Ray Lewis to Dallas? Heard a rumor...

[CaptainAmerica]

Ray wants a paycheck, thats it.

We've learned the hardway about paying guys over 30 and wondering why they suddenly look like they've stopped trying.

Jerry will never learn.

 

[5Countem5]

And then appears to have paid off the witnesses to change testimony.


I wouldn't have this guy for nothing in the world.

He signs here, I'll have some Cowboys gear on E-Bay the next day.

Wow! Turning in the fancard, huh?

 

[tyke1doe]

Shame no one was talking this much when Lewis & Co murdered those 2 guys.

Ray Lewis didn't murder anyone. Obstructing justice? Yes. But he was no murderer.

The Fulton County DA's office was quick to charge Ray with murder (trying to seize upon a celebrity), but anyone who followed that case knew that was an idiotic charge and the DA had no chance of getting a murder conviction.

But let's not let the facts get in the way of a good conspiracy rant.

 

[Wrangler87]

Wow! Turning in the fancard, huh?

yep.

I said it before and I'll say it again. This is the only guy on the planet that we could sign that would cause me to stop cheering for the Cowboys after 23 years. Though never proven guilty, I feel he was directly related to the outcome of the crime he was accused of and used his assets to get himself off the hook. I can not possibly allow myself to cheer for an individual that I feel was involved in a crime of that magnitude.

Had I known then what I know now about Pacman, I might have done it last year.

You have to draw the line somewhere. Some things are bigger than NFL football.

When I was 8 years old, I picked the Cowboys as my favorite team because they were the good guys. The Landry's, White's Dorsett's and Staubach's. The represented what was good about heroes. Over the years this team has changed. Now we are known as the team that will sign the biggest thug available. I can live with that to some extent. But, with Ray Lewis, I will draw the line.

 

[Wrangler87]

Ray Lewis didn't murder anyone. Obstructing justice? Yes. But he was no murderer.

The Fulton County DA's office was quick to charge Ray with murder (trying to seize upon a celebrity), but anyone who followed that case knew that was an idiotic charge and the DA had no chance of getting a murder conviction.

But let's not let the facts get in the way of a good conspiracy rant.

Bull.

Despite his accomplishments on the field, Lewis' public image was tarnished following a Super Bowl party on January 31, 2000. Following the party, a fight broke out and Jacinth Baker, 21, and Richard Lollar, 24, died from stab wounds. Lewis and two companions, Reginald Oakley and Joseph Sweeting, were brought to an Atlanta police station for questioning. Eleven days later, along with Oakley and Sweeting, Lewis was indicted for murder and aggravated assault.
During the trial, several witnesses whose testimony would supposedly prove Lewis’ guilt had altered their stories initially given to investigators. Their testimonies were supposed to show that Ray Lewis hit, kicked or stabbed someone, and that he even admitted as much afterwards. Instead, the vast majority of testimony had either been inconclusive, or else supported the defense’s contention that Lewis acted solely as a peacemaker, trying to prevent a tragedy that he would be tied to and potentially hurt his career. According to ESPN legal analyst, Alan J. Baverman, "as to Ray Lewis, there is no evidence that he assisted anybody in a stabbing or encouraged anybody to do a stabbing which would make him a party to felony murder, malice murder, or felony assault with a knife."[16]
Lewis's attorney arranged with prosecutors to dismiss the murder charges if Lewis pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor charge of obstruction of justice[17] in exchange for him testifying against Oakley and Sweeting. Lewis accepted the plea bargain and was sentenced to one year of probation. He was not suspended by the NFL but was fined US$250,000, a league record at the time.
Oakley and Sweeting were acquitted of the charges in June 2000. No other suspects have ever been arrested for the crime.
The following year, Lewis was named Super Bowl XXXV MVP. However, due to the controversy, he did not get the endorsements or the Disney World trip offered to recent MVP recipients. The signature phrase "I'm going to Disney World!" was given instead by quarterback Trent Dilfer.
On April 29, 2004, Lewis reached a settlement with four-year-old India Lollar, born months after the death of her father Richard, preempting a scheduled civil proceeding. [18] Lewis also reached an undisclosed settlement with Baker's family.

 

[tyke1doe]

Bullcrap. The witness all changed there testimony when the trial rolled around. I wonder why? The DA was left with nothing after the witnesses bailed.

I followed this case. I know.

I see your BC and raise your a BS.

The police were "gunning" for Ray Lewis because he was the big name involved in this case. Of course, they're going to try to pin it on Ray. That's how criminal investigations usually proceed. Police and DA's are immune to the spotlight. Once they heard Ray was someway involved, they started to shake down Ray's buddies trying to get them to pin it on him.

But shaky testimony via interrogation rarely stands up on its own after it filters through the investigative and litigative process.

You mean to tell me that of all these witnesses, they couldn't produce ONE who would link Ray to the murder?

It was a shaky case to begin with. And instead of going after Ray for obstruction of justice (which should have been the charge all along), the Fulton County DA's office tries for the big charge because it involved Ray Lewis.

The case was a shame, which is why the DA so quickly accepted the lesser charge.

