Question for Hostile (& anyone else in the know) about the Roy Willy Trade

[yimyammer]

Hostile, from the various posts I've read of yours, it sounds like you may have some contacts in the league that may shed better light on a variety of subjects than what most of us are able to glean from TV and the internet and general observation.

My questions is what process do you think occured for evaluating the Roy Williams trade and who was involved in deciding what to pay for Roy in terms so of compensation and draft picks?

I've always assumed it was a Jerry reach (based on prior moves of his and his promise to be responsible for everything from jocks to socks), but in reality I have no idea how this decision was made.

I have noticed that Jerry does listen to his people and when they want something or someone he agrees with, he's been great about making it happen.

Based on the reports I heard that Red Jesus was the one that convinced Jerry we needed to keep Brad johnson as our backup QB in 08', I've began to wonder if the Roy deal could have possibly been initiated by Garrett and perhaps I've put too much blame on Jerry.

What are your thoughts on this subject?

***NOTE - the point of this thread is not to rehash all the frustation most of us have about Roy, but to try and discover what the process the organization went through in makomg a decision like this***

 

[Cowboy Brian]

How does this relate to the draft.

 

[yimyammer]

Crap!! My bad, I thought I was posting in the Cowboys Fan Zone.

Can a mod move this for me?

 

[Cover 2]

Crap!! My bad, I thought I was posting in the Cowboys Fan Zone.

Can a mod move this for me?

:laugh2:

 

[Hostile]

Hostile, from the various posts I've read of yours, it sounds like you may have some contacts in the league that may shed better light on a variety of subjects than what most of us are able to glean from TV and the internet and general observation.

My questions is what process do you think occured for evaluating the Roy Williams trade and who was involved in deciding what to pay for Roy in terms so of compensation and draft picks?

I've always assumed it was a Jerry reach (based on prior moves of his and his promise to be responsible for everything from jocks to socks), but in reality I have no idea how this decision was made.

I have noticed that Jerry does listen to his people and when they want something or someone he agrees with, he's been great about making it happen.

Based on the reports I heard that Red Jesus was the one that convinced Jerry we needed to keep Brad johnson as our backup QB in 08', I've began to wonder if the Roy deal could have possibly been initiated by Garrett and perhaps I've put too much blame on Jerry.

What are your thoughts on this subject?

***NOTE - the point of this thread is not to rehash all the frustation most of us have about Roy, but to try and discover what the process the organization went through in makomg a decision like this***

Well, I hope this can help. Back in September 2007 I got a tip that Roy Williams was wanting to come to Dallas. This team is his passion, his love as a kid. His dream.

His contract was going to end in 2008 and he had basically gone to Detroit and told them that he either wanted to be traded to Dallas or to become a FA.

Detroit of course, had the power to Franchise Williams. The problem they had was that they had so much money tied up in WR after the huge bonus they paid Calvin Johnson that they could not afford to do that.

Thus began a high stakes poker game between Detroit and Jerry. Both sides kept denying interest in the press. I kept telling people that was not true, there was interest.

Ultimately I think Jerry saw Roy as 1 of 2 things. A chance to rid the team of Owens and/or a missing piece to the puzzle. Detroit asked for a pair of 1s. Jerry offered a 1 and a 5. They met in the middle and swapped a 6 for a 7.

IMO, Jerry blinked. He got bluffed on a poker hand. Detroit would have folded first. He felt he couldn't wait.

There was no way he could have foreseen Tony's injury and I think the lack of chemistry between the two surprises everyone, especially Tony and Roy. They genuinely like and respect each other but it has not fully clicked.

 

[Cover 2]

Well, I hope this can help. Back in September 2007 I got a tip that Roy Williams was wanting to come to Dallas. This team is his passion, his love as a kid. His dream.

His contract was going to end in 2008 and he had basically gone to Detroit and told them that he either wanted to be traded to Dallas or to become a FA.

Detroit of course, had the power to Franchise Williams. The problem they had was that they had so much money tied up in WR after the huge bonus they paid Calvin Johnson that they could not afford to do that.

Thus began a high stakes poker game between Detroit and Jerry. Both sides kept denying interest in the press. I kept telling people that was not true, there was interest.

Ultimately I think Jerry saw Roy as 1 of 2 things. A chance to rid the team of Owens and/or a missing piece to the puzzle. Detroit asked for a pair of 1s. Jerry offered a 1 and 5. They met in the middle and swapped a 6 for a 7.

IMO, Jerry blinked. He got bluffed on a poker hand. Detroit would have folded first. He felt he couldn't wait.

There was no way he could have foreseen Tony's injury and I think the lack of chemistry between the two surprises everyone, especially Tony and Roy. They genuinely like and respect each other but it has not fully clicked.

