Reason to believe in Kyle Kosier (sarcasm)

[The30YardSlant]

Thats funny

Already been addressed, but apparently it escaped you. I am not proclaiming him great, Im making a prediction that at some point he will be a great safety. Maybe next year, maybe 5 years from now. Right now, he is a nothing, a no name rookie.

 

[Alexander]

The same media that hypes the crap out of Larry Allen every year which gets him sent to the Pro Bowl on mediocre performance?

Yeah, there's a good idea. Judge players by their media exposure. In fact every player should be paid based on how many times John Madden says his name....

Newman had a terrific season this year. He's young, has the pedigree, and will only get better as the pass rush improves and if Henry stays healthy.

Yes, declaring him a "great" CB is probably premature. But I hardly put it at the level of Extremeskin homerism to expect that he can start to fulfill that ranking in the coming years.

This is a completely reasonable assessment. But you do have people here who would state he is the among the top three corners in the league with a straight face.

There are people at Extremeskins who feel that Shawn Springs is the same way and he too gets cheated out of his just recognition. And he actually has had some consistency.

 

[DLCassidy]

Are we really going to get into a debate about who the better guard is, LA or Kyle Kosier? The greatest guard to ever live vs a guy the Detroit Lions didnt want.

I'm going to tread carefully here. Larry Allen IMO is one of the top 5 OL players of all time, let's get that out of the way first. But so is John Hannah, and I don't want him starting this year for us either. LA IMO is an average to above average guard at this stage of his career. It's like when Ruben Brown was in Buffalo. People filled his name in on the Pro Bowl ballot at the beginning of the year based on rep, never mind that the last 3 years or so he went he didn't deserve it. I'm not comparing the players you understand, just the situation.

Kosier? 8 teams were bidding to sign him. Our personnel guys think he's going to allow us to be more flexible in our running game. I think he has a great shot to be average to above average which is what the 2005-2006 LA is, and at less than half the cap figure. And don't use the Lions braintrust decisions to bolster your arguments- it just makes them look even dumber.

 

[The30YardSlant]

Well maybe you can explain it to me HH31. Tell me why it is so hard to find man to man corners but zone corners are a dime a dozen? The Two Deep Zone is a system that helps protect the corners. Our pass defense was better in Newman's first year even with Mario Edwards on the other corner because Edwards could play a little in the zone and we had Williams and Woodson in the secondary. 2004 we changed to more man coverage and Woodson was hurt all year, as well as having no corner on the other side. Last year, we played more man than ever before in the secondary, especially with Newman now having a quality corner on the other side in Henry.

Many teams have went to the Tampa Bay cover two because it is easier to find corners to play the scheme.

Great zone corners are a dime a dozen?

Okay then, name me 10 great zone corners. I'll be waiting. I'll even give you Barber, as he is a great zone corner, however he is so much more than that.

 

[Alexander]

And don't use the Lions braintrust decisions to bolster your arguments- it just makes them look even dumber.

:laugh1:

 

[superpunk]

And just so we're all clear on this.

Fla=Florida

These crazy kids with their slang and their skateboards.....

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

Newman doesn't get hyped because the Cowboys have not had a great team while he has been on the roster...so he doesn't get the hype. Second, he is not a self promoter in the mold of Champ Bailey and DeAngelo Hall.

Who got hurt the most by the rules that changed the way CB's could play? Cover corners like McAlister and Bailey that muscled their guys and beat them up. Why does it seem like Newman's become better now that they are playing by these new rules? Maybe, just maybe, it is because he relies least on being physical than he does with sticking on the guy.

The one weakness that Newman had was on double moves...but last year he stopped trying to jump every route and there were very few big passes completed on him.

 

[Charles]

Now this part, I generally agree with. I'll let Terence string together some consecutive seasons like he had last year before I place him alongside the best in the game. I have read people around here calling him "the best" and that is indeed very Extremeskins.

Yep, because some stat pushers at CNNSI decide Newman was an ALL Pro.

I like Newman, he's improved every single season. He had a bad stretch in 2004 for a couple of games, but his confidence bounced back in 2005.

I saw a confident Newman in 2005, DeAngelo has had confidence and a swagger since his 1st game.

Newman is defintaley heading in the right direction at a very good speed, I think his work ethic will make him a better player than Hall in the long run.

Is laughable when Dallas fans say Newman was the best shut down corner in the NFL and then claim the media only hype Hall and others.

When was the last time any NFL player was the best at something in a regular season and only got noticed by his fans and 1 major sports network (CNNSI)?

Reeks of homerism.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

Where did I say "great" zone corners are a dime a dozen? I said zone corners are a dime a dozen. When you talk about great cover corners, very few of them are going to be playing in a cover two defense. The fact that Barber makes the talk of great corners is a credit to him. But that fact is that Newman plays in a system where his mistakes get exposed because they tend to go for huge gains because no one has his back.

