Quick Brugler nugget on drafting QBs

Jarntt

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,941
Reaction score
6,553
I agree but it doesn't matter coz the point of drafting a franchise QB to hit or miss.......more miss than hit.
Of the top 10 highest paid QBs (so guys two got a big 2nd (or 3rd) deal here is where they were drafted:
1st round: 9
2nd Round: 1
other rounds: zero

Of the top 20 highest paid QBs (so guys two got a big 2nd (or 3rd) deal here is where they were drafted:
1st round: 15
2nd Round: 3
4th round: 2

It's clear that the best QBs were on average taken earlier in the draft and most of these guys were top 5 or 10 overall
 

Hawkeye0202

Well-Known Member
Messages
25,819
Reaction score
46,948
Of the top 10 highest paid QBs (so guys two got a big 2nd (or 3rd) deal here is where they were drafted:
1st round: 9
2nd Round: 1
other rounds: zero

Of the top 20 highest paid QBs (so guys two got a big 2nd (or 3rd) deal here is where they were drafted:
1st round: 15
2nd Round: 3
4th round: 2

It's clear that the best QBs were on average taken earlier in the draft and most of these guys were top 5 or 10 overall
I agree with this 100% but how many years are covering here 15, 20? How many QBs were drafted in the 1st round over that period time that did not receive big 2nd contract offers?
 

gtb1943

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,269
Reaction score
6,495
I agree with this 100% but how many years are covering here 15, 20? How many QBs were drafted in the 1st round over that period time that did not receive big 2nd contract offers?
It all comes down to how much you want to win a championship. IF you really want to, you have to risk first rd QBs
 

Jarntt

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,941
Reaction score
6,553
I agree with this 100% but how many years are covering here 15, 20? How many QBs were drafted in the 1st round over that period time that did not receive big 2nd contract offers?
I don't disagree with you on that point. My point is more how rare it is to get a QB outside of the early picks that does become a top QB. Which to me makes it the way to go for a stud QB. There are always outliers who excel and busts just like every other position
 

Hawkeye0202

Well-Known Member
Messages
25,819
Reaction score
46,948
It all comes down to how much you want to win a championship. IF you really want to, you have to risk first rd QBs
I have no problem with drafting 1st round QBs........ it's just more complicated than some wanna see or admit. For example.....your best shot is usually a top-10 guy. To get him means a losing record or using future capital to move into the top 10. Since we are expecting the Super Bowl what are the odds of a rookie getting there within his first 3 years? Pretty low I'm sure......

IMO you have a fairly good chance with excellent coaching and a strong defense ( see 49er/Shanahan ).
Even then you have to ask yourself if your QB is a product of talent or a system. In other words, would you pay Purdy $60M+ today?
 

Hawkeye0202

Well-Known Member
Messages
25,819
Reaction score
46,948
I don't disagree with you on that point. My point is more how rare it is to get a QB outside of the early picks that does become a top QB. Which to me makes it the way to go for a stud QB. There are always outliers who excel and busts just like every other position
I agree with this.......
I'm almost inclined to go back to the old-school method when rookie QBs sat for at least a year before starting. I think more times than not, these kids are thrown into the fire out of the gate and they aren't mentally ready for the pressure. They start losing their confidence, coaches start turning on them and they never recover. There is an article just posted where Tua lit into Brian Flores, the Dolphins HC his first 2 years for not having patience with him. Said it almost cost him his career. He credits McDaniel with saving his career.
 

js66

Member
Messages
60
Reaction score
46
This argument... that we should take late round quarterbacks... has always bothered me. I've always thought late round QB's are at best a waste of draft capital and at worst franchise stalling wastes of time. It always bothered me when a team would draft a QB 4th round or later.

I've done this in the past and went back to do this again. Here is a list of the guys from the last 10 draft classes that were drafted in the 3rd round or later. I hated the 4th round QB's but thought I might be able to improve this steaming piling of garbage by adding the 3rd round.

Here we go....

2024 – Spencer Ratler, Jordan Travis, Joe Milton, Devin Leary, Michael Prat
Looks Like – 0-5 I realize it's tough to judge the 2024 class, and we'll see, but I don't see a stellar signal caller there. No one has torn up there camp, but I also understand the argument for not including this class as well.

