Ramsey, Elliot, Tunsil, Bosa

lostar2009

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Interesting article on the RB Dilemma and why teams are not valuing them like they use too.

Jerry spoke to this some yesterday.

http://www.sportsonearth.com/articl...ck-value-todd-gurley-melvin-gordon-mike-davis

I did a quick look but I think the reason why rbs aren't taken that high is because most aren't that great. But the Cowboys in general show they undervalued the postion with the snub on Murray contract and brining in 2 veterans on pretty much low contracts.
 

boysfanindc

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I did a quick look but I think the reason why rbs aren't taken that high is because most aren't that great. But the Cowboys in general show they undervalued the postion with the snub on Murray contract and brining in 2 veterans on pretty much low contracts.

The main points where:

Nobody wants to invest in running backs long-term, and even when they do, they want to protect those investments. As teams pass more, and as teams split carries more, nobody is being asked to shoulder the load 25 times every game. It's a logical strategic shift, but it also signals a change in the way we view players. Running backs were once almost full and equal partners in the backfield with the quarterbacks. Now, in many cases, they're becoming expendable bit players, the "thunder and lightning" systems -- see the Bengals adding Hill despite Bernard's stellar rookie year -- relying on multiple backs combining to create the same impact of one back in past years.

But in only a few years, that changed, following the trends on the field. Aside from obvious stars like Adrian Peterson and LeSean McCoy, committee approaches and pass-first offenses have taken hold, rendering running backs almost interchangeable in some systems. It's had a similar impact in the actual NFL draft, where the possibility of striking gold in the later rounds or after the fact -- see Terrell Davis and Arian Foster, among others -- combined with the short shelf life of the position makes spending a first-round pick on one a risky proposition. By taking a running back in the first round, an NFL team is betting that he can be a bell-cow back who's not going to wear down quickly. There are very few players, if any, who safely meet those criteria.
 

Chuck 54

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I think deep down we all know it's Ramsey if available, and rightly so.
If Ramsey is gone, now it's iffy...do we take Bosa, Buckner, or trade down? I know all the talk has made me think Elliott might be an option, but in my saner moments, I just don't buy it. I think it's another smoke screen and desperate attempt to get someone else to flinch. I just don't see any logical reason why the Cowboys would do a 180 on their current philosophy to draft a RB at #4.

I get what many fans are asking for and why, but it would go completely against team philosophy...how can that happen? Having Murray or not had zero impact on our team without Romo and Dez. If those guys are healthy and back to normal this year, Elliott adds to a great offense. If not, and we play with a backup QB and a Dez who's less than he was, Elliott isn't going to take us anywhere.

I'll stand firm here. There's no way the Cowboys are seriously considering Elliott at #4.... No way.
 

jordan4vols

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Let's draft Tunseil and then no matter where we finish leverage as many picks as we can for Leonard Fornette next year :)
 

RonSpringsdaman20

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I've heard so much "Bosa is really good not great" that maybe many are wrong on him and he'll be a 15 sack guy.

I'm sure some folks have seen him more than I have. I've watched him maybe 4 times over the last two years... but every time I watched him I came away impressed. He seemed to have a lot of moves, and he was efficient. I know he was killing Michigan this year.

Both him and Ramsey are big time players.... (I've seen every game Ramsey has played)...
I would be happy with either, and I would play Ramsey at Safety.
 

DBOY3141

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Hard to say.

I've heard comparisons to Troy Polamalu.

Problem is, unless of course it's a smokescreen, but they expect him to play CB in Dallas. Seems like mixed reviews if he would be a good CB.
 

erod

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Problem is, unless of course it's a smokescreen, but they expect him to play CB in Dallas. Seems like mixed reviews if he would be a good CB.

If that's what they see, I'm not interested.

I want a Jones/Ramsey combo at safety if he's the pick. Otherwise, just take Bosa.

Of course, Elliott is who I'm really hoping for.
 

jday

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Top flight secondary, dominant running game, Hall of fame offensive line, or average defensive line. I think thats what these guys can bring us. What do you want? I am not talking about the players individual talent. What do these guys bring to the individual units of the Cowboys.

I really like your approach to that question, because I think lost in the discussion of need versus best player available is how you define both. For me, best player available only makes sense if the player is a schematic fit. I asked the question in another thread: if the best player available is a guy more suited to play defend end in a 34, do you still take him despite the fact that he likely disappears in your scheme? That's where I think many fans get lost when evaluating the best decision the Cowboys could make given where they are picking this year.