 

[Wrangler87]

I see your BC and raise your a BS.

The police were "gunning" for Ray Lewis because he was the big name involved in this case. Of course, they're going to try to pin it on Ray. That's how criminal investigations usually proceed. Police and DA's are immune to the spotlight. Once they heard Ray was someway involved, they started to shake down Ray's buddies trying to get them to pin it on him.

But shaky testimony via interrogation rarely stands up on its own after it filters through the investigative and litigative process.

You mean to tell me that of all these witnesses, they couldn't produce ONE who would link Ray to the murder?

It was a shaky case to begin with. And instead of going after Ray for obstruction of justice (which should have been the charge all along), the Fulton County DA's office tries for the big charge because it involved Ray Lewis.

The case was a shame, which is why the DA so quickly accepted the lesser charge.

Yeah, funny how that works huh? They all just happened to realize that they were wrong the first time around. And how about those civil settlements that followed?

Don't school me on the system, it is my world.

 

[5Countem5]

Yeah, funny how that works huh? They all just happened to realize that they were wrong the first time around. And how about those civil settlements that followed?

Don't school me on the system, it is my world.

It's my world too...


And you are reaching, big time.

 

[tyke1doe]

Bull.

Despite his accomplishments on the field, Lewis' public image was tarnished following a Super Bowl party on January 31, 2000. Following the party, a fight broke out and Jacinth Baker, 21, and Richard Lollar, 24, died from stab wounds. Lewis and two companions, Reginald Oakley and Joseph Sweeting, were brought to an Atlanta police station for questioning. Eleven days later, along with Oakley and Sweeting, Lewis was indicted for murder and aggravated assault.
During the trial, several witnesses whose testimony would supposedly prove Lewis’ guilt had altered their stories initially given to investigators. Their testimonies were supposed to show that Ray Lewis hit, kicked or stabbed someone, and that he even admitted as much afterwards. Instead, the vast majority of testimony had either been inconclusive, or else supported the defense’s contention that Lewis acted solely as a peacemaker, trying to prevent a tragedy that he would be tied to and potentially hurt his career. According to ESPN legal analyst, Alan J. Baverman, "as to Ray Lewis, there is no evidence that he assisted anybody in a stabbing or encouraged anybody to do a stabbing which would make him a party to felony murder, malice murder, or felony assault with a knife."[16]
Lewis's attorney arranged with prosecutors to dismiss the murder charges if Lewis pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor charge of obstruction of justice[17] in exchange for him testifying against Oakley and Sweeting. Lewis accepted the plea bargain and was sentenced to one year of probation. He was not suspended by the NFL but was fined US$250,000, a league record at the time.
Oakley and Sweeting were acquitted of the charges in June 2000. No other suspects have ever been arrested for the crime.
The following year, Lewis was named Super Bowl XXXV MVP. However, due to the controversy, he did not get the endorsements or the Disney World trip offered to recent MVP recipients. The signature phrase "I'm going to Disney World!" was given instead by quarterback Trent Dilfer.
On April 29, 2004, Lewis reached a settlement with four-year-old India Lollar, born months after the death of her father Richard, preempting a scheduled civil proceeding. [18] Lewis also reached an undisclosed settlement with Baker's family.

I like how you highlight one part but not the other.

Hey, I'll do it for you.

Instead, the vast majority of testimony had either been inconclusive, or else supported the defense’s contention that Lewis acted solely as a peacemaker, trying to prevent a tragedy that he would be tied to and potentially hurt his career. According to ESPN legal analyst, Alan J. Baverman, "as to Ray Lewis, there is no evidence that he assisted anybody in a stabbing or encouraged anybody to do a stabbing which would make him a party to felony murder, malice murder, or felony assault with a knife."

Here's the problem with your argument:

1. You were not privy to the police interrogations. But we are privy to what they said on the stand.

2. How likely is it that ALL those witnesses who connected Ray Lewis to the crime would change their stories? Doesn't that sound strange to you?

3. If Ray Lewis was involved in this stabbing, and these witnesses saw all this, why could none of them lead investigators to the knife, the bloody clothes Ray supposedly ditched, etc?

4. You're relying on the testimony of "thugs," who will say anything to get out of a criminal charge? The interrogation process is grueling, and suspects have been known to say "anything" to the police just to get them off their backs.

5. You're focusing on "circumstantial" evidence that wasn't even supported in open court. And if you're going to rely on these "so-called" witnesses, what evidence do you have to support why they changed their story?

At the most, Ray Lewis was guilty of protecting his boys. That's the evidencee we have available. We have no evidence that he stabbed anyone.

Now maybe in your mind he's a murderer, but, fortunately, our court system doesn't work that way. He's no murderer, and if you believe so, I'll ask you to produce evidence to support your claim.

I'll be waiting.

 

[Boyzmamacita]

yep.

I said it before and I'll say it again. This is the only guy on the planet that we could sign that would cause me to stop cheering for the Cowboys after 23 years. Though never proven guilty, I feel he was directly related to the outcome of the crime he was accused of and used his assets to get himself off the hook. I can not possibly allow myself to cheer for an individual that I feel was involved in a crime of that magnitude.

