"nay"-sayers, Let's take a look at 1st round WRs

[Hoofbite]

Look at Bobby Carpenter for god sakes. Worthless a pick as I have ever seen.

I love everything that BP brought to Dallas but that BC pick still sucks as much as any he made. Sucks more than all those OL that he drafted and missed on. I guess that whole draft pretty much sucked as we only have Carp, Watkins, Hatcher and the Klingon, McQuistan.

And I really hate to go back and say "coulda, woulda, shoulda" but this pick so far has turned out to be one of the biggest letdowns in recent memory. I was a big Manny Lawson fan and I'll admit that most of it was based on some fine measurables and some decent production. But even that guy has made it onto the field. He's been relatively productive but has missed an whole lot of time because of injury and yet even Lawson has played.

What has the team gotten from Barbie (that name is so fitting)? 1 game in Seattle? Pathetic. Its atrocious. And because of that, I will never be upset at the Roy trade. Only way I will be upset with the Roy trade is if it turns out to be about as fruitless as the Bobby pick and I'd say the chances of are pretty low.

As far as I am concerned, Dallas only really gave up a 3rd rounder. You have to believe that WR would have been high up on the priority list next offseason. Sure, the team could have signed Roy if he wasn't Franchised but lets get real folks, the window of opportunity for any team is only so big. Injuries and parity abound, you gotta strike while the iron is hot. So the 1st rounder, I mean, if you are going to spend that pick on that specific position anyway, I call that a wash.

That 6th rounder is so miniscule that I am surprised it was included. If you think about where Dallas will be picking and where Detroit will be picking in the 7th round, we're possibly talking about 4-5 picks. Best case scenario and in a perfect world, Detroit picks 1st in the 7th and Dallas picks last in the 6th. Of course, the comp picks come in but how many we talking 8 picks? Ill take it.

So a 3rd rounder to get a good, solid, young player who can come in and be in full stride by the time the playoffs come around and who also fills a need that would have been addressed in 9 months anyway, you betcha.

 

[sk0aL]

I love everything that BP brought to Dallas but that BC pick still sucks as much as any he made. Sucks more than all those OL that he drafted and missed on. I guess that whole draft pretty much sucked as we only have Carp, Watkins, Hatcher and the Klingon, McQuistan.

I never bought into the whole notion that BP made this team what it is.

You have to remember, BP didn't want to keep Romo around. BP didn't want T.O. BP didn't want Newman. The only players that BP got that have had an impact are Ware and MB3.

Let's take a loot at some of Tuna's dandies:

Bobby Carpenter
Anthony Fasano
Skyler Green
Rob Petitti
Zuriel Smith
Jacques Reeves
Montavious Stanley
Justin Beriault
Jacob Rogers
B.J. Tucker

 

[Temo]

Out of thsoe 37 picks, I see 22 busts. That's a "not a bust" success rate of 40.5%

 

[Temo]

I never bought into the whole notion that BP made this team what it is.

You have to remember, BP didn't want to keep Romo around. BP didn't want T.O. BP didn't want Newman. The only players that BP got that have had an impact are Ware and MB3.

Let's take a loot at some of Tuna's dandies:

Bobby Carpenter
Anthony Fasano
Skyler Green
Rob Petitti
Zuriel Smith
Jacques Reeves
Montavious Stanley
Justin Beriault
Jacob Rogers
B.J. Tucker

1. Who says he didn't want Newman? And if he didn't want Newman, who did he want?

2. Didn't want Romo? Then why'd he keep him on the team?

3. Your entire list below Anthony Fasano is full of day 2 picks (except Jacob Rogers). You're going to blame Parcels for takign Reeves in the 7th round? Dude, I would take Reeves again in the 7th round if i was able to.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Also can't forget that he did also find Jay Ratliff (I believe it was when he was here) in later rounds and Chris Canty as well. Those were pretty good picks, I'd say.

 

[jobberone]

I never bought into the whole notion that BP made this team what it is.

You have to remember, BP didn't want to keep Romo around. BP didn't want T.O. BP didn't want Newman. The only players that BP got that have had an impact are Ware and MB3.

Let's take a loot at some of Tuna's dandies:

Bobby Carpenter
Anthony Fasano
Skyler Green
Rob Petitti
Zuriel Smith
Jacques Reeves
Montavious Stanley
Justin Beriault
Jacob Rogers
B.J. Tucker

When did Parcells want to dump Romo?

