Rank the RB's

[Questfor6]

7. Gurley
6. Ajayi
5. Yeldon
4. Coleman
3. Davis
2. David Johnson
1. J Langford

 

[jterrell]

7- R1- none
6.-R2- Coleman, Yeldon
5- R3- Ajani, Gordon, Duke Johnson
4- R4- Davis, Allen

Gurley is off board for me. Too close to draft with too little medical info.

 

[jterrell]

Let me ask you guys this:
What was the last RB who tore his ACL in his final collegiate season and didn't run before the draft that panned out?

 

[locked&loaded]

Let me ask you guys this:
What was the last RB who tore his ACL in his final collegiate season and didn't run before the draft that panned out?

I think it is kind of amusing that you have Gordon as a 3rd rounder and Gurley off your board and you are the one asking for explanations.

 

[tm1119]

After some serious #'s crunching I think these are the final results lol...

1- Gurley- 127
2- Gordon- 86
3- Ajayi- 65
4- Coleman- 60
5- Yeldon- 49
6- Mike Davis- 44
7a- Allen- 19
7b- Duke Johnson- 19
9- David Johnson- 13
10a- Langford- 3
10b- Cobb- 3
11- Abdullah- 1

Any surprises for anyone? I will say that I think Yeldon got a little more love than I thought. Mayben even Coleman too, but I guess that's just my personal opinion

 

[jterrell]

I think it is kind of amusing that you have Gordon as a 3rd rounder and Gurley off your board and you are the one asking for explanations.

so you can't answer the question... good job, good effort.

 

[jterrell]

fwiw:
Gurley: addressed ad nauseum but I am not drafting a guy that is injured at a position where injuries frequently end careers.
his return date is supposed to be august... that alone means he starts camp less than 100% go and is likely behind day 1.
for a QB or DE I can take that risk.. but RB? No way.
The results for top ranked RB in a class are atrocious anyway.

Gordon: I don't like a few things other ignore.
1) He is one of the best players in the country versus non-P5 schools but remove those games and his averages tumble. He averaged under 3.0 yards per carry versus Ohio State in his career. The Big 10 was TERRIBLE at run this defense this year.
2) I don't like his 630 collegiate carries with so much of that this year. That's a Murray like workload and is almost never sustainable.
3) With 630 carries he has all of 22 catches. So he has been zero weapon in the passing game.
So I do not think he comes in as a complete ready to roll back with zero risk.
So do I think he can play? Yes. Would I want to invest pick 27 on him? NO. pick 60? Possibly but unlikely. Pick 91, he'd be a tremendous steal by that point.

Demarco Murray was a 3rd round pick. Most of the top 10 in NFL rushers were 2nd round guys.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Let me ask you guys this:
What was the last RB who tore his ACL in his final collegiate season and didn't run before the draft that panned out?

Willis McGahee? He made two probowls...I would say that panned out.


Add to that...though not out of the draft and rookie status...

Peterson tore his and came back the next year and had a HUGE year.

 

[Dalmations202]

RD1) Gurley
RD2) Gordon
RD4) Yeldon

The rest are JAG's to me, because I have not spent a lot of time watching tape on them.

 

[locked&loaded]

fwiw:
Gurley: addressed ad nauseum but I am not drafting a guy that is injured at a position where injuries frequently end careers.
his return date is supposed to be august... that alone means he starts camp less than 100% go and is likely behind day 1.
for a QB or DE I can take that risk.. but RB? No way.
The results for top ranked RB in a class are atrocious anyway.

Gordon: I don't like a few things other ignore.
1) He is one of the best players in the country versus non-P5 schools but remove those games and his averages tumble. He averaged under 3.0 yards per carry versus Ohio State in his career. The Big 10 was TERRIBLE at run this defense this year.
2) I don't like his 630 collegiate carries with so much of that this year. That's a Murray like workload and is almost never sustainable.
3) With 630 carries he has all of 22 catches. So he has been zero weapon in the passing game.
So I do not think he comes in as a complete ready to roll back with zero risk.
So do I think he can play? Yes. Would I want to invest pick 27 on him? NO. pick 60? Possibly but unlikely. Pick 91, he'd be a tremendous steal by that point.

Demarco Murray was a 3rd round pick. Most of the top 10 in NFL rushers were 2nd round guys.

His average vs Ohio st is a bit over 3.5 ypc. He had one carry for -1 yard one game. His next he put up a hair under 5 ypc for 70+. Basically what you should have said is he had one bad game against Ohio st last year.

Only 4 games in his career under 4 ypc when he got 10 carriers or more. One of those being after LSU this year where something wasnt quite right. These things happen to every running back.