2023 – Hendon Hooker, Jake Haener, Stetson Bennet, Aiden O’Connell, Clayton Tune, Dorian Thompson-Robinson, Sean Clifford, Jaren Hall, Tanner McKee, Max Duggan
Looks like 0-10

2022
– Kenny Pickett, Desmond Ritter, Malik Willis, Matt Corral, Bailey Zappe, Sam Howell, Chris Oladokun, Skylar Thompson, Brock Purdy
Looks like 1-8

2021
– Kellen Mond, Davis Mills, Ian Book, Sam Ehlinger
Looks like 0-4

2020
- Jacob Eason, James Morgan, Jake Fromm, Jake Luton, Cole McDonald, Ben DiNucci, Tommy Stevens, Nate Stanley
Looks like 0-8

2019
– Will Grier, Ryan Finley, Jarrett Stidham, Easton Stick, Clayton Thorson, Gardner Minshew, Trace McSorely
Looks like 0-7

2018
– Mason Rudolph, Kyle Lauletta, Mike White, Luke Falk, Tanner Lee, Danny Etling, Alex McGough, Logan Woodside
Looks like 0-8

2017
– Davis Webb, CJ Bethard, Joshua Dobbs, Nathan Peterman, Brad Kaaya, Chad Kelly
Looks like 0-6

2016
– Jacoby Brissett, Cody Kessler, Connor Cook, Dak Prescott, Cardale Jones, Kevin Hogan, Nate Sudfeld, Jake Rudock, Brandon Allen, Jeff Driskel, Brandon Doughty
Looks like 1-10

2015
– Garrett Grayson, Sean Mannion, Bryce Petty, Brett Hundley, Trevor Siemian
Looks like 0-5

To me this looks like out of 73 draft picks.... 2 may have worked out. Of those two "hit's" you get Dak and Brock Purdy. Both of these guys are constantly talked about getting replaced by better, more talented QB's. Both of these QB's have questions surrounding them if they can carry a team and how would they do with a weaker roster. IMO, these guys aren't top 10 QB's who are the reason for their teams success.

Just for giggles... lets add the 2nd round picks from the past 10 years.
Will Levis, Kyle Trask, Jalen Hurts, Drew Lock, Deshone Kizer, Christian Hackenberg
There are only 6. I'm not a fan of Jalen Hurts and think he is vastly overrated and carried by the rest of his roster.... but I can see a case for calling this 1-5.

I don't have any time to debate today.... but this tells me that for the past 10 years, of the 79 QB's taken second round or later the results are awful and that's putting it mildly. Even counting the second round, less than 4% of the time you hit on a QB... and when you "hit" it's Hurts, Purdy or Dak. A lot of people would only build a franchise around Hurts. There is a real argument that you are 1-78 the last 10 drafts when drafting 2nd round or later trying to get a "build your franchise around" elite QB.

2nd and later
3-79 = 3.80% hit rate

3rd and later
2-73 = 2.74%

5th round and later
1-42 = 2.38%

Ignoring Dak, Hurts and Purdy you'd be 0-76.

I don't have any time to debate today.... but I'm open to hearing about how drafting later round QB's is a great idea. I would love to come back here and read a well thought out explanation on why we need to do this. I just don't see any rational reason why it makes sense to draft late round quarterbacks other than the same old... but there is a chance you could draft Brady!
 

OGSixshooter

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,280
Reaction score
2,709
I said what I said. Packers was a fluke loss and he can't beat 49ers....what's the confusion?

And I agree if he can't beat San Fran he is useless for the playoff run. What's the confusion?

We don't know if Love and Packers don't have his number. What we do know is the 9ers have beaten Dak 3 times in a row. UNtil proven otherwise they have his number. Packers....until proven otherwise is a fluke.

Go take nap you still haven't recovered from that beaten yesterday lol.
"I said what I said" - it's not only a tautology but it constitutes another bang of the head on the steel door.

You ran bruh. Check the thread. Much like with Dak, you just "misremember" things and declare victory based on empty rhetoric like "MVP candidate".

No wonder you tell Dak to "get his money". Cause he ain't gonna get a ring and you ain't getting no shine off me. ;)
 

Proof

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,849
Reaction score
14,411
I think a lot of the QBs today, especially 1st rounders are thrown in the fire too fast and have problems with the pressure to win. Give me mid-tier vet for a couple of years while my young guy sits and learns. A guy like Geno or Mayfield or Carr can win some games, and maybe get you to the playoffs with strong defense and coaching.
those guys are all making 30-40 mil per year. add in the cost of a 1st rd qb and you're already back where you didn't want to be.
 

gtb1943

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,269
Reaction score
6,495
I have no problem with drafting 1st round QBs........ it's just more complicated than some wanna see or admit. For example.....your best shot is usually a top-10 guy. To get him means a losing record or using future capital to move into the top 10. Since we are expecting the Super Bowl what are the odds of a rookie getting there within his first 3 years? Pretty low I'm sure......

