Question for Hostile (& anyone else in the know) about the Roy Willy Trade

[burmafrd]

Some people whining about the RW trade hurting us now are just plain STUPID. Its not like Galloway where we gave up 2 #1s and had great needs in several areas. We would not have used that pick on an O lineman, unlike some idiots think.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

This is what most definitely surprises me the most.

In theory, he's a perfect compliment to Austin. Long possession receiver, usually with good hands, good leaping ability. Able to make plays while the ball is in the air. Not a burner, but can get behind you with the long stride.

Maybe the spotlight of Dallas is a bit much for him? I dont know, the guy has talent, but he's playing with zero confidence right now, and I hope he regains it.

He really needs to embrace his role as a possesion reciever. If he can be what Keyshawn Johnson was for the majority of his career after he left NY, I'd be happy.

 

[BehindEnemyLinez]

11 definitely has the talent and I think that he'll become the Mike Jenkins of the Zone next season-meaning that he'll go from being hated to loved with his improved play! As long as Romo stays protected (c'mon O-line ) I think he'll have another career year chucking the ball around to our vast array of weapons...and this time Roy will put up the yards to go along w/ the TDs with Miles drawing plenty of attention on the opposite side.

 

[The Great Number 8]

If it was towards the end of his deal and it would keep him in Dallas I think he probably would. Don't see the need to ask it of him at this point.

I think it is vital to this team that Tony and Roy figure out what is wrong. If they do, look out. Anyone who says the guy is not talented is blind. He clearly is. Tony doesn't look for him sometimes. I don't know why. It is probably not a conscious thought.

I really don't see the trade as the end of the world that some people do. Or even a continuation of Joey Galloway errors. I do think Jerry paid too much. Always have. But why cry over spilled milk? I didn't when we got Joey and I won't now.

No guts, no glory. If he simply does not work out, move on. I have no issue with that. Right now I'd say he provided 7 TDs and that isn't bad. In our Super Bowl years Harper did that. People are too hung up on the contract or the trade. I'm concerned about the chemistry.

He looks incredibly talented but it seems like he's not where he's suppose to be. From what it looks like to me (because neither I nor any of us really know the answer) Tony can't trust him to run the right route so he gets the 3rd look maybe the 4th after Austin, Witten and Crayton. Especially after the drop against New Orleans late in that game. That's Roy's play - a slant and using his size and strength to catch that kind of throw. But if he can't make that play, they have almost no use for him. He certainly seems talented enough to make that kind of play, but after he dropped that one, we all knew that he wasn't going to be the first choice on any play the rest of the year. At the beginning I thought he could be an awesome possession receiver catching first downs, but I'm not sure he has the toughness or quickness for that assignment.

For a guy as fast and talented as he is, he doesn't seem to get a lot of seperation. I believe that in the Vikings game, the reason he didn't see the ball was Tony barely had time to find the first target, let alone move through his progressions. Since he's never first choice, they were never going to get him the ball. In my opinion, it's more mental than anything right now - Garrett/Romo don't seem to trust him and he's done nothing to earn it.

 

[dwdj75]

Some people whining about the RW trade hurting us now are just plain STUPID. Its not like Galloway where we gave up 2 #1s and had great needs in several areas. We would not have used that pick on an O lineman, unlike some idiots think.

Galloway trade was by far the worst trade in Cowboys history.

Guy only played one quarter, I believe, before getting injured and lost for the year his first year here. Then his best year here, two years later, was for 908 yards with only 6 TDs.

We gave up less and so far had, imho, better production from Williams in this trade.

People who call the Wiliams trade the worst in Cowboys history is woefully ignorant.

 

[TheDude]

The guy had 7 TDs, caught several passes, had about 400+ yds, and was one helluva blocker downfield. Sure he is making a lot of money for the stats he provided.....but let's say Austin and Roy switched their stats....Roy would be living up to his contract and Austin would be a solid contributor on a cheap contract. IMO, the money spent on both WRs combined meets the kind of production I can live with....even if it was opposite of what we were hoping.

I see Roy busting his hump this offseason to maximize his chemistry and efficiency in this offense. If Roy can simply double his receptions and yards next season, while keeping his TDs about 7-10, our passing offense should be super scary.