 

[jdnelson103]

Exactly. Jerry let Detroit make the gamble by taking him at #7. Now that Jerry knows he is a gaurantee pay-out, he pushed them out of the way and stole their seat. Great trade.

By the way jazzcat, great location to be in. Born and raised there myself. Trinity #1 in the NATION!

 

[sk0aL]

1. Who says he didn't want Newman? And if he didn't want Newman, who did he want?

2. Didn't want Romo? Then why'd he keep him on the team?

3. Your entire list below Anthony Fasano is full of day 2 picks (except Jacob Rogers). You're going to blame Parcels for takign Reeves in the 7th round? Dude, I would take Reeves again in the 7th round if i was able to.

1. There were reports after the 2003 draft that BP was strong-armed into getting TNew by Jerry, and it's been mentioned on this site several times by posters more informed than me. I can't cite a source, so I'll just call it a wash.

2. Romo remained on the team because of Sean Payton. If you recall, once Payton landed in New Orleans he immediately tried to get Romo.

3. The point still stands. You can scrap the late round picks and still most of Tuna's first/second round picks have not lived up to the billing. If they had, we wouldn't be going in to next season's draft looking at NTs, ILBs, and SSs.

 

[Temo]

Just a short list of all other Round 1 players I'd rather have than Terrence Newman:

Terrel Suggs
Troy Polamalu
Kevin Williams
Nnamdi Asomugha

 

[Temo]

3. The point still stands. You can scrap the late round picks and still most of Tuna's first/second round picks have not lived up to the billing. If they had, we wouldn't be going in to next season's draft looking at NTs, ILBs, and SSs.

Not true.

Also, we're not going to be looking for a nose tackle, and probably not SS either.

 

[sk0aL]

Not true.

Also, we're not going to be looking for a nose tackle, and probably not SS either.

Pass the dutchie to the left hand side.

 

[BigDFan5]

2008
(none)
2007

23 Dwayne Bowe
27 Robert Meachem
30 Craig Davis
32 Anthony Gonzalez
2006
25 Santonio Holmes
2005

21 Matt Jones
22 Mark Clayton
27 Roddy White
2004

29 Michael Jenkins
31 Rashaun Woods
2003

2002

20 Javon Walker
2001

25 Freddie Mitchell
30 Reggie Wayne
2000

21 Sylvester Morris
29 R.Jay Soward

I had a bunch of points to make but at this time it's painfully obvious where I was going with this. If you can't figure it out now then it's foolish for me to continue.

Now take out WRs taken in the top 20 assuming we will be picking late in rd 1

Now the best WR left is Reggie Wayne followed by .......

 

[Boysboy]

I never bought into the whole notion that BP made this team what it is.

You have to remember, BP didn't want to keep Romo around. BP didn't want T.O. BP didn't want Newman. The only players that BP got that have had an impact are Ware and MB3.

Let's take a loot at some of Tuna's dandies:

Bobby Carpenter
Anthony Fasano
Skyler Green
Rob Petitti
Zuriel Smith
Jacques Reeves
Montavious Stanley
Justin Beriault
Jacob Rogers
B.J. Tucker

In all fairness, he DID sign off on the Owens deal. Yes, it was Jerry's idea. Yes, Jerry was vocal in lobbying hard for him. But ultimately, Bill P had the final yea or nah vote on this. Even the Joneses had to ask him on multiple occasions if he was OK with it.

As for Rogers-ALL of the scouts WARNED him not to draft him b/c of his durability and lazy work ethics, but he didn't listen.

 

[Temo]

Now take out WRs taken in the top 20 assuming we will be picking late in rd 1

Now the best WR left is Reggie Wayne followed by .......

In order: Santonio Holmes, Roddy White, and Anothony Gonzalez

All of which are fine young players well worth their draft position.

 

[Boysboy]

2008
(none)
2007
2 Calvin Johnson
9 Ted Ginn Jr.
23 Dwayne Bowe
27 Robert Meachem
30 Craig Davis
32 Anthony Gonzalez
2006
25 Santonio Holmes
2005
3 Braylon Edwards
7 Troy Williamson
10 Mike Williams
21 Matt Jones
22 Mark Clayton
27 Roddy White
2004
3 Larry Fitzgerald
7 Roy Williams
9 Reggie Williams
13 Lee Evans
15 Michael Clayton
29 Michael Jenkins
31 Rashaun Woods
2003
2 Charles Rogers
3 Andre Johnson
17 Bryant Johnson
2002
13 Donte' Stallworth
19 Ashley Lelie
20 Javon Walker
2001
8 David Terrell
9 Koren Robinson
15 Rod Gardner
16 Santana Moss
25 Freddie Mitchell
30 Reggie Wayne
2000
4 Peter Warrick
8 Plaxico Burress
10 Travis Taylor
21 Sylvester Morris
29 R.Jay Soward

I had a bunch of points to make but at this time it's painfully obvious where I was going with this. If you can't figure it out now then it's foolish for me to continue.