Had I known then what I know now about Pacman, I might have done it last year.

You have to draw the line somewhere. Some things are bigger than NFL football.

When I was 8 years old, I picked the Cowboys as my favorite team because they were the good guys. The Landry's, White's Dorsett's and Staubach's. The represented what was good about heroes. Over the years this team has changed. Now we are known as the team that will sign the biggest thug available. I can live with that to some extent. But, with Ray Lewis, I will draw the line.

Are you kidding? Those Cowboys had their fair share of folks who had run-ins with the law back then. Hollywood Henderson, Bob Hayes, Rafael Septien, Lance Rentzel. I could go on. Every team has individuals who make bonehead mistakes and break the law. I became a Cowboys fan because I fell in love with a guy named Tony Hill, then came to realize that the guys around him were pretty special too. They weren't perfect and they weren't saints. Who is? But they filled the hearts of a teenage girl who was just learning about football. I've been hooked ever since and I would never stop being a fan because Michael Irvin got caught with drugs or because Pacman and Tank Johnson were signed. I've been a fan of the team and the organization for 30 years and counting. I don't understand the jump ship mentality just because a few individuals are not perfect.

 

[Spectre]

I know this guy...
who works at Walmart. And he sold toilet paper to this lady who's married to this other guy who works on a golf course... and he overheard these 2 guys talking about this girl who waits tables at this place where this guy and his wife were talking about this man who drives a cab and ran into this dude who works for this other guy that knows this person who talked to this boy that delivers pizza to this woman who said she heard the Dallas Cowboys are going to trade for Peyton Manning.

 

[Bleu Star]

I know this guy...
who works at Walmart. And he sold toilet paper to this lady who's married to this other guy who works on a golf course... and he overheard these 2 guys talking about this girl who waits tables at this place where this guy and his wife were talking about this man who drives a cab and ran into this dude who works for this other guy that knows this person who talked to this boy that delivers pizza to this woman who said she heard the Dallas Cowboys are going to trade for Peyton Manning.

I see what you did there.

 

[tyke1doe]

Yeah, funny how that works huh? They all just happened to realize that they were wrong the first time around. And how about those civil settlements that followed?

Don't school me on the system, it is my world.

Don't take this personally.

I work with cops, and I've covered civil and criminal cases.

I also have some understanding how interrogations work. Lawyers and police officers aren't unaffected by politics anymore than the rest of us. And if there's a person who is a celebrity involved in a high-profile case, they're going to look at that person. It's called getting the big fish, and in this case, Ray Lewis was the big fish.

Second, if this is your world, then you know that the civil and criminal systems are different animals.

Of course, the families of the two victims (Jacinth Baker and Richard Lollar) can sue Ray Lewis in civil court. They merely have to argue that Ray Lewis was someway involved in a crime that resulted in the death of their loved ones. And since he has money, the victims' families are going to go after Ray Lewis. That doesn't mean that he committed the crimes. All it means is that he attempted to shield the true perpetrators from justice.

The burden of proof is different in a criminal trial compared to a civil trial.

A criminal trial tries to determine if you were a participant in a crime; the civil trial tries to determine if you are in any way a responsible party whether you committed the crime or not.

 

[Bleu Star]

Don't take this personally.

I work with cops, and I've covered civil and criminal cases.

I also have some understanding how interrogations work. Lawyers and police officers aren't unaffected by politics anymore than the rest of us. And if there's a person who is a celebrity involved in a high-profile case, they're going to look at that person. It's called getting the big fish, and in this case, Ray Lewis was the big fish.

Second, if this is your world, then you know that the civil and criminal systems are different animals.

Of course, the families of the two victims (Jacinth Baker and Richard Lollar) can sue Ray Lewis in civil court. They merely have to argue that Ray Lewis was someway involved in a crime that resulted in the death of their loved ones. And since he has money, the victims' families are going to go after Ray Lewis. That doesn't mean that he committed the crimes. All it means is that he attempted to shield the true perpetrators from justice.

The burden of proof is different in a criminal trial compared to a civil trial.

A criminal trial tries to determine if you were a participant in a crime; the civil trial tries to determine if you are in any way a responsible party whether you committed the crime or not.

Watch CourtTV much?

j/k man!

 

[tyke1doe]

Watch CourtTV much?

j/k man!

I've seen court live and in person. I've covered my fair share of trials.

Also, you have sloppy police investigative work just as you have sloppy journalism.

 

[bbgun]

My mailman said that TO will never play in the new stadium. Fingers crossed.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

This would have more credence if it had happened at a beauty shop.
Women there have waaaay more knowledge of football thatn at dentists' offices, where the topic of talk is how much insurance will not pay.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

when I broke into Ray Lewis' house, I overheard him saying he wanted to steal Jerry's money

 

[Bleu Star]

I've seen court live and in person. I've covered my fair share of trials.

Also, you have sloppy police investigative work just as you have sloppy journalism.

You hurt my heart to the core.

 

[Wrangler87]

It's my world too...


And you are reaching, big time.

I don't see how you can even exist in that world and be as naive as you appear to be.