"Agenda"?

Outlaw Heroes

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I'm getting a little tired of seeing the word "agenda" chucked around indiscriminately. Seems to me that a word that imports such negative connotations should be used more cautiously. So I think we should make clear precisely what does and does not constitute an agenda.

IMO, preferring one player over another needn't, in and of itself, constitute an "agenda". Seems to me that that's just part and parcel of what it is to be a fan. There are others on this board who might prefer Staubach to Aikman among our all-time great QBs, Emitt to TD among our all-time great RBs, Pearson to Irvin, etc. That's not an agenda. That's just having a favorite. It's a matter of taste, about which, I think most of us could agree, there is room for reasonable disagreement.

The preference for Romo over Henson, or vice-versa, is similar in my view. Neither has done anything to clearly distinguish himself from the other at this stage in their respective careers. One can argue about who "will be" better, but in the end those arguments will of necessity be conjectural in nature (just as an argument over whether TD's pure speed was more valuable than Emmitt's great vision would be) and when push comes to shove, we'll be talking once more about preference.

Nothing wrong with that. Preference is built into the very concept of fandom, inasmuch as being a fan of Team X is simply preferring that team to all others, for any number of reasons, many of which are pre-rational or even irrational.

There are some on these boards, however, whose support of one or the other of the young bucks has nothing to do with preference. Two in particular (they shall go nameless, since it requires no great imaginative leap to determine who they are) come to mind, though others are not blameless.

The one endorses one of the young QBs over the other as part of a general pattern of making predictions whose sole purpose is self-aggrandizement. When some of these predictions come true (most don't) the poster is quick to crow to anyone that will listen "HA! I told so!! If you had listened to me, you would have seen this coming all along". This has nothing to do with being a fan. It has everything to do with stroking one's own ego. Indeed, unlike true preference, which can accomodate respect (even like) for the object that is not preferred (for to prefer Aikman to Staubach is not to dislike or disrespect Staubach; one can quite consistently think very highly of him), when one's ego is at stake victory can only come at the expense at the object that is not preferred. Success means not only that one's preferred QB must do well; it means that the other QB must fail. Indeed, that's the prediction in the first place: not that "QB X will do great", but that "QB Y will be a bust."

It's not hard to see how this is hostile to the best interests of the team. Hoping fervently for the failure of a team's prospects couldn't be more contrary to the team's best interests. And that, it seems to me, is the defining feature of having an "agenda": one's position is not driven by anything relating to, or even consistent with, team support. Instead, it's driven by personal interests (in self-aggrandizement or whatever).

Which brings us to the second poster. His agenda is far less complicated. He just loves to stir the pot (not to use a more descriptive term for what he's stirring). On other boards he would be called a "troll", inasmuch his "pot stirring" is primarily directed at inciting anger. While this poster's motives are less complicated, he is no less agenda-driven. Again, his position has nothing to do with preference of one player over another. He just gets off on getting people riled up. Which is why, like the first guy, his position is less about QB X doing well than it is about QB Y failing. After all, nobody would get riled up about a statement to the effect that "QB X is great." But plenty of people -- all those who prefer QB Y -- will get worked up when he comments (without foundation, of course, since it's his intent to get a reaction rather than persuade) "QB Y is a bust". And if it turns out that he's right, and QB Y fails, he'll have a field day knowing that it's really chapping the *** of those that resisted his outrageous claims all along.

That, once more, is the very definition of agenda, as is evidenced by the fact that it subverts the team's interest in seeing QB Y do well to his own interest in getting under other people's skin.

So let's be clear, going forward, about exactly who is and who is not pushing an agenda. I'm a big Henson supporter. But I'm not pushing an agenda. Want proof? You won't find me slaggin Romo, since I'd be almost as happy if he were to turn into our next great Cowboys QB.
 

THUMPER

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Good post OH. :yourock: It is nice to see a little reality and reason written once in a while.
 

