Reason to believe in Kyle Kosier (sarcasm)

[Charles]

Is there any corner that you would trade him for straight up? Consider age and what they are asked to do in their given defense. For most people, I doubt there is more than 1-2 guys that they would take as a corner in our defense.

If it were my decision, I'd only trade Newman for a proven elite veteran with the hopes that my trade partner buys into Newman's potential.

I'd take Champ Bailey or Chris McAlister

 

[InmanRoshi]

Thats cool, we can agree to disagree.

IMHO Newman hasn't been a game changer ala Roy Williams. He hasn't had a signature game, thats a shame considering he was also supposed to be a punt return phenom.

Cover corners are typically underappreciated by fans who need highlight films to notice a player (but not by general managers, which is why they are among the highest paid players in the league). Which is why you see the position ridiculously under-represented among Top 50 player lists.

But without the cover CB's allowing other "game changers" who get to freelance and roam to make plays typically disappear.

Which is why Roy Williams turned in Tony Dixon numbers when he had to play Cover 2 in 2004.

 

[Charles]

I see you are going with option A) Dan Pompei is a Cowboys Homer.

Be sure to shoot him an e-mail and let him know he needs to stop being so biased towards our players.

No he's not a homer. He's just doing his job.........compile information on a piece of paper and sell it to willing fans.......

And give me a break with Parcells. How many guys has he praised up and down on this team a week before he cut them?

How many of those guys he's praised then subsequently cut have at one time ever been considered the best player on their respective units.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

IMHO Newman hasn't been a game changer ala Roy Williams. He hasn't had a signature game, thats a shame considering he was also supposed to be a punt return phenom.

He did have a three int game as a rookie...that would probably qualify as a signature game.

Parcells has been reluctant to use him as punt returner because we can't replace him as corner.

 

[InmanRoshi]

When people are still list Chris McAllister as an elite CB, it becomes obvious they pretty much don't know what in the world they are talking about. Its well known by people that closely follow the NFL that he mailed it in since he got his big contract two years ago. Ask any Raven fan. He was vastly inferior to Samari Rolle last year.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

I agree Inman....said as much early on in the corner discussion. McAlister isn't half the corner he once was.

 

[Charles]

Cover corners are typically underappreciated by fans who need highlight films to notice a player (but not by general managers, which is why they are among the highest paid players in the league). Which is why you see the position ridiculously under-represented among Top 50 player lists.

That is great stuff, hopefully Anthony Henry can teach Newman a thing or two about how to play like the best player on the defense.

But without the cover CB's allowing other "game changers" who get to freelance and roam to make plays typically disappear.

Roy Williams made the Pro Bowl regardless of Newman's play, but ironically Newman's ability that make players like Roy William game changers doesn't get noticed until we crunch stats.

Which is why Roy Williams turned in Tony Dixon numbers when he had to play Cover 2 in 2004.

That is why NFL players don't need numbers to know that Roy Williams is a Pro Bowler and a talent in any system.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

Some interesting stats on Newman and McAlister:

Tackles (2003,2004, 2005)
Newman: 76, 68, 59
McAlister: 43, 42, 48

Passes Defensed:
Newman: 17, 11, 14
McAlister: 11, 8, 12

Interceptions:
Newman: 4, 4, 3
McAlister: 3, 1, 1

McAlister does have 2 TD's over that time period to none for Newman. Newman has 2 sacks to none for McAlister.

In general, Newman's numbers are better at every stat.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

Charles, which is it?

I am pretty sure you argued earlier about some of the other premier corners that their numbers weren't as good because no one threw at them.

Now that we see that Henry made plays because teams threw at him but Newman gets no credit. Make up your mind.

Charles, if you aren't smart enough to realize that Williams' big plays are directly related to his ability to play close to the line, then you aren't smart enough to understand much of what has been said in this thread.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Some interesting stats on Newman and McAlister:

Tackles (2003,2004, 2005)
Newman: 76, 68, 59
McAlister: 43, 42, 48

Passes Defensed:
Newman: 17, 11, 14
McAlister: 11, 8, 12

Interceptions:
Newman: 4, 4, 3
McAlister: 3, 1, 1

McAlister does have 2 TD's over that time period to none for Newman. Newman has 2 sacks to none for McAlister.

In general, Newman's numbers are better at every stat.

But I hear Chris McAllister's name thrown out more ... therefore, he has to be better. Annecdotal evidence and word of mouth ... its infallible.

 

[wileedog]

No he's not a homer. He's just doing his job.........compile information on a piece of paper and sell it to willing fans.......

At least he bothered to compile information on a piece of paper. You seem to be going on a lot less.

A neutral observer is saying the same thing that a lot of folks here are - T-New was arguably the best pure coverage corner in the league. Coupled with undeniable stats there is now evidence that perhaps this was so.