Roy says all the right things in the press and I feel he's sincere. Have you heard anything indicating otherwise?

 

[Hostile]

Roy says all the right things in the press and I feel he's sincere. Have you heard anything indicating otherwise?

No, he is genuinely liked by the whole team and coaches. The drive is there. When talent and drive meet there can be very real chemistry. I think all want it and will fight for it.

 

[yimyammer]

Well, I hope this can help. Back in September 2007 I got a tip that Roy Williams was wanting to come to Dallas. This team is his passion, his love as a kid. His dream.

His contract was going to end in 2008 and he had basically gone to Detroit and told them that he either wanted to be traded to Dallas or to become a FA.

Detroit of course, had the power to Franchise Williams. The problem they had was that they had so much money tied up in WR after the huge bonus they paid Calvin Johnson that they could not afford to do that.

Thus began a high stakes poker game between Detroit and Jerry. Both sides kept denying interest in the press. I kept telling people that was not true, there was interest.

Ultimately I think Jerry saw Roy as one of 2 things. A chance to rid the team of Owens and/or a missing piece to the puzzle. Detroit asked for a pair of 1s. Jerry offered a 1 and 5. They met in the middle and swapped a 6 for a 7.

IMO, Jerry blinked. He got bluffed on a poker hand. Detroit would have folded first. He felt he couldn't wait.

There was no way he could have foreseen Tony's injury and I think the lack of chemistry between the two surprises everyone, especially Tony and Roy. They genuinely like and respect each other but it has not fully clicked.

Good stuff thanks. So this was strictly a Jerry thing?

Doesn't it seem like the scouts should have seen issues with Roy after reviewing game field of Detroit?

I have a hard time believing Roy was great in Detriot and then all of a sudden came to Dallas and started sucking, surely there were issues about Roy apparent in the game film that should have alerted jerry this trade was not worth the risk.

I guess my belief that Jerry made a panic move and overvalued Roy is what actually happened...puke!

 

[Hostile]

Good stuff thanks. So this was strictly a Jerry thing?

Doesn't it seem like the scouts should have seen issues with Roy after reviewing game field of Detroit?

I have a hard time believing Roy was great in Detriot and then all of a sudden came to Dallas and started sucking, surely there were issues about Roy apparent in the game film that should have alerted jerry this trade was not worth the risk.

I guess my belief that Jerry made a panic move and overvalued Roy is what actually happened...puke!

I think the whole team was behind the action. The coaching staff is probably the exception. They cannot stop focusing on the season at hand on a maybe. That is why we should believe coaches when they say they have no input on rumors of incoming players. They don't. They give the Scouting Department and GM their thought on implementation and then they put the thoughts aside and get back to work.

So my guess is that Ciskowski's staff, Stephen and Jerry were equal workers on this deal.

 

[Cowboy Brian]

Question for Hostile: Why does Roy W. suck so much that lining up 10 people would be beneficial over putting him on the field?

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Newy Scruggs swore on his radio show that Garrett pushed for RW last year because he said it would free up TO from so much double coverage.

Don't kill the messenger, I'm just repeating what he said.

 

[Hostile]

Question for Hostile: Why does Roy W. suck so much that lining up 10 people would be beneficial over putting him on the field?

You and I do not really know each other. I want to assure you that from now on I will completely ignore baited questions. If you truly want to know something ask, but this tactic will be completely ignored. It is a waste of my time and I have little respect for it.

 

[Cowboy Brian]

You and I do not really know each other. I want to assure you that from now on I will completely ignore baited questions. If you truly want to know something ask, but this tactic will be completely ignored. It is a waste of my time and I have little respect for it.

Sorry Hostile was not trying to be rude-

 

[NeonNinja]

Question for Hostile: Why does Roy W. suck so much that lining up 10 people would be beneficial over putting him on the field?

Good luck getting a stupid question like that answered.

 

[Bach]

Simple answer is Jerry fell in love with Roy while he was in college and then ended up overpaying once again for a veteran WR. And the main reason for that is because we have only drafted one WR in either of the first two rounds since 1993. You ignore positions like this long enough you tend to get desperate and make bad decisions.

You'd think he would've learned his lessson with J. Galloway, but seeing how Jerry is just a fantasy league GM with a real team, it's really no big surprise to see him fall for it again.

 

[yimyammer]

I think the whole team was behind the action. The coaching staff is probably the exception. They cannot stop focusing on the season at hand on a maybe. That is why we should believe coaches when they say they have no input on rumors of incoming players. They don't. They give the Scouting Department and GM their thought on implementation and then they put the thoughts aside and get back to work.

So my guess is that Ciskowski's staff, Stephen and Jerry were equal workers on this deal.