Rack

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I'm getting a little tired of seeing the word "agenda" chucked around indiscriminately.


If you think there aren't several posters here that DO have an agenda (about one thing or another) then you are in complete denial. And if there weren't anyone here with agendas then you wouldn't see the word around here, would you?


Why start a thread/post bashing one of our own QBs performances and praising another when it's clear the one being bashed had the better game? Agenda.

And it works both ways. There's Henson people that bash into Romo's performance or supposed lack of arm strength cuz of their agenda. There's Romo people that say "Henson doesn't have the mind for the game" cuz of their agendas. It's all agendas.


My only "Agenda" is the dallas cowboys winning superbowl. I don't care if the Name on the back of the jersey of our starting QB is Romo, Henson, Bledsoe, or whoever, as long as that person is good enough to get us to the big game. If Romo ends up being our future and wins a superbowl, should the Henson people be upset about it? If they would get upset with that they should stick their hand in a blender and hit "Frappe". Same for the Romo supporters if Henson were to win a superbowl.


Any true COwboys fan would be happy that both Romo and Henson looked good on saturday. Any true cowboys fan wouldn't bash either of them they support the other guy. Any true cowboys fan wouldn't have an agenda in that regard anyway. Why care if one guy wins the job over the other? I swear, some of these people would rather their guy win the #2 job even if he didn't deserve it. If it were clear to everyone on the planet that Henson easily beat out Romo for the #2 job, but Romo was named the backup, there would be Romo people celebrating in the streets. Nors would make 193 posts about how he was right about Romo being named the #2 guy, even if he KNEW it should have been Henson.


Don't want to see the word "Agenda" around here anymore? Try and convince the people here that the only thing that matters is the cowboys having the best chance at winning superbowls, and to ACCEPT it if "their guy" turns out to NOT be that guy.
 

jterrell

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OH,
I absolutely agree.
Anyone uttering agenda usually has a difference of opinion w/ the person they claim has this "agenda".

I feel very insulted when someone claims to know what I think or feel beyond what I have stated plainly.

Anyone uttering agenda really needs to check their ego and realize differences of opinion do not make it an agenda. We all have views and make arguments to support them. Some can not ever let go of any argument and beat it to death but it doesn't make it any more an agenda than the folks of opposite opinion carrying on each thread just as doggedly.

If you think someone has an agenda the best thing to do is to ignore them period. Why promote their "agenda"?? You wouldn't of course do that if you were really thinking it through so it's probably just hollow talk and cheap shots meant to continue a long winded debate that neither side has any desire to see go away.
 

jterrell

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Rack said:
If you think there aren't several posters here that DO have an agenda (about one thing or another) then you are in complete denial. And if there weren't anyone here with agendas then you wouldn't see the word around here, would you?


Why start a thread/post bashing one of our own QBs performances and praising another when it's clear the one being bashed had the better game? Agenda.

And it works both ways. There's Henson people that bash into Romo's performance or supposed lack of arm strength cuz of their agenda. There's Romo people that say "Henson doesn't have the mind for the game" cuz of their agendas. It's all agendas.


My only "Agenda" is the dallas cowboys winning superbowl. I don't care if the Name on the back of the jersey of our starting QB is Romo, Henson, Bledsoe, or whoever, as long as that person is good enough to get us to the big game. If Romo ends up being our future and wins a superbowl, should the Henson people be upset about it? If they would get upset with that they should stick their hand in a blender and hit "Frappe". Same for the Romo supporters if Henson were to win a superbowl.


Any true COwboys fan would be happy that both Romo and Henson looked good on saturday. Any true cowboys fan wouldn't bash either of them they support the other guy. Any true cowboys fan wouldn't have an agenda in that regard anyway. Why care if one guy wins the job over the other? I swear, some of these people would rather their guy win the #2 job even if he didn't deserve it. If it were clear to everyone on the planet that Henson easily beat out Romo for the #2 job, but Romo was named the backup, there would be Romo people celebrating in the streets. Nors would make 193 posts about how he was right about Romo being named the #2 guy, even if he KNEW it should have been Henson.