IMO you have a fairly good chance with excellent coaching and a strong defense ( see 49er/Shanahan ).
Even then you have to ask yourself if your QB is a product of talent or a system. In other words, would you pay Purdy $60M+ today?
I doubt even Purdy's agent thinks he can get that
But once again sometimes the brutal cold numbers do not lie
the best chance you have to win a SB is with a first rd QB
and the 49rs have gotten there twice with less than top quality QBs AND BOTH TIMES THEY LOST
 

TheMarathonContinues

Well-Known Member
Messages
83,503
Reaction score
76,340
"I said what I said" - it's not only a tautology but it constitutes another bang of the head on the steel door.

You ran bruh. Check the thread. Much like with Dak, you just "misremember" things and declare victory based on empty rhetoric like "MVP candidate".

No wonder you tell Dak to "get his money". Cause he ain't gonna get a ring and you ain't getting no shine off me. ;)
You’re delusional or a liar. Not sure yet.
 

Hawkeye0202

Well-Known Member
Messages
25,819
Reaction score
46,948
This argument... that we should take late round quarterbacks... has always bothered me. I've always thought late round QB's are at best a waste of draft capital and at worst franchise stalling wastes of time. It always bothered me when a team would draft a QB 4th round or later.

I've done this in the past and went back to do this again. Here is a list of the guys from the last 10 draft classes that were drafted in the 3rd round or later. I hated the 4th round QB's but thought I might be able to improve this steaming piling of garbage by adding the 3rd round.

Here we go....

2024 – Spencer Ratler, Jordan Travis, Joe Milton, Devin Leary, Michael Prat
Looks Like – 0-5 I realize it's tough to judge the 2024 class, and we'll see, but I don't see a stellar signal caller there. No one has torn up there camp, but I also understand the argument for not including this class as well.

2023 – Hendon Hooker, Jake Haener, Stetson Bennet, Aiden O’Connell, Clayton Tune, Dorian Thompson-Robinson, Sean Clifford, Jaren Hall, Tanner McKee, Max Duggan
Looks like 0-10

2022
– Kenny Pickett, Desmond Ritter, Malik Willis, Matt Corral, Bailey Zappe, Sam Howell, Chris Oladokun, Skylar Thompson, Brock Purdy
Looks like 1-8

2021
– Kellen Mond, Davis Mills, Ian Book, Sam Ehlinger
Looks like 0-4

2020
- Jacob Eason, James Morgan, Jake Fromm, Jake Luton, Cole McDonald, Ben DiNucci, Tommy Stevens, Nate Stanley
Looks like 0-8

2019
– Will Grier, Ryan Finley, Jarrett Stidham, Easton Stick, Clayton Thorson, Gardner Minshew, Trace McSorely
Looks like 0-7

2018
– Mason Rudolph, Kyle Lauletta, Mike White, Luke Falk, Tanner Lee, Danny Etling, Alex McGough, Logan Woodside
Looks like 0-8

2017
– Davis Webb, CJ Bethard, Joshua Dobbs, Nathan Peterman, Brad Kaaya, Chad Kelly
Looks like 0-6

2016
– Jacoby Brissett, Cody Kessler, Connor Cook, Dak Prescott, Cardale Jones, Kevin Hogan, Nate Sudfeld, Jake Rudock, Brandon Allen, Jeff Driskel, Brandon Doughty
Looks like 1-10

2015
– Garrett Grayson, Sean Mannion, Bryce Petty, Brett Hundley, Trevor Siemian
Looks like 0-5

To me this looks like out of 73 draft picks.... 2 may have worked out. Of those two "hit's" you get Dak and Brock Purdy. Both of these guys are constantly talked about getting replaced by better, more talented QB's. Both of these QB's have questions surrounding them if they can carry a team and how would they do with a weaker roster. IMO, these guys aren't top 10 QB's who are the reason for their teams success.

Just for giggles... lets add the 2nd round picks from the past 10 years.
Will Levis, Kyle Trask, Jalen Hurts, Drew Lock, Deshone Kizer, Christian Hackenberg
There are only 6. I'm not a fan of Jalen Hurts and think he is vastly overrated and carried by the rest of his roster.... but I can see a case for calling this 1-5.

