for all three thus far.

These facts carry far more validity and weight than some guy's opinion. "By the ACTUAL numbers".

Dak has played 10 more games than Goff and 8 more than Wentz so there is that actual fact. Yes I know Availability is the best ability.
Wentz actually might be a bit more injury prone. Btw, I was never comparing Dak to Wentz or Goff. I was always just talking about Dak and why he should not get top 5 QB money because Hello he is not a top 5 QB. All of your distracting Wentz, Goff posts don't prove anything. Why don't you run those comparisons against.
Wilson, Brees, Ryan, Roth, Rivers, Brady, Arod (injured ).
Pay Dakk 22 million per year with a chance to outperform and move on.

 

[Stash]

Dak has played 10 more games than Goff and 8 more than Wentz so there is that actual fact. Yes I know Availability is the best ability.

Good. Thanks for stating the obvious.

Wentz actually might be a bit more injury prone.

"Might"? It's OK to admit the obvious. You actually look better by doing so.

Btw, I was never comparing Dak to Wentz or Goff. I was always just talking about Dak and why he should not get top 5 QB money because Hello he is not a top 5 QB. All of your distracting Wentz, Goff posts don't prove anything. Why don't you run those comparisons against.
Wilson, Brees, Ryan, Roth, Rivers, Brady, Arod (injured ).

That's simple. Wentz and Goff are his contemporaries. The very best examples and comparisons. On one hand, you want to try to use "era" as an excuse, but on the other you want to only compare Dak to proven quarterbacks who have been in the league for many, many more years? Careful there, your total hypocrisy is showing.


[quotePay Dakk 22 million per year with a chance to outperform and move on.[/QUOTE]

Stop giving uninformed advice, to the Cowboys or anyone else. "Move on".

Stay out of the deep end when you clearly can't swim.

 

[dckid]

It looks that way. There's a whole lot the "kid" doesn't know.

Of course I remember that disaster. I never said cut Dak and look for another QB.
It's called negotiation. Dak is not a top 5 QB. Can you please admit this fact or are you going to die on your mountain?

I have stated that Dak is an average to good QB, Middle of the league. You can win with him when you surround him with great talent. He is not elite, thus don't pay him as an elite QB.
22 million a year give him an out after two years. He gets a 20X raise, and then let him out perform his contract. If he does, gladly open up the pocketbook. The cap goes up 10 million a year. The new TV contracts will allow the salary cap to grown even more.

 

[Jake]

I have already stated that i believe Dak is a really good qb, he should make $22 million per year. The Nick Foles contract with an early out is not an insulting offer in my opinion.

Fair enough, so what do you do when his agent turns that down and you have to decide between $30 million and letting him walk?

Remember, this isn't the fantasy QB Store world where you just grab yourself a sure-fire HOFer in the next draft. This is the real world where Dak is the best QB Dallas has drafted in 28 years, while they've made stronger pursuits of guys who turned out to be bums. Romo was a UDFA who had the luxury of watching for 3 years, back when he had to wait 6 years for free agency. Now free agency comes after 4 years, so you can't even go the Romo route now.

So what do you do? Pay Dak or take your chances that NEXT time Jerry and Stephen will hit a home run?

 

[Stash]

Of course I remember that disaster. I never said cut Dak and look for another QB.
It's called negotiation. Dak is not a top 5 QB. Can you please admit this fact or are you going to die on your mountain?

Nobody ever claimed he was Top 5. Try using your Strawman on someone who doesn't know better. I do.

I have stated that Dak is an average to good QB, Middle of the league. You can win with him when you surround him with great talent. He is not elite, thus don't pay him as an elite QB.
22 million a year give him an out after two years. He gets a 20X raise, and then let him out perform his contract. If he does, gladly open up the pocketbook. The cap goes up 10 million a year. The new TV contracts will allow the salary cap to grown even more.

Again, save your poor, uninformed advice and numbers. It's more "fantasy nonsense" that began since this thread started.

 

[Stash]

Fair enough, so what do you do when his agent turns that down and you have to decide between $30 million and letting him walk?