Don't want to see the word "Agenda" around here anymore? Try and convince the people here that the only thing that matters is the cowboys having the best chance at winning superbowls, and to ACCEPT it if "their guy" turns out to NOT be that guy.

Rack,
Thats called an opinion and folks are entitled to them.
Making it a personal crusade by arguing it daily doesn't make it an agenda.

An agenda is a list of things to be accomplished. Agendum is a single thing to be addressed/accomplished.

The bottom line is we have little cliques that like to create little buzzwords to argue with their favorite counterparts and frankly that shows a grade school mentality.

If anyone has an agenda on these boards that agenda is to argue with others over nonsense. If they have a deep seated belief in one player over another that is an opinion.
 

Outlaw Heroes

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Rack said:
Don't want to see the word "Agenda" around here anymore? Try and convince the people here that the only thing that matters is the cowboys having the best chance at winning superbowls, and to ACCEPT it if "their guy" turns out to NOT be that guy.

I don't think we're too far apart, Rack. We agree that support of the team should constrain the debate. My main point, however, is that preference for one guy over the other -- even, as JTerrell suggests, an opinion that one of the two is better -- shouldn't by itself be dismissed as an "agenda", since it's perfectly consistent with the team's best interests. It's when a poster goes beyond that, and wishes for a guy's failure at the expense of the team and in pursuit of some personal objective, that a problem arises and the term "agenda" is appropriate.
 

BrAinPaiNt

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I think Rack and Outlaw Heros are closer then they appear to realize.

I also think Rack is closer to the thing then the other two as I personally feel that there are MANY posters with agendas.

I don't think they always start out that way, I think however some get trapped into them after putting so much time or effort in championing the cause of a player they "like".

There are people with clear cut agendas that are so transparent we all see them, there are some that are a little more slick about those agendas, there are some I feel that trap themselves into agendas even if it was not their intent....and finally there are just some people that have strong opinons without agendas.

But to think there are only a couple of people with agendas on here....I would say there are many more then that.
 
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Good post Outlaw Hero's & JT!

People using that term "Agenda" seem to lack the skills to offer any views on that side of the post/opinion... :cool:
 

BrAinPaiNt

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Hollywood Henderson said:
Good post Outlaw Hero's & JT!

People using that term "Agenda" seem to lack the skills to offer any views on that side of the post/opinion... :cool:

:rolleyes: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2: :rolleyes:
 
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As long as we BOTH know what we do best...Some know about Football, some know about "painting their brains" and stopping free speech! :rolleyes:
 

Rack

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Outlaw Heroes said:
I don't think we're too far apart, Rack. We agree that support of the team should constrain the debate. My main point, however, is that preference for one guy over the other -- even, as JTerrell suggests, an opinion that one of the two is better -- shouldn't by itself be dismissed as an "agenda", since it's perfectly consistent with the team's best interests. It's when a poster goes beyond that, and wishes for a guy's failure at the expense of the team and in pursuit of some personal objective, that a problem arises and the term "agenda" is appropriate.



I agree, but when people have to make it a point to say "Well Romo had Witten to throw to" or "Romo had more time then Henson" or "Henson's stats sucks so he sucked" then that's cuz of their agenda.
 

BrAinPaiNt

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Hollywood Henderson said:
As long as we BOTH know what we do best...Some know about Football, some know about "painting their brains" and stopping free speech! :rolleyes:


And some, like you, know about agendas.

You are the last person that should be talking about it when you have multiple agendas.
 

jterrell

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BrAinPaiNt said:
I think Rack and Outlaw Heros are closer then they appear to realize.

I also think Rack is closer to the thing then the other two as I personally feel that there are MANY posters with agendas.

I don't think they always start out that way, I think however some get trapped into them after putting so much time or effort in championing the cause of a player they "like".

