RAS Cowboys TEs

[Havic]

Schoon will be 30 at the end of his first contract. Perfect time to cut and run or trade

 

[Mac_MaloneV1]

I agree. The argument really shouldn't be about is this true or not but to what extent it's true. Especially the younger a player is. I can go watch a single A minor league baseball game where scouts rave out this 20-year-old that is tearing up the league, but hardly care about the 21-year-old with similar numbers because hes "old for the league". As you get into the mid 20s the difference isn't as drastic but still needs to be factored into the equation. I think age and how long they've been in school matter in regard to these drills. A 5th year senior has had 5 years with college trainers to prep specifically for these drills and have gone over technique time and time again. Once these guys get into the league they don't care about their 40 times, and specific techniques to run the 3 cone as they'll never run these again.

For sure, and it's true in every sport, really. I would also say that a year as a pro is going to get you more physical development than a year in college just because you have more free time (although that might depend on how much schooling a player actually does lol).

The bolded is also an important point. Guys who spend more time training for the combine specifically are at an advantage. A lot of players probably never bench press after the combine.

 

[Hennessy_King]

Even average NFL athletes are amazing physical specimens. That’s about the only explanation I got for ya.

Nah hurdling another grown man is on another level. Schoonbummer can't even break a tackle

 

[Spottswoode]

Why can’t people accept that drafting is an inexact science based on many unknowns. They measure arm length in 1/8ths of inches…...1/8th... I’ve got fingernails longer than that. This is the football version of MoneyBall.

Teams look for any metrics that could improve the success of prospect evaluations. Agree or disagree, the people making the evaluations place some degree of weight on these metrics. They leave no stone unturned if they think it can improve their odds.

 

[HungryLion]

It's not about faster, it's about more explosive. Broad, vertical, even 3-cone can all improve.

They're professional athletes. The ones who don't develop physically don't have long careers.

Im not saying they don’t improve. They can

That being said. Schoonmaker being a couple years older doesnt itself alone explain why his RAS is so high compared to Ferguson for example. No matter what Ferguson does he is not going to match him athletically.


There are other factors that affect it as well besides age. Like genetics, injury history, work ethic/training ethic, etc.

 

[HungryLion]

Nah hurdling another grown man is on another level. Schoonbummer can't even break a tackle

I think there’s a lot of players that could hurdle other guys if they wanted to. They just don’t want to risk the injury.

 

[Creeper]

I am not sure what the argument is. We like what we saw from Ferguson and Hendershot last year. I actually think they can get more out of Hendershot because he looks like he has better RAC ability but Fergusons showed some ability as well, along with some grit. Of course one of these guys will not see the field as much but we'll see how they all look. Schoonmaker maybe go drafted too high but only time will tell.

 

[Mac_MaloneV1]

Im not saying they don’t improve. They can

That being said. Schoonmaker being a couple years older doesnt itself alone explain why his RAS is so high compared to Ferguson for example. No matter what Ferguson does he is not going to match him athletically.


There are other factors that affect it as well besides age. Like genetics, injury history, work ethic/training ethic, etc.

Ok sure.

Ferguson had a poor RAS who plays like a better athlete, and Schoon is a high RAS who plays like a worse athlete. Fundamentally, they're the same player on game day, as it relates to athleticism.

 

[xwalker]

I think there’s a lot of players that could hurdle other guys if they wanted to. They just don’t want to risk the injury.

Nah hurdling another grown man is on another level. Schoonbummer can't even break a tackle

Teams could save a lot of time and money.

Eliminate watching game footage and eliminate the combine and pro days...

Just do the hurdle test...

Rico Gathers might have been drafted #1 overall based in that criteria...

 

[HungryLion]

Ok sure.

Ferguson had a poor RAS who plays like a better athlete, and Schoon is a high RAS who plays like a worse athlete. Fundamentally, they're the same player on game day, as it relates to athleticism.

Thanks for sharing your opinion. I’m gonna wait until I see them both on an NFL field to make my conclusion though.

Rather than rely on your “well he is older so he scored better on the RAS” assumption.

 

[Mac_MaloneV1]

Thanks for sharing your opinion. I’m gonna wait until I see them both on an NFL field to make my conclusion though.

