Twitter: Rapoport: The Cowboys are still looking for edge help, hosting former Lions DE Jason Jones

[davey999]

Patriots being much more active this offseason than us. Makes sense.

 

[LittleD]

Actually I don't believe that at all, which is the point I've been making all along. You can't just magically fix the pass rush picking up bodies off the street after you've waited out the market.

Each year, maybe one or two or three quality pass rushers hit the market and usually it's because the guy has a problem (Hardy, for example) or the team simply has to make decisions with regards to cap, allocation of monies, etc. (Robert Ayers for example, DeMarcus Ware when we cut him). Once those guys go off the board, you are left with trying to hit in the draft or get extremely lucky that some guy falls off a turnip truck somewhere after June 1 and ends up being a real player for you.

Be patient. McClay found Selvie during TC and he was just sitting on his couch. He had 8 sacks and that is better than what Jones
had last year. Selvie was paid squat! There will be guys out there to sign that Marinelli can use before the season starts.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Simple question now that you look at the current makeup of the team. Would Ayers have been an improvement to the pass rush? Just an improvement, not the next Von Miller or JJ Watt, but on a team that needs a lot of help at pass rush, would Ayers have been an improvement on the current roster?

Oh if you want to argue improvement... There would have been some improvement there.

But not at the cost.

That's the challenge here... You've got $100 to work with and most of it is spent.

An NFL team simply can't spend it's way to fix all of its holes.

In addition Ayres is 30 years old so you're starting to pay for age.

And it's not like Ayers has a big-time rep as a sackmaster... not at 26.5 career sacks.

 

[Sydla]

Be patient. McClay found Selvie during TC and he was just sitting on his couch. He had 8 sacks and that is better than what Jones
had last year. Selvie was paid squat! There will be guys out there to sign that Marinelli can use before the season starts.

Hope you are right. Pass rush is arguably the biggest issue this team faces other than the Romo injury factor.

 

[Sydla]

Oh if you want to argue improvement... There would have been some improvement there.

But not at the cost.

That's the challenge here... You've got $100 to work with and most of it is spent.

An NFL team simply can't spend it's way to fix all of its holes.

In addition Ayres is 30 years old so you're starting to pay for age.

And it's not like Ayers has a big-time rep as a sackmaster... not at 26.5 career sacks.

Ayers signed a contract that pays him $7.5MM this year and the Bucs can cut him at the start of the league year next year and have no dead money at all. So essentially, he's on a one year contract for $7.5MM. So let's not act like he signed this big deal that will have the Bucs swimming in bad cap space as he gets older. I'd have paid $7.5MM for Ayers this year and not have to worry about him beyond this season in a heartbeat. Immediate impact, improves pass rush and doesn't prevent the Cowboys from doing anything down the road by leaving them with dead money if he disappoints or gets hurt. Perfect scenario too in that it allows Gregory and maybe a rookie DE you pick this year to grow and then take over if you let Ayers walk after one year.

Also, you do realize that one reason why Ayers has low sacks numbers is that the Broncos played him out of position the first few years in the league at OLB, right? He moved back to a 4-3 DE in 2012 and had 20 sacks over the 2013-2015 seasons. That easily would be our 2nd best pass rusher behind Lawrence on this team.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Be patient. McClay found Selvie during TC and he was just sitting on his couch. He had 8 sacks and that is better than what Jones
had last year. Selvie was paid squat! There will be guys out there to sign that Marinelli can use before the season starts.

Finally the voice of reason.

 

[Stash]

Stash, here's the same issue we have discussed often. If they team felt desperate, they would have gone after every DE in FA which they
clearly didn't. They focused on a couple but, in the end they chose not to come to the Cowboys probably because they wanted more money
and the Cowboys did not see them worth that much money. I think they viewed the Hardy signing last year as a bust and mostly wasted money
and they are continuing that budget practice again this season. I guarantee that Marinelli will have at least 12 DL as we go to training camp and
that he will likely have 8 available for the 1st game of the season. Will they be better than 2014 or 2015, who knows? I can say that without
Romo, this team will go nowhere and will be picking in the top 5 again next draft.

So, in short, your point is "who know's?" That's what I essentially got from it after all was said.

My position is that this team gets a pass from many fans that they frankly haven't earned and don't deserve. They get it because fans want to believe, even when evidence shows them otherwise. Fans want to assume that the people running their favorite team know what they're doing when the results suggest otherwise.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Ayers signed a contract that pays him $7.5MM this year and the Bucs can cut him at the start of the league year next year and have no dead money at all. So essentially, he's on a one year contract for $7.5MM. So let's not act like he signed this big deal that will have the Bucs swimming in bad cap space as he gets older. I'd have paid $7.5MM for Ayers this year and not have to worry about him beyond this season in a heartbeat. Immediate impact, improves pass rush and doesn't prevent the Cowboys from doing anything down the road by leaving them with dead money if he disappoints or gets hurt. Perfect scenario too in that it allows Gregory and maybe a rookie DE you pick this year to grow and then take over if you let Ayers walk after one year.