There are people with clear cut agendas that are so transparent we all see them, there are some that are a little more slick about those agendas, there are some I feel that trap themselves into agendas even if it was not their intent....and finally there are just some people that have strong opinons without agendas.

But to think there are only a couple of people with agendas on here....I would say there are many more then that.

BP,
I think you are guilty of mistaking the definition of the term agenda.
Having a viewpoint and promoting that ad nauseum isn't an agenda. There's no accomplishment in that.

One's worldview, viewpoint, opinions are all essentially the same thing but agenda is not. It connotates a goal and you are not going to achieve that thru arguing on these boards.

And I agree w/ HH that relying on crutch words makes one look less intelligent overall than those that do not regardless of position on any subject.

Seeing HH post tho brought me to politics and of course there is an excellent example of true agendas. In politics arguments can change votes which drive change and can effect end results. Parties have agenda, candidates have agendas, CZ posters have agendas as well but the far too frequent use of the term here is incorrect.

Agenda is more like an itinerary than a point of view. It is something you do then are done with. What we have on the boards is nonsense that never stops. There's no end to the task thus no agenda could be completed, no tasks completed.

I am not a grammer or spelling **** but my English undergrad side craves linguistic accuracy.
 

Wimbo

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Whatever. As long as we start Henson, trade for Ty Law, release Tucker, bench Scott, move LA to RT, and fire Zimmer.


;)
 

Juke99

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I'm always surprised when people feel the need to respond to a person who they claim has an "agenda".

We all have to deal with people, who truly have agendas, in our every day "REAL" lives. We'd prefer not to...but there's simply no choice.

Now, we come to this board and lo and behold, a feature is given to us by the internet Gods themselves. Yet, we dont take advantage of it.

http://img152.*************/img152/9799/untitled68copy2mw.jpg

How tragic. :D
 

BrAinPaiNt

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jterrell said:
BP,
I think you are guilty of mistaking the definition of the term agenda.
Having a viewpoint and promoting that ad nauseum isn't an agenda. There's no accomplishment in that.

One's worldview, viewpoint, opinions are all essentially the same thing but agenda is not. It connotates a goal and you are not going to achieve that thru arguing on these boards.

And I agree w/ HH that relying on crutch words makes one look less intelligent overall than those that do not regardless of position on any subject.

Seeing HH post tho brought me to politics and of course there is an excellent example of true agendas. In politics arguments can change votes which drive change and can effect end results. Parties have agenda, candidates have agendas, CZ posters have agendas as well but the far too frequent use of the term here is incorrect.

Agenda is more like an itinerary than a point of view. It is something you do then are done with. What we have on the boards is nonsense that never stops. There's no end to the task thus no agenda could be completed, no tasks completed.

I am not a grammer or spelling **** but my English undergrad side craves linguistic accuracy.


I have no problem if someone says player A is better then Player B in their opinon.

I DO have a problem and call a spade a spade when they will blindly dismiss any positives in player B to promote player A while also dismiss any negatives of Player A.

There ARE agendas on this board by some posters. I think they get so attached to arguments that it leads to an agenda, whether they realize it or not, to perserve the opinions that they held about said player to the point that they will lose any sense of being objective. In other words they get trapped after investing so much time and energy into an argument or player that they no longer can be objective in seeing any other point of view, to the point they will go to crazy levels to still argue their point of view on the player.

But hey...that is just my opinion.
 

BrAinPaiNt

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Juke99 said:
I'm always surprised when people feel the need to respond to a person who they claim has an "agenda".

We all have to deal with people, who truly have agendas, in our every day "REAL" lives. We'd prefer not to...but there's simply no choice.

Now, we come to this board and lo and behold, a feature is given to us by the internet Gods themselves. Yet, we dont take advantage of it.

http://img152.*************/img152/9799/untitled68copy2mw.jpg

How tragic. :D


Don't you miss that option sometimes lol.
 
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