This is the thinking that kills this team. The answer was that Austin was underutilized and the coaches didn't give him the opportuntity to take over Crayton spot in 2007 or 2008. If you have a ffranchse QB, he should be able to make the WRs better (See Manning>Garcon>Collie, Brady>Edelman, etc). Sure, salary wise it was a wash this year if you flipped the stats, but the bigger picture is NOW you have to pay Austin like #1, You gave up 2 picks last year that could have garned Harvin and OL help, etc.

The biggest problem I have with the team is its propencity to not play young guys and stick with older vets (and then overpay to keep them). Look at how Free played, likely overpaid for Flozell and Colombo. Look at Felix and Choice and their underutilization as coaches defer to an injured Barber in 2008 and 2009 based on salary. Look at Ogletree, look at Spencer and Ellis (imagine if spencer came on in late 2008 like late 2009).

Roy was a knee-jerk reaction to take away double coverage from TO to help strech the field when the answer was sitting on the bench since 2006. Now you lose on 2 draft picks and are strapped at the WR position if/when the cap comes back as you are paying 2 #1s. All the while, Ogletree is being underutilized and that type of WR is sorely lacking (quick, fast, smaller, etc).

The turnover of vets and rosters, I believe, keeps everyone on their game more consistently. Now when a vet gets a contract in Dallas, there is no worry about losing playing time, no worry about being cut and as long as they ramp it up in a contract year they get extended.

There is a happy medium between Philly and NE and Dallas.

You can say hindsight is 20/20 with Austin, but if you remember the hype 2008 was how he lit up Ttraining Camp. Then, he smoked GB in week 3, then hardly played against Wash through rest of the year. Coaches are paid to see and use this potential. HEre we get talent and then defer to a contract

 

[Bob Sacamano]

The guy had 7 TDs, caught several passes, had about 400+ yds, and was one helluva blocker downfield. Sure he is making a lot of money for the stats he provided.....but let's say Austin and Roy switched their stats....Roy would be living up to his contract and Austin would be a solid contributor on a cheap contract. IMO, the money spent on both WRs combined meets the kind of production I can live with....even if it was opposite of what we were hoping.

I see Roy busting his hump this offseason to maximize his chemistry and efficiency in this offense. If Roy can simply double his receptions and yards next season, while keeping his TDs about 7-10, our passing offense should be super scary.

 

[zrinkill]

Simple answer is Jerry fell in love with Roy while he was in college and then ended up overpaying once again for a veteran WR. And the main reason for that is because we have only drafted one WR in either of the first two rounds since 1993. You ignore positions like this long enough you tend to get desperate and make bad decisions.

You'd think he would've learned his lessson with J. Galloway, but seeing how Jerry is just a fantasy league GM with a real team, it's really no big surprise to see him fall for it again.

Hmmm

Question for Hostile (& anyone else in the know)

Pay attention next time.

 

[SMCowboy]

This is the thinking that kills this team. The answer was that Austin was underutilized and the coaches didn't give him the opportuntity to take over Crayton spot in 2007 or 2008. If you have a ffranchse QB, he should be able to make the WRs better (See Manning>Garcon>Collie, Brady>Edelman, etc). Sure, salary wise it was a wash this year if you flipped the stats, but the bigger picture is NOW you have to pay Austin like #1, You gave up 2 picks last year that could have garned Harvin and OL help, etc.

The biggest problem I have with the team is its propencity to not play young guys and stick with older vets (and then overpay to keep them). Look at how Free played, likely overpaid for Flozell and Colombo. Look at Felix and Choice and their underutilization as coaches defer to an injured Barber in 2008 and 2009 based on salary. Look at Ogletree, look at Spencer and Ellis (imagine if spencer came on in late 2008 like late 2009).

Roy was a knee-jerk reaction to take away double coverage from TO to help strech the field when the answer was sitting on the bench since 2006. Now you lose on 2 draft picks and are strapped at the WR position if/when the cap comes back as you are paying 2 #1s. All the while, Ogletree is being underutilized and that type of WR is sorely lacking (quick, fast, smaller, etc).

