Twitter: Rapoport: The Cowboys are still looking for edge help, hosting former Lions DE Jason Jones

[Idgit]

The philosophy isn't working

It's not working well enough because the young players haven't delivered. Some of that might be the players they selected. Some of it might be the coaches and the development they're getting. Some of it might be that they're still young players and players like Gregory or Wilcox or Wilson or Hitchens or Jones might start to change how we look at them over time.

It doesn't necessarily mean we need to scrap the entire philosophy. Better to isolate the variables that need to be fixed and address them one by one than it is to flip the board in anger and start over when the results we get aren't what we expected immediately.

 

[Sydla]

I guess I needed to elaborate for you. A while back the Cowboy's FO decided to go with younger players, but for some reason, you're not comprehending this philosophy.

You don't need to elaborate anything. You just aren't getting the point.

And if the Cowboys were just about adding young players then why did they contact Weddle? Or bring in Leon Hall for a visit? Or initially talk to Chris Long? If their philosophy was strictly go young players, like you claim they are doing, why even waste their time with these older guys?

The reality is you are overstating their philosophy. They'll take an older player on a short term, team friendly deal. IMO, Ayers was a type of older player that got what would be a friendly contract that the Cowboys should be looking for in free agency instead of going after guys like Vernon Olivier and Janoris Jenkins and overpaying for them or hitting the bargain bin of cheap cast offs from other teams.

Obviously you disagree.

 

[Sydla]

I tend to agree with you in principle, but you can't just look at what appears to be a good deal for a player at a position of need for the Cowboys anywhere in the league and fault the team for not signing that player instead. First of all, there's a first mover advantage. Every team identifies the players they think are the best fit for them, and they pursue them first. We reportedly liked Adrian Clayborn this season, for example. Not enough to really overpay for him though, so he decided to stay put in ATL where he was already situated. We signed Mayawa, obviously because we liked him for what we want to do. As far as I know, we had no interest in Ayers.

Jason Jones, now, appears to have been a borderline case. I think he'd be a good signing, for the record. And I wouldn't mind a small premium on him to bring him in here late in FA. I also don't mind letting him walk without a deal. His agent knows we're interested. They'll check with us before doing anything with another team, and we'll get to decide then if we're willing to play ball. This is a deep draft along the DL, though. I don't mind waiting until after the draft and deciding then whether or not we want to overpay a vet for some insurance.

I get that but then again if the Cowboys can't ascertain that Ayers would likely be a good target that they could get under a fair contract, isn't that kind of the fault of the front office for not knowing that? I understand the first mover advantage but in this case, the Cowboys had time here. Frankly, I'd rather they had gone after Ayers before Clayborn.

This is a deep draft along the DL.............. except for true speed, edge rushers. Which happens to be our biggest need along the DL.

I just don't think the Cowboys handled this offseason, as it pertains to the pass rush, properly. I know many disagree.

 

[CCBoy]

There are coaches underneath Jason Garrett, to include the special team's and defensive coordinator, that are angry bears come game days and on the carpet. If someone isn't producing there, it is allowing very talented players to get by without making plays and just flashing talent.

Once someone, anyone, makes it into Cowboy held territory, someone MUST be made to pay for that. That can be accomplished by a team of can do's, whether young or not.

Cerebral in a passing defence, will get you behind by a couple of scores. Where making every play pay in pain, with garner turn overs and stalled drives. Mistakes accumulate in an opponent, and success snowballs...

This draft, the team need dynamics on the front of the defense, middle, and rear. That means a defensive end, dynamic safety/cornerback, and a play making linebacker. A significant, but mainly mid range trade won in the first pick, can secure all three in the first two rounds.

From there, one can add a good WR, RB, and QB...and elevate the level of play for the depth at offensive skill positions...and also have a progressive and now effect upon the offense. And this accomplished at the third and two fourth rounds level.

 

[jjktkk]

You don't need to elaborate anything. You just aren't getting the point.

And if the Cowboys were just about adding young players then why did they contact Weddle? Or bring in Leon Hall for a visit? Or initially talk to Chris Long? If their philosophy was strictly go young players, like you claim they are doing, why even waste their time with these older guys?

The reality is you are overstating their philosophy. They'll take an older player on a short term, team friendly deal. IMO, Ayers was a type of older player that got what would be a friendly contract that the Cowboys should be looking for in free agency instead of going after guys like Vernon Olivier and Janoris Jenkins and overpaying for them or hitting the bargain bin of cheap cast offs from other teams.

Obviously you disagree.

Oh I get your point just fine, but you're not getting the Cowboy's point of view. I wanted the Cowboys to sign Weddle, or Long, and some others, but I knew the Cowboys were not going to get into a bidding war over past their prime players. I know this because that has been the Cowboy way for a while now.