Also, you do realize that one reason why Ayers has low sacks numbers is that the Broncos played him out of position the first few years in the league at OLB, right? He moved back to a 4-3 DE in 2012 and had 20 sacks over the 2013-2015 seasons. That easily would be our 2nd best pass rusher behind Lawrence on this team.

He's still 30 years old.

And for that 7.5 mil the Cowboys added 3 players.

In addition the draft is still there... I would bet another DE will be added.

 

[gmoney112]

Oh if you want to argue improvement... There would have been some improvement there.

But not at the cost.

That's the challenge here... You've got $100 to work with and most of it is spent.

An NFL team simply can't spend it's way to fix all of its holes.

In addition Ayres is 30 years old so you're starting to pay for age.

And it's not like Ayers has a big-time rep as a sackmaster... not at 26.5 career sacks.

In 2014 he was the most efficient pass rusher on a per snap basis. In 2015, he was a top 10 pass rusher on that Giants DL that had George Selvie starting and a guy that blew off his hand.

I also don't think his salary is guaranteed after 2016 and no signing bonus, so they basically signed him on a rent to own contract at 7.5mill for 2016.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

In 2014 he was the most efficient pass rusher on a per snap basis. In 2015, he was a top 10 pass rusher on that Giants DL that had George Selvie starting and a guy that blew off his hand.

I also don't think his salary is guaranteed after 2016 and no signing bonus, so they basically signed him on a rent to own contract at 7.5mill for 2016.

Yep that's what Sydia posted. If this was a SB quality team that lacked one pass rusher, I could see, but with so many holes... I'm taking the kid they picked up from Oakland, Morris and G/C they just signed for about the same money.

 

[Sydla]

Yep that's what Sydia posted. If this was a SB quality team that lacked one pass rusher, I could see, but with so many holes... I'm taking the kid they picked up from Oakland, Morris and G/C they just signed for about the same money.

So in other words, you'd rather have 3 backups than a starting DE who could help your biggest problem area on defense?

And reality is, if the Cowboys wanted to sign those three AND sign Ayers, they could have done it. It wasn't that they couldn't do Ayers, it was that they just want to go cheap on DE. We'll see how that turns out.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

So in other words, you'd rather have 3 backups than a starting DE who could help your biggest problem area on defense?

And reality is, if the Cowboys wanted to sign those three AND sign Ayers, they could have done it. It wasn't that they couldn't do Ayers, it was that they just want to go cheap on DE. We'll see how that turns out.

I'm not sure the kid signed from Oakland is going to be a back up.

And yeah they probably could have done both, but for a 30YO DE for essentially a one-year contract to team with as many holes as this one?

I can see the logic in not doing that.

In addition if the Giants thought he was all that, they would have retained him.

 

[Sydla]

I'm not sure the kid signed from Oakland is going to be a back up.

And yeah they probably could have done both, but for a 30YO DE for essentially a one-year contract to team with as many holes as this one?

I can see the logic in not doing that.

In addition if the Giants thought he was all that, they would have retained him.

The Giants didn't retain him because they had cap space to burn and signed a 25 year old to a big contract as his replacement. They didn't need Ayers so why pay him $7.5MM to be a back up at DE?

The Cowboys don't have the luxury of already having two upper echelon young DEs now on their team making a lot of money like the Giants do (granted one only has one hand). Cowboys have one guy who is coming off a back procedure, another guy who is suspended 4 games and one failed drug test from missing an entire season and then nothing else other than a scrap heap guy from Oakland who apparently is really athletic.

And I fail to see the logic in not wanting to take on a decent pass rushing end who is 30 on a one year deal as it pertains to holes. Because we haven't really filled any of our big holes anyway. Ayers would have filled a big hole, at least for one season, in a time where the owner says we are in win now mode with Romo. Frankly, Ayers' contract was perfect for the situation we are in. One year deal, no cap hit beyond this year if we cut him after the season, however, if he played well, the Cowboys then have him for only $6MM in 2017 and no dead money in 2017.

An ideal contract for the Cowboys at a position they need a lot of help.

Mayowa starting?

 

[LittleD]

So, in short, your point is "who know's?" That's what I essentially got from it after all was said.

My position is that this team gets a pass from many fans that they frankly haven't earned and don't deserve. They get it because fans want to believe, even when evidence shows them otherwise. Fans want to assume that the people running their favorite team know what they're doing when the results suggest otherwise.

That's what fans (fanatics) do. What else would you expect? If you're not a fan why would you waste your time commenting on this board.
I want the Cowboys to do well and follow them just as I have since 1960. Will they disappointment me...likely since only one team a year
can win the SB while 31 others are losers.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

The Giants didn't retain him because they had cap space to burn and signed a 25 year old to a big contract as his replacement. They didn't need Ayers so why pay him $7.5MM to be a back up at DE?