Holmes has turned out to be outstanding for Pitt-however, my big gripe over the Carp pick was that we SHOULD have drafted that stud DB Cromartie instead.

White has turned out to be very good-the big reason why he didn't play well early on was b/c Mike Vick was an incompetent ****. Since he left, those Falcon receivers are no longer dropping balls et al. It's no coincidence.

BTW-great job on the list, Spectre.

 

[Boysboy]

1. Who says he didn't want Newman? And if he didn't want Newman, who did he want?

2. Didn't want Romo? Then why'd he keep him on the team?

3. Your entire list below Anthony Fasano is full of day 2 picks (except Jacob Rogers). You're going to blame Parcels for takign Reeves in the 7th round? Dude, I would take Reeves again in the 7th round if i was able to.

1) I thought Newman WAS a BP pick-I could be wrong, however-he's always put his most priority in the secondary with his D's wherever he went.

2) I think that poster was trying to say it was PAYTON who initially spotted Romo(thanks to his Eastern Illinois ties), and suggested Parcells to bring him in. Remember-Shanahan was interested in Romo as well.

3) I was about to say the same thing-Reeves may blow, but he is what he is...a 7th round zone cover corner. It's not like you're going to find any shutdown corners late in the 2nd day. Although I wished he did a much better job in playing the nickel here.

 

[Boysboy]

Not true.

Also, we're not going to be looking for a nose tackle, and probably not SS either.

You know that for a fact? Tank likely won't be here next year due to an expired contract.

 

[bbgun]

Adding WR Williams not Cowboys’ smartest move
By Mike Florio - SportingNews


Starting with the moment in which Sean Morey mangled Mat McBriar’s foot on the last play of that overtime loss to the Cardinals, the Dallas Cowboys embarked on the worst 48 hours that the franchise ever has experienced.

McBriar? Gone for the year. Tony Romo? Broken pinkie. Felix Jones? Strained hamstring. Sam Hurd? Out for the year. Adam “Pacman” Jones? Suspended for at least a month. Terrell Owens? Still an idiot.

So it’s hard not to conclude that owner Jerry Jones set his sights on receiver Roy Williams in part to reverse the flow of bad news, regardless of the cost.

And the cost was significant. In addition to a five-year, $45 million contract with $20 million guaranteed, the Cowboys also gave up a first-round pick, a third-round pick, and a sixth-round pick.

Hey, at least the Lions threw in a seventh-round pick, which apparently was intended to create the perception of level scales.

The Cowboys gave up too much. Williams isn’t a superstar. He’s good, but he’s not worth a one, a three, and a six (minus a seven). If Williams had finished the year in Detroit and the Lions had applied the franchise tag, a first-round pick at most would have been the price.

But Cowboys owner Jerry Jones wants to christen that new stadium not with a bottle of Dom Perignon (or a whole bunch of Mums) but with a Vince Lombardi Trophy. And so Jones is willing to give up a couple of extra picks if it enhances his chances of making it happen.

To the extent Jones thinks that a clear connection exists between adding Williams and winning a championship, Jones might want to think again. The last time we checked, the offense still uses only one ball. And the Cowboys already have T.O. and Jason Witten and Marion Barber and Felix Jones to clamor for it.

While the Colts have managed a similar situation without incident, none of Indy’s various highly-skilled skill-position players get testy when they aren’t getting enough attention. Guys like Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, and Dallas Clark realize that in some games the ball will come their way and that, in others, it won’t.

T.O. has yet to master the ability to take a backseat to other players. Sure, he can say that he’s not bothered by Williams’ new $9-million annual average (which matches Owens’ yearly take), but only because Owens thinks that this boost to the passing game will result in more footballs flying in his direction. When opposing defenses continue to focus on taking T.O. out of the game plan and Williams ends up with eight catches for 130 yards, Owens might be singing (or crying) a far different tune.

Besides, if the Cowboys needed another receiver, why didn’t they make a play for Anquan Boldin? Or Chad Johnson? Or T.J. Houshmandzadeh? Each, in my view, is better than Williams.