Yeah, he had a lot of carries in college....But, so did a lot of successful rbs..peterson had 748 carries, D murray 759, Tomlinson 943, Steven Jackson 743 carries, Emmitt Smith 700, Marshall Faulk 766..... just in this draft, Yeldon 576, abdullah 813, Ajayi 678, Langford 577, David Johnson 866.

Basically, if you dont like the 630 carry neighborhood you are really restricting yourself.

Do you want him to line up in the slot? He probably shouldnt be trusted to do that.

Can he catch a dump off, a screen, a swing pass? Yeah.

 

[jterrell]

Willis McGahee? He made two probowls...I would say that panned out.


Add to that...though not out of the draft and rookie status...

Peterson tore his and came back the next year and had a HUGE year.

thanks for answerring. i do believe it adds context to the discussion.

fwiw, McGahee sat out an entire rookie year. but you are correct in that he did make two pro bowls.
buffalo ended up trading him off for 2 3rd round picks and a 7th.

Peterson was a long-time pro before he tore his acl. that's a very different question.

if dallas took gurley at 27 and he sat out a full season how would people feel about that selection?

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

thanks for answerring. i do believe it adds context to the discussion.

fwiw, McGahee sat out an entire rookie year. but you are correct in that he did make two pro bowls.
buffalo ended up trading him off for 2 3rd round picks and a 7th.

Peterson was a long-time pro before he tore his acl. that's a very different question.

if dallas took gurley at 27 and he sat out a full season how would people feel about that selection?

I don't think he sits out a full year.

He tore his ACL and ACL repairs and recoverey times have been much better than they used to be.

McGahee tore his ACL, PCL and MCL.

Big Difference there.

Again this is all contingent if he falls to 27. If he falls to 27 I think they have to take him because he is a top 10 talent.

 

[jterrell]

His average vs Ohio st is a bit over 3.5 ypc. He had one carry for -1 yard one game. His next he put up a hair under 5 ypc for 70+. Basically what you should have said is he had one bad game against Ohio st last year.

Only 4 games in his career under 4 ypc when he got 10 carriers or more. One of those being after LSU this year where something wasnt quite right. These things happen to every running back.

Yeah, he had a lot of carries in college....But, so did a lot of successful rbs..peterson had 748 carries, D murray 759, Tomlinson 943, Steven Jackson 743 carries, Emmitt Smith 700, Marshall Faulk 766..... just in this draft, Yeldon 576, abdullah 813, Ajayi 678, Langford 577, David Johnson 866.

Basically, if you dont like the 630 carry neighborhood you are really restricting yourself.

Do you want him to line up in the slot? He probably shouldnt be trusted to do that.

Can he catch a dump off, a screen, a swing pass? Yeah.

Correct it was 3.5 ypc for his career versus OSU. Arguably the only decent defense in the Big 10 he faced. --he missed Mich St the one time they played.

22 catches gives me little to believe he can be a good back out of the backfield.

Naming backs across 25 years to point out high carries working out rather shows why it is a bad idea.
RB all in all is a risky proposition. Wisconsin RBs are doubly so.
High carry RBs more worrisome than less.

End of the day I think Gordon is a talent. But I do not think he is a round 1 talent and I wouldn't take him in round 2 given the depth in this draft at the position.

Considering his overall skillset, position and wear I would put him about player 75.

I completely understand this is not popular opinion so we shall see.

 

[jterrell]

I don't think he sits out a full year.

He tore his ACL and ACL repairs and recoverey times have been much better than they used to be.

McGahee tore his ACL, PCL and MCL.

Big Difference there.

Again this is all contingent if he falls to 27. If he falls to 27 I think they have to take him because he is a top 10 talent.

McGahee did sit out his entire rookie year.
He did tear everything and it was serious.

How serious is Gurley? Do any of us have his medical data? Do you think his agent and him sell it as more serious or less serious than it really is?

Marcus Lattimore is a far more recent case than McGahee but scientific advancements didn't help him much.

I understand your take and why it is very popular I just disagree with it.

We won 12 games last year without Gurley, I don't need him to win but I do need to not waste r1 picks on guys who may not be able to play.
The most important ability is availability.

 

[locked&loaded]

McGahee did sit out his entire rookie year.
He did tear everything and it was serious.

How serious is Gurley? Do any of us have his medical data? Do you think his agent and him sell it as more serious or less serious than it really is?

Marcus Lattimore is a far more recent case than McGahee but scientific advancements didn't help him much.

I understand your take and why it is very popular I just disagree with it.

We won 12 games last year without Gurley, I don't need him to win but I do need to not waste r1 picks on guys who may not be able to play.
The most important ability is availability.

It is impossible to know what will happen with Gurleys knee, but we DO know it was just his acl. Mcgahee tore everything and so did Lattimore, plus he dislocated his kneecap. Both were clearly more gruesome than Gurleys.

still..buyer beware . of course.