In your defense, you have presented the "lol at the homers" argument, a slightly more biting yet no more clever argument than "because I said so."

How many of those guys he's praised then subsequently cut have at one time ever been considered the best player on their respective units.

Again, you miss the point. Parcells rarely talks straight about his players to the media. I would venture to guess that 99% of what he tells the media about a player is what he thinks that player needs to hear - not an accurate assessment of his evaluation.

Saying "Parcells didn't say Newman was a great cover corner" is not an argument. I don't remember Parcells ever pointing out that the sky is blue either, and yet I bet even you would probably concur that on a sunny day, it usually is.

 

[Charles]

When people are still list Chris McAllister as an elite CB, it becomes obvious they pretty much don't know what in the world they are talking about. Its well known by people that closely follow the NFL that he mailed it in since he got his big contract two years ago. Ask any Raven fan. He was vastly inferior to Samari Rolle last year.

Yep, I don't know what I am talking about.

McAlister got his big contract 2 years ago and thanked the Ravens organization with a another ProBowl year in 2004.

Last year he was injured. Infact the entire Ravens secondary was decimated.

Is it also well known by people who follow the NFL that Newman was the best cover corner in the league in 2005

 

[dwmyers]

who is feeding all of you with this BS about Newman being ... "the best cover man in football" in 2005.

Dr Z, Paul Zimmerman, said so after his tape analysis of players in 2005. He rated Newman as the best cover corner in football last year.

David.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

Dr Z, Paul Zimmerman, said so after his tape analysis of players in 2005. He rated Newman as the best cover corner in football last year.

Another known Cowboys homer.

 

[Charles]

Some interesting stats on Newman and McAlister:

Tackles (2003,2004, 2005)
Newman: 76, 68, 59
McAlister: 43, 42, 48

Passes Defensed:
Newman: 17, 11, 14
McAlister: 11, 8, 12

Interceptions:
Newman: 4, 4, 3
McAlister: 3, 1, 1

McAlister does have 2 TD's over that time period to none for Newman. Newman has 2 sacks to none for McAlister.

In general, Newman's numbers are better at every stat.

Thanks for proving my point Stat pusher

Peyton Manning is statically better than any QB in the league. so what Manning a great passer, but Brady is a better QB.


McAlister made the ProBowl in 2004 with lesser stats than Newman, why didn't he get a nod, coincidentally 2004 has been Newman's worst year

 

[dwmyers]

I don't think anyone has said that Newman is the best corner. Closest is ravidbuey saying he was the best cover corner last year.

The FIRST person I saw make that claim was a certain old dog liberal and Jets homer by the name of Paul Zimmerman.

And it wasn't by crunching numbers, he did it with tape analysis. You know, taping games and watching people play.

Not that he was ever in the NFL, but an ex semi pro player and lineman for Columbia I think isn't a bad place to begin.

David.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

Charles....no reply to the fact that Newman's numbers have been better every year that he has been in the league compared to McAlister.

I really wish Adam would jump in at some point with the numbers of how often each was thrown at and how many were completed against them.

Since you have now replied...I'll edit.

Numbers are just one part of the argument. What is your argument? Because McAlister went to the Pro Bowl? Larry Allen has went to how many Pro Bowls that he didn't deserve? Hell, he went in the 10-6 year that he kept falling down and walking off the field. McAlister used to be one of the best. Now he has dropped quite a bit.

You are making a lot of excuses for McAlister's failure. Injuries. Defense was decimated. Blah, blah, blah...but you don't want to consider that in Newman's "worst" statistical year Dallas had no pass rush, used about 4 corners on the other side, and had no FS.

Talk about using "homer" excuses for the guy you like.

 

[Vintage]

On an unrelated note: Newman turns 28 this year.

How many more years do you think he has in him?

 

[Future]

Until midway through last season, I and any sane Dallas fan would have traded Newman for Hall without thinking twice. Now, Newman has improved quit a bit, and is an elite cover corner, but in no way is he a far better player than Hall. Both are greats corners.

i beg to differ...i for one was never particularly a deangelo hall fan

 

[superpunk]

I think most fans, when forming an opinion - go on what they see first, if possible.

Most of us fans "saw" that Newman played pretty darn well last year.

So then - we look for outsider info - stats, opinions - to figure out if we're right in what we saw.

We find in fact that several respected journalists rated him extremely high.

What you all should know is, that when talking with Charles and HH, if these stats/opinions contradict THEIR opinion - they were either

a. Compiled wrong
b. misleading
c. compiled by an idiot
d. only viewed as relevant by us because they say something good about the Cowboys.

When in fact, we already formed our own opinion based on, you know, watching the games. We just wanted to find out whether or not our opinions were garbage or not.

They're not. And noone would be able to find any disparaging article about Newman last year. He was great, end of story.