Many would argue the BPA this year is Tunsil...and they may be right. But I don't think the Cowboys want to devote yet another 1st round pick to the OL. Ideally, the Cowboys could make a very short trade down to pick up an additional 3rd or 4th and still get who I hope their guy is: Zeke. Though we should all take what was said in yesterday's press conference with a grain of salt considering the predraft posturing teams like to engage in to mislead and misdirect 31 other teams, Jerry did say they are more than happy to stay put at four, which suggest they have their guy in mind.

So if we have already eliminated Tunsil and the top QB's are gone, that leaves Ramsey, Bosa and Zeke. Drafting Bosa many would view as a knee-jerk reaction to the impending suspension of Lawrence and Gregory. I don't think the Cowboys will want to be married to a guy for four years, just to cover up deficiencies for four games. Furthermore, I'm not certain Bosa fits the mold of what Marinelli looks for in a 43 DE. Based on what I have read on Ramsey, he is a safety and with the fourth overall pick in the first round, I just don't see the Cowboys picking up a guy who is yet another solid player but not a playmaker.

That leaves Zeke. No, Zeke is not the second coming of Emmitt or Adrian Peterson. Those guys are once a generation type players. But the Zeke fit could be amazing behind that offensive line coupled with the threat of the Romo to Dez to Beasley to Witten to Dunbar (even) connection. Zeke may not be particularly excellent at any one thing, but he is good at everything you ask a running back to do. He can run, catch, pass protect...and he can do it for 3 downs. The beauty of that last statement is the fact that the Cowboys do not have to tip their hand in terms of intentions. With the Running back by committee approach, you afford the opposing defense the ability to diagnose from a smaller play book. With Zeke in, the whole playbook is open.

He brings both game-breaking speed which is a homerun threat from just about anywhere on the field along with the ability to lower his shoulders and get that needed inch. For me, as I have said ad nauseum, it really is a no-brainer what the Cowboys should do. But the closer we get to the draft, the more nervous I get about the Cowboys potential to out smart themselves and go with something safer. In the history of me picking pet cats I have never been surer about whom the Cowboys should take...and if they don't, it will be the worst mistake since the Cowboys elected to take Ellis over Moss.
 

SacredStar

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the entire draft is a crapshoot. Mo was supposed to be a sure fire shut down corner. How did that turn out?
 

CowboyRoy

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Top flight secondary, dominant running game, Hall of fame offensive line, or average defensive line. I think thats what these guys can bring us. What do you want? I am not talking about the players individual talent. What do these guys bring to the individual units of the Cowboys.

I am passing on Elliott because I dont think you need to use a #4 pick on that here. I think you take your shots with rounds 3-5 for the next year or two and try to strike gold. The ONLY time I would ever use a high pick on a back is if this team was title ready and all it was missing was a stud back. Like the Panthers are now.

Bosa is the biggest need, but I want a pass rushing nightmare and he isnt it

Tunsil I have argued about for a week now and I would trade out of the pick

Ramsey is my guy if he is there. Big time need and is a great player. Now he is the RKG in the real sense of the phrase.
 

silver

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Elliott can run, catch and block. Urban Meyer has this to say about the kid:

“He’s the best player I’ve ever coached without the ball in his hands,” Meyer said of Elliott. “Think about that for a minute.

“He’s the best as far as blocking, pass protection and effort down the field.”

My vote goes to EE. Give him jersey # 22 and let's go.
 

darthseinfeld

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My preference in this draft at 4 was 1) QB 2) DL 3) Pray you get a trade down partner.

Since QB is unlikely Im looking at what defensive line has the best chance to be worth the 4th overall pick. And to me thats Buckner over Bosa. I dont dislike Bosa, I think he is going to be a good defensive end. But not a 4th overall level defensive end. He has been getting alot of Ellis comps, I think he is better. But slightly better. I think he could also be a poor mans Justin Smith. I think he is short of elite.

Buckner on the other hand I see a a guy who reminds me of Muhammad Wilkerson. I think he significantly improves key parts of our line in the run game and a run down LDE and in the pass game as a 3 Tech in sub packages. I think he would play ( maybe not 2016) very similar to how Hatcher played inside. It wasnt too long ago we had a player with great length and supreme athleticism wreak havoc inside on our defense
 

lostar2009

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The main points where:

Nobody wants to invest in running backs long-term, and even when they do, they want to protect those investments. As teams pass more, and as teams split carries more, nobody is being asked to shoulder the load 25 times every game. It's a logical strategic shift, but it also signals a change in the way we view players. Running backs were once almost full and equal partners in the backfield with the quarterbacks. Now, in many cases, they're becoming expendable bit players, the "thunder and lightning" systems -- see the Bengals adding Hill despite Bernard's stellar rookie year -- relying on multiple backs combining to create the same impact of one back in past years.