 

[Idgit]

I get that but then again if the Cowboys can't ascertain that Ayers would likely be a good target that they could get under a fair contract, isn't that kind of the fault of the front office for not knowing that? I understand the first mover advantage but in this case, the Cowboys had time here. Frankly, I'd rather they had gone after Ayers before Clayborn.

This is a deep draft along the DL.............. except for true speed, edge rushers. Which happens to be our biggest need along the DL.

I just don't think the Cowboys handled this offseason, as it pertains to the pass rush, properly. I know many disagree.

Maybe they just didn't like him for what they want to do.

Overall, we were really cheap in FA this year. If we'd sprung for Robinson or, now, Jones, we'd probably feel differently. They were probably pretty close to market on both those guys. Though I'm still not sure the Robinson deal wasn't a situation where Indy had starting snaps available.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

You don't need to elaborate anything. You just aren't getting the point.

And if the Cowboys were just about adding young players then why did they contact Weddle? Or bring in Leon Hall for a visit? Or initially talk to Chris Long? If their philosophy was strictly go young players, like you claim they are doing, why even waste their time with these older guys?

The reality is you are overstating their philosophy. They'll take an older player on a short term, team friendly deal. IMO, Ayers was a type of older player that got what would be a friendly contract that the Cowboys should be looking for in free agency instead of going after guys like Vernon Olivier and Janoris Jenkins and overpaying for them or hitting the bargain bin of cheap cast offs from other teams.

Obviously you disagree.

Both of you are missing the point.

This team is about getting younger AND not paying age.

Sure they'll look at a Weddle and a Long and a Hall. Occasionally they will sign some of those guys. But it won't be at inflated prices.

We aren't going to routinely give an Ayers 8m a season or drop 9m on a Goldson.

The Cowboys have told you exactly how they are approaching the world. The gnashing of teeth is just odd given these facts.

Stop shaking your fists at the sun.

 

[davey999]

Both of you are missing the point.

This team is about getting younger AND not paying age.

Sure they'll look at a Weddle and a Long and a Hall. Occasionally they will sign some of those guys. But it won't be at inflated prices.

We aren't going to routinely give an Ayers 8m a season or drop 9m on a Goldson.

The Cowboys have told you exactly how they are approaching the world. The gnashing of teeth is just odd given these facts.

Stop shaking your fists at the sun.

Just because they tell us what they want to do, does not mean we have to agree with it.

With the results we've seen, criticism seems justified.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Just because they tell us what they want to do, does not mean we have to agree with it.

With the results we've seen, criticism seems justified.

Again this team went 12-4 and then won the subsequent offseason. Not a single team could have claimed to have added more encouraging talent.

If you want to blame the front office for not having a backup all pro qb and a backup all pro wr and blame them for Hardy not being who we thought he was.... be my guest.

But that dog doesn't hunt.

 

[LittleD]

Just because they tell us what they want to do, does not mean we have to agree with it.

With the results we've seen, criticism seems justified.

You can disagree and you can criticize but, does that really do any good in the long run.
The FO, coaches, scouts, team are not listening to you or me. The only thing that matters to
Jerry and his family is whether you guys keep buying his merchandise, going to games, filling
up his stadium, enlarging his bank account. When that stops happening, something will be
adjusted...but until???

 

[Stash]

Both of you are missing the point.

This team is about getting younger AND not paying age.

Sure they'll look at a Weddle and a Long and a Hall. Occasionally they will sign some of those guys. But it won't be at inflated prices.

We aren't going to routinely give an Ayers 8m a season or drop 9m on a Goldson.

The Cowboys have told you exactly how they are approaching the world. The gnashing of teeth is just odd given these facts.

Stop shaking your fists at the sun.

So they'll follow the plan, right up until the time that they don't? Great strategy and one guaranteed to work every single time.

Just like Garrett's 'right kind of guy' mantra. Sounds great, right up to the point where the team signs a bad guy like Greg Hardy because they have to.

 

[Stash]

Again this team went 12-4 and then won the subsequent offseason. Not a single team could have claimed to have added more encouraging talent.

And they went 8-8 for 3 years before and 4-12 the year after, despite all of the talent that was added.

If you want to blame the front office for not having a backup all pro qb and a backup all pro wr and blame them for Hardy not being who we thought he was.... be my guest.

But that dog doesn't hunt.

No, we can blame them for not having any backup quarterback. Blame them for totally missing on each and every quarterback not named Tony Romo. That dog will hunt. Because the facts and numbers are there to prove it.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

And they went 8-8 for 3 years before.

I remember when @Alexander said with a straight face nobody ever brings up the 8-8 years.

 

[Stash]

I remember when @Alexander said with a straight face nobody ever brings up the 8-8 years.

And why wouldn't they bring it up?