Remember, this isn't the fantasy QB Store world where you just grab yourself a sure-fire HOFer in the next draft. This is the real world where Dak is the best QB Dallas has drafted in 28 years, while they've made stronger pursuits of guys who turned out to be bums. Romo was a UDFA who had the luxury of watching for 3 years, back when he had to wait 6 years for free agency. Now free agency comes after 4 years, so you can't even go the Romo route now.

So what do you do? Pay Dak or take your chances that NEXT time Jerry and Stephen will hit a home run?

Like everything else, that never occurred to him. The thinking has been shallow from the start.

 

[dckid]

Fair enough, so what do you do when his agent turns that down and you have to decide between $30 million and letting him walk?

Remember, this isn't the fantasy QB Store world where you just grab yourself a sure-fire HOFer in the next draft. This is the real world where Dak is the best QB Dallas has drafted in 28 years, while they've made stronger pursuits of guys who turned out to be bums. Romo was a UDFA who had the luxury of watching for 3 years, back when he had to wait 6 years for free agency. Now free agency comes after 4 years, so you can't even go the Romo route now.

So what do you do? Pay Dak or ignore history and take your chances that NEXT time Jerry and Stephen will hit a home run?

Well this year Dak is still under contract. Next year the Franchise tag is ~ 25 million. So that is one option.
I would let him play out his contract. If he plays great again pay him next year.
Why pay him a year early?

 

[dckid]

Like everything else, that never occurred to him. The thinking has been shallow from the start.

Just answered it genius

 

[Rockport]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...om&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

Great article talking about the QB trap that the Vikings fell into last off season. Sounds a heck of a lot like the situation we are headed towards with Dak.

The Vikings flew straight into the pitcher plant with Cousins by paying a premium for a journeyman whose only hope for an MVP season comes from being surrounded by a superteam.

Just because the market says $30 million for your QB who is hitting Free agency at the right time doesn't mean he is Brees, Wilson, Rodgers, Luck.
Dak is an average starter. You can win with him, he won't kill you with a 5 turnover game. I never expect him to carry this team because I know what to expect. He has a solid floor and a low celing. Not someone I want to pay 30 million a year for.
All the Dak lovers can spin doctor this all day, but if you are actually honest with yourself. Dak is not an elite QB, and I am not insulting him. He is what he is. A good QB who should be paid fairly. To me that number is what Foles is getting in Jacksonville.

Yet another crap on Dak thread.

 

[Clarkson]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...om&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

Great article talking about the QB trap that the Vikings fell into last off season. Sounds a heck of a lot like the situation we are headed towards with Dak.

The Vikings flew straight into the pitcher plant with Cousins by paying a premium for a journeyman whose only hope for an MVP season comes from being surrounded by a superteam.

Just because the market says $30 million for your QB who is hitting Free agency at the right time doesn't mean he is Brees, Wilson, Rodgers, Luck.
Dak is an average starter. You can win with him, he won't kill you with a 5 turnover game. I never expect him to carry this team because I know what to expect. He has a solid floor and a low celing. Not someone I want to pay 30 million a year for.
All the Dak lovers can spin doctor this all day, but if you are actually honest with yourself. Dak is not an elite QB, and I am not insulting him. He is what he is. A good QB who should be paid fairly. To me that number is what Foles is getting in Jacksonville.

Dak wasn't surrounded by a super team last year and played well once he got an actual WR.

 

[dckid]

Nobody ever claimed he was Top 5. Try using your Strawman on someone who doesn't know better. I do.

That's right you have not really said anything. You just want to pay him because he is a free agent and you think he deserves 30 million a year because that is what QB's make.

Again, save your poor, uninformed advice and numbers. It's more "fantasy nonsense" that began since this thread started.

How is that a fantasy number? Foles actually got $22 million a year.

 

[Rockport]

Well this year Dak is still under contract. Next year the Franchise tag is ~ 25 million. So that is one option.
I would let him play out his contract. If he plays great again pay him next year.
Why pay him a year early?

 

[Stash]

How is that a fantasy number? Foles actually got $22 million a year.

You're living in a fantasy world if you think there's any way he or his agent would ever accept it. Don't waste anyone's time. You either pay him or you let him go in two years. Those are your two options. Not some "Madden Football" franchise mode numbers.