The reality is they didn’t need another receiver. Patrick Crayton has been solid, and Witten has been putting up wideout numbers. With Pacman and Terrence Newman each gone for a month (Pacman possibly even longer), the Cowboys would have been wiser to make a play for cornerback Lito Sheppard. (Though the Cowboys and Eagles are in the same division and thus possibly not inclined to make trades, they’ve done business in the past, as recently as last year.)

If Jones acquired Williams in an effort to shake things up and focus the team on winning more games than it loses, the better approach would have been to dump that glorified defensive coordinator serving as the team’s head coach. Everyone knows Wade Phillips really doesn’t have any juice; why not drop the charade and give the whistle to Jason Garrett?

OK, so that probably would have been a bad idea.

But no worse than mortgaging next year’s draft and paying $9 million per year to an overhyped receiver who’ll only put more pressure on the Dallas offense.

 

[Billy Bullocks]

2008
(none)
2007
2 Calvin Johnson
9 Ted Ginn Jr.
23 Dwayne Bowe
27 Robert Meachem
30 Craig Davis
32 Anthony Gonzalez ...is it the talent around him?
2006
25 Santonio Holmes
2005
3 Braylon Edwards
7 Troy Williamson
10 Mike Williams
21 Matt Jones
22 Mark Clayton
27 Roddy White
2004
3 Larry Fitzgerald
7 Roy Williams ..
9 Reggie Williams
13 Lee Evans
15 Michael Clayton
29 Michael Jenkins
31 Rashaun Woods
2003
2 Charles Rogers
3 Andre Johnson
17 Bryant Johnson
2002
13 Donte' Stallworth
19 Ashley Lelie
20 Javon Walker
2001
8 David Terrell
9 Koren Robinson
15 Rod Gardner
16 Santana Moss
25 Freddie Mitchell
30 Reggie Wayne
2000
4 Peter Warrick
8 Plaxico Burress
10 Travis Taylor
21 Sylvester Morris
29 R.Jay Soward

I had a bunch of points to make but at this time it's painfully obvious where I was going with this. If you can't figure it out now then it's foolish for me to continue.

11 out of the 37 listed, I would consider pretty good.

WR in 1st round is a total crap shoot.

At least with Williams we know we have a pretty good WR at this level.

 

[Verdict]

Look at Bobby Carpenter for god sakes. Worthless a pick as I have ever seen.

I love everything that BP brought to Dallas but that BC pick still sucks as much as any he made. Sucks more than all those OL that he drafted and missed on. I guess that whole draft pretty much sucked as we only have Carp, Watkins, Hatcher and the Klingon, McQuistan.

And I really hate to go back and say "coulda, woulda, shoulda" but this pick so far has turned out to be one of the biggest letdowns in recent memory. I was a big Manny Lawson fan and I'll admit that most of it was based on some fine measurables and some decent production. But even that guy has made it onto the field. He's been relatively productive but has missed an whole lot of time because of injury and yet even Lawson has played.

What has the team gotten from Barbie (that name is so fitting)? 1 game in Seattle? Pathetic. Its atrocious. And because of that, I will never be upset at the Roy trade. Only way I will be upset with the Roy trade is if it turns out to be about as fruitless as the Bobby pick and I'd say the chances of are pretty low.

As far as I am concerned, Dallas only really gave up a 3rd rounder. You have to believe that WR would have been high up on the priority list next offseason. Sure, the team could have signed Roy if he wasn't Franchised but lets get real folks, the window of opportunity for any team is only so big. Injuries and parity abound, you gotta strike while the iron is hot. So the 1st rounder, I mean, if you are going to spend that pick on that specific position anyway, I call that a wash.

That 6th rounder is so miniscule that I am surprised it was included. If you think about where Dallas will be picking and where Detroit will be picking in the 7th round, we're possibly talking about 4-5 picks. Best case scenario and in a perfect world, Detroit picks 1st in the 7th and Dallas picks last in the 6th. Of course, the comp picks come in but how many we talking 8 picks? Ill take it.

So a 3rd rounder to get a good, solid, young player who can come in and be in full stride by the time the playoffs come around and who also fills a need that would have been addressed in 9 months anyway, you betcha.

Well reasoned post regarding the trade. I think we gave away "reasonable compensation" to Detroit make the trade. I am more worried about the potential "cap impact" at this point, although at some time in the future, prior to Roy Williams fulfilling his contract, there is a chance the T.O.'s contract will come off the books.