I don't have any time to debate today.... but this tells me that for the past 10 years, of the 79 QB's taken second round or later the results are awful and that's putting it mildly. Even counting the second round, less than 4% of the time you hit on a QB... and when you "hit" it's Hurts, Purdy or Dak. A lot of people would only build a franchise around Hurts. There is a real argument that you are 1-78 the last 10 drafts when drafting 2nd round or later trying to get a "build your franchise around" elite QB.

2nd and later
3-79 = 3.80% hit rate

3rd and later
2-73 = 2.74%

5th round and later
1-42 = 2.38%

Ignoring Dak, Hurts and Purdy you'd be 0-76.

I don't have any time to debate today.... but I'm open to hearing about how drafting later round QB's is a great idea. I would love to come back here and read a well thought out explanation on why we need to do this. I just don't see any rational reason why it makes sense to draft late round quarterbacks other than the same old... but there is a chance you could draft Brady!
Good post.......this further shows how hard it is to replace an established vet via the draft.
 

gtb1943

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,269
Reaction score
6,495
Exactly........
reaching for need is a terrible strategy; it is well known but teams do it again and again with QBs
the vast majority of first rd busts are those that never deserved first rd grades in the first place
the most important feature of a Championship QB is what is between the ears; not how strong his arm is; how big he is; how well he can run.
 

js66

Member
Messages
60
Reaction score
46
Using the same timeframe as my last post, looking back to 2015 there have been 12 QB's to start in the SB.

Peyton Manning
Cam Newton
Tom Brady
Matt Ryan
Nick Foles
Jared Goff
Patrick Mahomes
Jimmy Garoppolo
Matt Stafford
Joe Burrow
Jalen Hurts
Brock Purdy

Of these 12 QB's

5/12 - Almost half of them, were a #1 pick overall pick
7/12 - Were drafted in the top 10 overall
10/12 - Were taken by the 90th pick (near the end of the 3rd round)

This data along with the data in my previous post tells me we need to be drafting QB at the top end of the 1st round. Possibly late first round if you feel really strongly about a kid that dropped for an off the field issue you are comfortable with or he has undeniable talent and there's something you're sure is correctable etc. Stop wasting draft capital in the 3rd/4th round or later on QB's.

You either hope and wait for an elite QB, former top 10 guy, that someone has given up on for whatever reason or you trade up and take your best shot in the draft. Is it dangerous? Can it fail?... yeah... you can stand pat and sit on your hands if you want, but those hands probably won't have shiny new Super Bowl rings on them any time soon.
 

jrumann59

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,017
Reaction score
8,770
I think most 1st Round QB are the way to go. The only thing the draft process does not take into account is the "prospects" head space. Most 1st rounders will have the measurable talents and probably good college stats which will buy them time whereas later drafted guys have things that were considered negatives in the measurables. Again none of that takes into account the head space. Only the truly great can marry top tier measurables with good head space. Brady had probably the best head space of any QB in generations and while not as physically talented as the top tier QBs he had enough when the head space and the body synced up he became the GOAT
 

MountaineerCowboy

Well-Known Member
Messages
29,401
Reaction score
72,915
Using the same timeframe as my last post, looking back to 2015 there have been 12 QB's to start in the SB.

Peyton Manning
Cam Newton
Tom Brady
Matt Ryan
Nick Foles
Jared Goff
Patrick Mahomes
Jimmy Garoppolo
Matt Stafford
Joe Burrow
Jalen Hurts
Brock Purdy

Of these 12 QB's

5/12 - Almost half of them, were a #1 pick overall pick
7/12 - Were drafted in the top 10 overall
10/12 - Were taken by the 90th pick (near the end of the 3rd round)

This data along with the data in my previous post tells me we need to be drafting QB at the top end of the 1st round. Possibly late first round if you feel really strongly about a kid that dropped for an off the field issue you are comfortable with or he has undeniable talent and there's something you're sure is correctable etc. Stop wasting draft capital in the 3rd/4th round or later on QB's.

You either hope and wait for an elite QB, former top 10 guy, that someone has given up on for whatever reason or you trade up and take your best shot in the draft. Is it dangerous? Can it fail?... yeah... you can stand pat and sit on your hands if you want, but those hands probably won't have shiny new Super Bowl rings on them any time soon.
You operate on facts. I like that.

Dak fans operate on their feels.
 
Top