 

[jterrell]

It is impossible to know what will happen with Gurleys knee, but we DO know it was just his acl. Mcgahee tore everything and so did Lattimore, plus he dislocated his kneecap. Both were clearly more gruesome than Gurleys.

still..buyer beware . of course.

Gurley refused his knee check up at the combine. He literally didn't let docs see it or test it.
So all the info is coming from his camp which has money invested in the perception of his health.

That's a huge red flag for me.
If healthy he has immense talent no doubt.

If he can pass a team physical before the draft, take him.
If not..., that is a big commitment to a RB.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

McGahee did sit out his entire rookie year.
He did tear everything and it was serious.

How serious is Gurley? Do any of us have his medical data? Do you think his agent and him sell it as more serious or less serious than it really is?

Marcus Lattimore is a far more recent case than McGahee but scientific advancements didn't help him much.

I understand your take and why it is very popular I just disagree with it.

We won 12 games last year without Gurley, I don't need him to win but I do need to not waste r1 picks on guys who may not be able to play.
The most important ability is availability.

I did not say McGahee did not sit out the year.

I said he had an MCL, ACL and PCL tear...not just one, not just two...all three. He also had this in a time where it was quite normal for an ACL alone to be at least one year to heal and play again and some argued that it would take a half a year to another year after that before they were back to normal even if they could play.

Gurley tore has ACL...not ACL, PCL and MCL.

I don't think he sits out HIS (Gurley) full rookie year...I doubt most think he is going to sit out the whole year...I have not even heard that as a strong possibility...Most things I have heard or read said he might sit out a few weeks after the season starts.

Either way. You asked for a name. I gave you a name. You said they sat out a whole season...I said they were coming off an injury that was much worse.

If he falls to 27...unless some other crazy fall happens...he will be far and away the BPA available.

Lattimore had a similar injury as McGahee but Lattimore had a previous injury (torn knee ligament) the year prior to that so he already had a history compounded with the much more serious one his last year.

This is not just two situations where they only had a torn ACL.

You either think he is worth it there or you don't....Personally I think all of this is moot because I think between San Diego, Miami, Arizona and I would not even rule out a wild card like Atlanta....he might not even be there when we pick anyway.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Gurley refused his knee check up at the combine. He literally didn't let docs see it or test it.
So all the info is coming from his camp which has money invested in the perception of his health.

That's a huge red flag for me.
If healthy he has immense talent no doubt.

If he can pass a team physical before the draft, take him.
If not..., that is a big commitment to a RB.

Yes and that worried me.

However it has already been said that his knee will be rechecked.

Yahoo Sports' Rand Getlin reports that "a number of teams" believe Georgia RB Todd Gurley "will be selected before Wisconsin's Melvin Gordon "if his knee checks out."

This month the Georgia prospect plans to return to Indianapolis for a medical recheck with NFL team doctors. The 6-foot-1, 236-pound Gurley should hear his name called in the first round of the draft, but those NFL Scouting Combine medicals will be extremely important for Gurley's first round draft stock. Getlin added in another tweet, that "some teams believe Gordon is likely to have a more significant immediate impact," but "they believe Gurley may be better in the long-term."


Source: Rand Getlin on Twitter
Apr 3 - 3:09 PM
http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/cfb/131526/todd-gurley

 

[Derinyar]

Yes and that worried me.

However it has already been said that his knee will be rechecked.

Yahoo Sports' Rand Getlin reports that "a number of teams" believe Georgia RB Todd Gurley "will be selected before Wisconsin's Melvin Gordon "if his knee checks out."

This month the Georgia prospect plans to return to Indianapolis for a medical recheck with NFL team doctors. The 6-foot-1, 236-pound Gurley should hear his name called in the first round of the draft, but those NFL Scouting Combine medicals will be extremely important for Gurley's first round draft stock. Getlin added in another tweet, that "some teams believe Gordon is likely to have a more significant immediate impact," but "they believe Gurley may be better in the long-term."


Source: Rand Getlin on Twitter
Apr 3 - 3:09 PM
http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/cfb/131526/todd-gurley

His refusal of the medical check I think is mostly explained by the fact that his doctor said not to allow it. I'll give most doctors the benefit of a doubt, but in this case we're talking about the best regarded sports medicine doctors in the nation. If he still refuses at the medical recheck then that raises the red flag. Until that happens I don't think it makes sense to drop him further then the injury has already dropped him.

 

[xwalker]

Let me ask you guys this:
What was the last RB who tore his ACL in his final collegiate season and didn't run before the draft that panned out?

The sample size is probably too small to be relevant.

I remember some people thought Adrian Peterson had too many injury issues to be worth a 1st.