I'm not sure what's better: Jerry making the call on his own or doing it with the full support and recommendation of the scouting department. At least with the former, we can hope that Jerry has finally gotten sick of these types of mistakes and changes his ways.

I like Roy and hope somehow things can work out on some level.

I just fear this mistake may cost this team its ability to get to the Super Bowl because I think our O-Line is our biggest weakness. We could have drafted Michael Oher and a receiver with the 3rd that could have contributed as much as Roy has.

Who knows if they would have made good use of the draft picks they gave up, but I think being good in the trenches can cover up for a lack of talent elsewhere. Given Romo's age, I fear we may not have time to reconstruct the line before his window starts to close or closes faster because he gets hurt.

I hope I'm wrong, perhaps some of our backup linemen will work out...fingers crossed

 

[Rampage]

Simple answer is Jerry fell in love with Roy while he was in college and then ended up overpaying once again for a veteran WR. And the main reason for that is because we have only drafted one WR in either of the first two rounds since 1993. You ignore positions like this long enough you tend to get desperate and make bad decisions.

You'd think he would've learned his lessson with J. Galloway, but seeing how Jerry is just a fantasy league GM with a real team, it's really no big surprise to see him fall for it again.

http://i186.***BLOCKED***/albums/x188/izzypump/RicFlair13.gif

 

[Eskimo]

I'm not sure what's better: Jerry making the call on his own or doing it with the full support and recommendation of the scouting department. At least with the former, we can hope that Jerry has finally gotten sick of these types of mistakes and changes his ways.

I like Roy and hope somehow things can work out on some level.

I just fear this mistake may cost this team its ability to get to the Super Bowl because I think our O-Line is our biggest weakness. We could have drafted Michael Oher and a receiver with the 3rd that could have contributed as much as Roy has.

Who knows if they would have made good use of the draft picks they gave up, but I think being good in the trenches can cover up for a lack of talent elsewhere. Given Romo's age, I fear we may not have time to reconstruct the line before his window starts to close or closes faster because he gets hurt.

I hope I'm wrong, perhaps some of our backup linemen will work out...fingers crossed

This is the point I trade to make til I was blue in the face at the time of the trade. The problem we were having in 2008 wasn't so much that TO's skills had suddenly eroded. It was that our OL couldn't run block effectively against the other team even when they were play two safeties deep and doubling TO. This led us into a situation where Romo was often throwing into double coverage when we were in 3rd and long.

Jerry thought the solution was to upgrade Crayton. The reality was the problem was the OL. It started with an inability to run block, then trouble in blitz pickup and finally they now are caving into better DLs in the league in both run and pass blocking - this is why the Giants and Vikings whipped us even though their secondaries are terrible. It didn't matter because of how much they dominated the game in the trenches.

Now we still haven't fixed the problem, we sacrificed a lot of cap dollars to bring in RW (will not matter if cap doesn't come back), we missed a golden opportunity to draft our RT of the future in Oher and we now need to replace both OTs now which may lead to us reaching and missing in the draft as Jerry is often wont to do in such situations.

If Jerry is truly sorry he will find a way to buy himself a player and eat the Roy contract but this is only possible without a salary cap.

I don't think the window has closed on winning a SB with Romo. But the scouting department needs to have hit on some of these picks in the 2009 draft (especially Brewster and to a lesser extent Jwill, Bwill and Hodge) that redshirted and they need to hit some home runs in this draft to improve the OL.

Jerry also needs to show the courage to can the RW experiment after this year if it doesn't turn around. He just doesn't look fast or strong our there anymore. His hands have disappeared and his routes are very sloppy. He doesn't seem to generate much separation when challenged and he can't catch the ball in tight quarters. I really hope he is working hard with coach Sherman this offseason.

 

[rojan]

Really good thread!!!

To add to the question:

I remember that off season that there were a couple WR's on the "trade block". Larry was re-working his contract and it seem like he might be traded to the Eagles and Boldin was also looking for a trade because of his contract. I think Torry Holts name was thrown around also along with Roy.

My question is, did the cowboys ever consider any other receiver to trade for or was it Roy or no one?

 

[NextGenBoys]

There was no way he could have foreseen Tony's injury and I think the lack of chemistry between the two surprises everyone, especially Tony and Roy. They genuinely like and respect each other but it has not fully clicked.

This is what most definitely surprises me the most.

In theory, he's a perfect compliment to Austin. Long possession receiver, usually with good hands, good leaping ability. Able to make plays while the ball is in the air. Not a burner, but can get behind you with the long stride.

Maybe the spotlight of Dallas is a bit much for him? I dont know, the guy has talent, but he's playing with zero confidence right now, and I hope he regains it.