Barber plays in a system that usually does not give up big plays down the sidelines or deep. The weakness is in the middle of the field, which is where teams normally attack. Another reason that Barber doesn't get a lot of balls thrown to him.

I personally think that Newman could do a better job in Tampa's defense than Barber could do in Dallas' defense.

 

[wileedog]

This is a completely reasonable assessment. But you do have people here who would state he is the among the top three corners in the league with a straight face.

I think he will be in a year or two. I say that with a completely straight face. And what's important is not what he has done in the past but what he is hopefully going to give us going forward.

Am I biased? Perhaps. I see Newman play a heck of a lot more than I see most corners play. But I think this past season is going to give him a lot of confidence, and there is no questioning his athletic ability.

There are people at Extremeskins who feel that Shawn Springs is the same way and he too gets cheated out of his just recognition. And he actually has had some consistency.

I'd rather have Newman than Springs, but some of them may have a point too. Springs got top money when he hit the FA market, and it wasnt only because it was Danny-Boy writing the check.

 

[InmanRoshi]

He made the Pro Bowl alternate as a rookie. Despite his supposed "off year" in 2004, Joyner's book proved he still performed like a Top 10 CB. Last year he was unbelievable. He shut down the best WR in the league to the point where he spontaneously combusted. I can't wait for my copy of Joyner's book to come in the mail next month to see how superior he actually was to the field. You can diminish stats all you want, but it holds a hell of a lot more water than "Chris McAllister is good because I've heard it repeated so many times it has to be true."

Newman doesn't need to prove anything. He's already there.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

As for the best in the game....I am not saying that Newman is the best in the game. It's really hard to say at this point who is the best because of the rule changes. No one guy shuts down the field completely like Deion did. But Newman's name has to get mentioned when you are talking about the best.

For a shut down corner, Champ Bailey gets thrown at more and gets beat more than any of the big name cover guys. He also does make some great plays.

Comparing guys who are locked up all the time one on one with guys playing zone is apples and oranges. I don't know how to explain it any better.

The duties that Barber has compared to Newman and Hall and McAlister are so different. Barber is the best zone corner in the NFL. Don't know if any could argue that. Vasher played very in that system last year too.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

Inman, I am sure I have seen Adam post numbers on the corners and Newman's numbers were at the top. Lowest percentage of passes completed against him, fewest passes thrown his way, lowest percentage of TD passes against.

Newman played last year certainly like a top 2-3 corner in the NFC and certainly within the top 5. And corner is a position where it is "what have you done for me lately"?

Sam Madison and Patrick Surtain were both considered great cover corners...but their play has slipped a lot. Because they were better for longer than Newman was, does that mean they are better now?

 

[Charles]

This is a completely reasonable assessment. But you do have people here who would state he is the among the top three corners in the league with a straight face.

There are people at Extremeskins who feel that Shawn Springs is the same way and he too gets cheated out of his just recognition. And he actually has had some consistency.

The Shawn Springs example is perfect.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Barber, or any CB who extensively plays in Cover-2, doesn't have to worry about double moves. Anything outside of the shallow flat isn't their problem.

Without Newman, Roy Williams is just another guy ... just like he was just another guy in 2004 when we had Lance Frazier at CB and Roy had to sit back in Deep Cover 2 and compiled pedestrian numbers.

 

[Alexander]

Inman, I am sure I have seen Adam post numbers on the corners and Newman's numbers were at the top. Lowest percentage of passes completed against him, fewest passes thrown his way, lowest percentage of TD passes against.

Newman played last year certainly like a top 2-3 corner in the NFC and certainly within the top 5. And corner is a position where it is "what have you done for me lately"?

He certainly did play like that last year. But if he regresses this year like he did from 2003 to 2004, is he still a top cornerback? Consistency, not statistics, are going to be what people judge him by. And I am certain our coaching staff feels exactly this same way. If Newman repeats 2005 and doesn't make the post season honor roll, then yes, something is wrong.

Sam Madison and Patrick Surtain were both considered great cover corners...but their play has slipped a lot. Because they were better for longer than Newman was, does that mean they are better now?

Bad example.

 

[Alexander]

Without Newman, Roy Williams is just another guy

Now this is an interesting angle.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

Barber, or any CB who extensively plays in Cover-2, doesn't have to worry about double moves because anything outside of the short flat isn't their problem. Its the safeties problem.

Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner.

Cover two corners have completely different responsibilities.

 

[InmanRoshi]

If the stats show that you're consistent, then you are consistent.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

He says that because if Newman wasn't so good at man coverage, Roy Williams would be playing a lot more deep coverage instead of playing up at the line where he is a huge factor.

Do you really not get that?