The turnover of vets and rosters, I believe, keeps everyone on their game more consistently. Now when a vet gets a contract in Dallas, there is no worry about losing playing time, no worry about being cut and as long as they ramp it up in a contract year they get extended.

There is a happy medium between Philly and NE and Dallas.

You can say hindsight is 20/20 with Austin, but if you remember the hype 2008 was how he lit up Ttraining Camp. Then, he smoked GB in week 3, then hardly played against Wash through rest of the year. Coaches are paid to see and use this potential. HEre we get talent and then defer to a contract

You have no idea what you are ranting about. The reason that we didn't see more of Austin before this year was that he couldn't stay healthy the previous two seasons. The hype in 2008 about training camp was limited because at the end of training camp he hurt his knee, and then again in November he hurt his knee again.

 

[yimyammer]

maybe I misread the OPs intent...but my question has always been, did our pro scouts give the thumbs up. did coaches from the lions and/or other teams give the thumbs up? Was Jerry strictly working off of college highlights and the scouting report the cowboys had of him coming out of college. Because he was injured and overweight when we got him....basically admited he never lifted weights much, also, you do not become a lazy route runner overnight. So this is why I DOUBT Jerry worked with ANYONE RELIABLE on this trade.

This is largely the point of my post. I'd love to know the behind the scenes machinations of how this trade was evaluated and made.

Being this far off on a player thats been in the league for 4 years is confounding to me and makes me think good due deligence was not done or properly considered prior to this trade.

Yes, it's possible that he was evaluated through a fine tooth comb, but I think those odds are pretty low

 

[Hostile]

The guy had 7 TDs, caught several passes, had about 400+ yds, and was one helluva blocker downfield. Sure he is making a lot of money for the stats he provided.....but let's say Austin and Roy switched their stats....Roy would be living up to his contract and Austin would be a solid contributor on a cheap contract. IMO, the money spent on both WRs combined meets the kind of production I can live with....even if it was opposite of what we were hoping.

I see Roy busting his hump this offseason to maximize his chemistry and efficiency in this offense. If Roy can simply double his receptions and yards next season, while keeping his TDs about 7-10, our passing offense should be super scary.

I knew what would happen as soon as I saw that. I knew one of three guys was likely to have a comment and I had a pretty good idea which one it would be. It's a shame some people put more importance on being fools than they do learning the game.

 

[Rampage]

here we go again.....

 

[TheDude]

You have no idea what you are ranting about. The reason that we didn't see more of Austin before this year was that he couldn't stay healthy the previous two seasons. The hype in 2008 about training camp was limited because at the end of training camp he hurt his knee, and then again in November he hurt his knee again.

I have no idea why Austin didn't start the first 4 games of 2009 or played more 08. I have no idea why Felix wasn't used more, or Spencer. You're right.

We never defer to guys on contract and overpay for vets (Hamlin, Flozell, et al). I apologize

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

Hmmm



Pay attention next time.

The poor guy is a glutton for abuse and embarrassment.

 

[Bach]

Hmmm

Pay attention next time.

The poor guy is a glutton for abuse and embarrassment.

Isn't that cute, the obsession twins.


And as for those in the know, hmmm:

So my guess is that Ciskowski's staff, Stephen and Jerry were equal workers on this deal.

 

[yimyammer]

Isn't that cute, the obsession twins.


And as for those in the know, hmmm:

I guess these guy were referring to me, but I don't get their point, what was it?

 

[Maikeru-sama]

Bach, your signature is pretty hilarious.

I've been kinda asking myself the same question the week or so .

[/CARRY ON]

 

[zrinkill]

I guess these guy were referring to me, but I don't get their point, what was it?

I was letting Bach know that you were looking for serious answers.

He just used the question as an opportunity to complain about Jerry ....... he is a one trick pony

 

[Bleu Star]

Crap!! My bad, I thought I was posting in the Cowboys Fan Zone.

Can a mod move this for me?

 

[Bleu Star]

IMO, Jerry blinked. He got bluffed on a poker hand. Detroit would have folded first. He felt he couldn't wait.

I agree. Sadly so... What a freaking monumental blink....... Oh. That's right we're supposed to be looking forward. Let me save face.

I hope Roy Williams lives up to his potential and becomes one with Tony Romo next year.