But in only a few years, that changed, following the trends on the field. Aside from obvious stars like Adrian Peterson and LeSean McCoy, committee approaches and pass-first offenses have taken hold, rendering running backs almost interchangeable in some systems. It's had a similar impact in the actual NFL draft, where the possibility of striking gold in the later rounds or after the fact -- see Terrell Davis and Arian Foster, among others -- combined with the short shelf life of the position makes spending a first-round pick on one a risky proposition. By taking a running back in the first round, an NFL team is betting that he can be a bell-cow back who's not going to wear down quickly. There are very few players, if any, who safely meet those criteria.

A team like the Cowboys benefited greatly from a more balance approach. An Aerial and ground game. But it's much harder for a team to dominate both aspects of the game. That takes a lot of drafting and hits on picks. You need a qb that can make plays, a we core, a nice stable of rbs or a work horse and an offensive line that can dominant. Most teams Wil focus on one and neglect the rest.
 

baltcowboy

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I really like your approach to that question, because I think lost in the discussion of need versus best player available is how you define both. For me, best player available only makes sense if the player is a schematic fit. I asked the question in another thread: if the best player available is a guy more suited to play defend end in a 34, do you still take him despite the fact that he likely disappears in your scheme? That's where I think many fans get lost when evaluating the best decision the Cowboys could make given where they are picking this year.

Many would argue the BPA this year is Tunsil...and they may be right. But I don't think the Cowboys want to devote yet another 1st round pick to the OL. Ideally, the Cowboys could make a very short trade down to pick up an additional 3rd or 4th and still get who I hope their guy is: Zeke. Though we should all take what was said in yesterday's press conference with a grain of salt considering the predraft posturing teams like to engage in to mislead and misdirect 31 other teams, Jerry did say they are more than happy to stay put at four, which suggest they have their guy in mind.

So if we have already eliminated Tunsil and the top QB's are gone, that leaves Ramsey, Bosa and Zeke. Drafting Bosa many would view as a knee-jerk reaction to the impending suspension of Lawrence and Gregory. I don't think the Cowboys will want to be married to a guy for four years, just to cover up deficiencies for four games. Furthermore, I'm not certain Bosa fits the mold of what Marinelli looks for in a 43 DE. Based on what I have read on Ramsey, he is a safety and with the fourth overall pick in the first round, I just don't see the Cowboys picking up a guy who is yet another solid player but not a playmaker.

That leaves Zeke. No, Zeke is not the second coming of Emmitt or Adrian Peterson. Those guys are once a generation type players. But the Zeke fit could be amazing behind that offensive line coupled with the threat of the Romo to Dez to Beasley to Witten to Dunbar (even) connection. Zeke may not be particularly excellent at any one thing, but he is good at everything you ask a running back to do. He can run, catch, pass protect...and he can do it for 3 downs. The beauty of that last statement is the fact that the Cowboys do not have to tip their hand in terms of intentions. With the Running back by committee approach, you afford the opposing defense the ability to diagnose from a smaller play book. With Zeke in, the whole playbook is open.

He brings both game-breaking speed which is a homerun threat from just about anywhere on the field along with the ability to lower his shoulders and get that needed inch. For me, as I have said ad nauseum, it really is a no-brainer what the Cowboys should do. But the closer we get to the draft, the more nervous I get about the Cowboys potential to out smart themselves and go with something safer. In the history of me picking pet cats I have never been surer about whom the Cowboys should take...and if they don't, it will be the worst mistake since the Cowboys elected to take Ellis over Moss.

Jday you earned a gold star. I wanted to discuss what these four guys can do for are team. What player will make his teammates better.
 

Common Sense

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Elliott can run, catch and block. Urban Meyer has this to say about the kid:

“He’s the best player I’ve ever coached without the ball in his hands,” Meyer said of Elliott. “Think about that for a minute.

“He’s the best as far as blocking, pass protection and effort down the field.”

My vote goes to EE. Give him jersey # 22 and let's go.

This is what the anti-RB crowd doesn't seem to get. There isn't a team in the league who has "devalued" any of those qualities. They've just become increasingly harder to find.

I still want to trade down, but if it's Elliott I'm not going to be upset.
 

Bizwah

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Well, we have to draft someone. But according to this board there's nothing we can do.

Ramsey isn't a CB
Apparently, it's stupid to draft a RB high, so Zeke is out.
Bosa is good, not great
Tunsil is overkill

Am I missing anything?
 
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