The Cowboys don't have the luxury of already having two upper echelon young DEs now on their team making a lot of money like the Giants do (granted one only has one hand). Cowboys have one guy who is coming off a back procedure, another guy who is suspended 4 games and one failed drug test from missing an entire season and then nothing else other than a scrap heap guy from Oakland who apparently is really athletic.

And I fail to see the logic in not wanting to take on a decent pass rushing end who is 30 on a one year deal as it pertains to holes. Because we haven't really filled any of our big holes anyway. Ayers would have filled a big hole, at least for one season, in a time where the owner says we are in win now mode with Romo. Frankly, Ayers' contract was perfect for the situation we are in. One year deal, no cap hit beyond this year if we cut him after the season, however, if he played well, the Cowboys then have him for only $6MM in 2017 and no dead money in 2017.

An ideal contract for the Cowboys at a position they need a lot of help.

Mayowa starting?

I can see the logic of it.

And it could become even more logical if the take another DE early in the draft.

Starters? We'll see by the end of August.

 

[gmoney112]

The Giants didn't retain him because they had cap space to burn and signed a 25 year old to a big contract as his replacement. They didn't need Ayers so why pay him $7.5MM to be a back up at DE?

The Cowboys don't have the luxury of already having two upper echelon young DEs now on their team making a lot of money like the Giants do (granted one only has one hand). Cowboys have one guy who is coming off a back procedure, another guy who is suspended 4 games and one failed drug test from missing an entire season and then nothing else other than a scrap heap guy from Oakland who apparently is really athletic.

And I fail to see the logic in not wanting to take on a decent pass rushing end who is 30 on a one year deal as it pertains to holes. Because we haven't really filled any of our big holes anyway. Ayers would have filled a big hole, at least for one season, in a time where the owner says we are in win now mode with Romo. Frankly, Ayers' contract was perfect for the situation we are in. One year deal, no cap hit beyond this year if we cut him after the season, however, if he played well, the Cowboys then have him for only $6MM in 2017 and no dead money in 2017.

An ideal contract for the Cowboys at a position they need a lot of help.

Mayowa starting?

I can see both sides but I tend to agree with you, basically how I see it. That contract was tailor made for us. Honestly, I think Dallas probably expected him to get more guaranteed so they didn't pursue him.

I just can't see the value in going so cheap on DE, when you have 15 mill allocated to Carr/Church/Wilcox this season, when you're in our situation at least.

Just cutting Church+Wilcox would have saved us 6 million. I actually like the Oakland guy, but I'd rather have Ayers or Williams for 1-2 million more over Barry and JJ whose contracts are actually up after the 2016 season anyway. Give me a quality DE over a mediocre SS and probable safety backup (at best). Don't even get me started on Carr, haha.

I just don't think they were very aggressive in getting the guys they needed, and have been too sentimental towards guys with tenure. A 7-8 mill 1-2 year rental on, arguably, the most important position on a 4-3 defense isn't expensive or overpaying.

Maybe if Tony was 30, it'd make more sense to me. But in this case, I'd be manipulating the cap as much as possible to get players on defense, while still being able to resign the young OL and possibly Lawrence when it's time, which honestly wouldn't have been that big a deal if the cap keeps increasing.

Tony shouldn't have to have the best QB rating in the NFL just to get to a Divisional round playoff game.

 

[jjktkk]

All I know is that quite a few fans on here ripped Jerry a new one(deserved) for handing out contracts to older players, and getting burned for it. Now the organization is trying to be frugal in handing out contracts, and fans are complaining because he's not overpaying for, past their prime, veteran players. Can't have it both ways.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

There's a difference between overpaying a guy and paying a market rate for a guy.

Seems Dallas is taking a third option.............. low balling guys hoping some will bite.

We paid d market rate for Carr.

Are you arguing we didn't overpay?

 

[CCBoy]

So in other words, you'd rather have 3 backups than a starting DE who could help your biggest problem area on defense?

And reality is, if the Cowboys wanted to sign those three AND sign Ayers, they could have done it. It wasn't that they couldn't do Ayers, it was that they just want to go cheap on DE. We'll see how that turns out.

And this is the dawn of Aquarius, so the alignment of earth and the moon seem to be conducive to entering into fall out from the tail of Haley's Comet...

No, the policy for the past four seasons, was that unless the parameters for a proven need player hit also the age to be fruitful for a policy, a high sum was not going to be offered for that player.

Now, in a similar picture to what Hardy received last season, there was no one, in the escalated market, that complied with the standard set above. Other combinations and manipulations were already off the table...if one wishes to discuss the realities, then next...if not, own up to what was on the table.

 

[fivetwos]

Ladies and Gentlemen.....THE DALLAS COWBOYS......where many marginal free agent players go for a free steak before signing elsewhere.

Wait. Maybe that's it. Is Jerry making these guys pay for the meal during the visit??

Alfred Morris, being frugal himself, respected that and was the only one to sign.