Rather than rely on your “well he is older so he scored better on the RAS” assumption.

You are wildly misrepresenting what I said.

 

[HungryLion]

You are wildly misrepresenting what I said.

You said they’re fundamentally the same
Player on game day. I said I’m going to wait until I see them both on an NFL field before I make that determination.

 

[Mac_MaloneV1]

You said they’re fundamentally the same
Player on game day. I said I’m going to wait until I see them both on an NFL field before I make that determination.

The RAS part, as it relates to age.

 

[HungryLion]

The RAS part, as it relates to age.

Yeah I don’t think Fergusons RAS numbers will ever get as high as Schoonmakers.

That’s not the end all be all. But there are just as many athletes who lose athleticism with age due to various other factors, rather than gain. There are way more variables than just their age that goes into it. IMO

 

[Hoofbite]

Why can’t people accept that drafting is an inexact science based on many unknowns. They measure arm length in 1/8ths of inches…...1/8th... I’ve got fingernails longer than that. This is the football version of MoneyBall.

Teams look for any metrics that could improve the success of prospect evaluations. Agree or disagree, the people making the evaluations place some degree of weight on these metrics. They leave no stone unturned if they think it can improve their odds.

I wouldn't say it's like Money Ball. It's more like Power Ball.

Money Ball (at least as the story was told in the movie) was based on objective outcomes. OPS, RBIs, RISP, etc. RAS is basically just saying "this could be good" so I'm gonna gamble and hope it is. Entirely different and entirely subjective because there really are no outcomes to measure. If a player produced enough, RAS wouldn't even be a part of the discussion because production is all that matters.

Granted, RAS is a new one for me but I don't really see the utility. Anyone remember Todd Lowbar? On Hard Knocks back in the day, Jason Garrett's father basically said if you can't get something out of him then you don't know what you're doing. I bet his RAS was through the roof, but he did nothing. Every year you see these athletic freaks who do nothing. Isiah Stanbeck was supposed to be super athletic...he caught 6 balls in 4 years. Megatron would have probably had an amazing RAS score, but you didn't need that to see he was a monster. Just turn on his college tape. Randy Moss is probably one of the most athletically-gifted people to walk the planet and I would wager that RAS would still place a number of people above him even though they never amounted to anything close to what Moss has.

Every year there's some new-fangled measurement that is supposed to indicate someone's ability or future potential. If I were a scout and some draft prospect's agent came into the office and mentioned RAS, the meeting would end right there and then. I'm not interested in some hypothetical outcome based on measurements. Production is all that matters. Can the guy play is the only thing I am concerned about.

 

[Cowboysheelsreds058]

haha yes yes, that was what i was going for!

Lol

 

[BaybeeJay]

For me, it just reminds me of when we used all those 2nd round picks on TEs while we had Witten (Escobar, Bennett, Fasano).

Different times, but I remember really hating those picks.

 

[Airbiscuit]

Schoonmaker doesn't play like a RAS guy. He's also 1000 years old, so he's pretty much fully developed athletically.

That said, he can go make all of the same plays in the passing game that Schultz did.

He’s also making $10M less than Schultz

 

[Spottswoode]

If a player produced enough, RAS wouldn't even be a part of the discussion because production is all that matters.

But this just isn’t reality. If that were true, Nathaniel Dell and Charlie Jones should have been the first receivers off the board. The reality is teams have to make determinations on whether college production will transfer to the pro’s. Like it or not, athleticism is one of many metrics teams use to identify potentially transferable skill sets.

 

[Spottswoode]

RAS is basically just saying "this could be good" so I'm gonna gamble and hope it is

I think you misunderstand RAS. Athleticism is something that NFL teams deem an important variable when competing against the best players in the world.

Someone didn’t wake up one day and say let’s create a new test and call it RAS. They have run simulations and used historical scores to see if RAS scores can indicate trends in NFL player performance. It’s not a fix all…nothing is. It’s just one of the measures used to try to increase their odds.

Some teams and coaches place more value on the metric than others. But if you think they are just throwing darts, you may be underestimating just how big of a business the college draft is.