Recent downturn in OLine performance should be our biggest concern

[PAPPYDOG]

Im really surprised to see Daks 2 biggest supporters blaming it on the QB. insert sarcasm emoji here. Dak has a role in it for sure its probably not as bad as you 2 tend to make it. Probably not as little as some make it. Truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

I call it like I see it.....Dak Stinks and anyone wanting him to get a top deal contract is either blind or being Paid by Dak's social media PR dept......I wish Dak was as talented at playing QB as he is playing the media........Next please!

 

[Stash]

I call it like I see it.....Dak Stinks and anyone wanting him to get a top deal contract is either blind or being Paid by Dak's social media PR dept......I wish Dak was as talented at playing QB as he is playing the media........Next please!

Time for a checkup!

 

[Roadtrip635]

What many don't understand is that some of the pressure and sacks where due to the horrid blocking of our young TE's. Garrett's horrid offense depends on lots of 2 and 3 TE sets. With Witten and Swain injured, there went our best two blocking TE's. So in steps a rookie and a practice squad TE and Rico. Only takes ONE breakdown on the line to give up pressure or a sack.

Then there was the run blocking. And although a little better than the pass blocking, still not close to what it was prior.

Smith also missed a few games as did Martin last year. Martin playing several games hurt.

The Oline clearly the #1 culprit in the downward spiral of the offense.

#2 I would say was the receiver by committee nonsense/lack of familiarity and discomfort of Dak

#3 predictable nature of the scheme and inability to adjust.

When you have an entire position group decimated like the TE, you HAVE to adjust your scheme.

I'm glad that someone else has noted our inexperienced TEs was also a piece of our blocking struggles last season. Losing Witten and Hanna was definitely a contributing factor to our blocking struggles. As you said, TEs are integral in this offense not just as pass catchers, but as blockers and having 4 inexperienced replacements step in was a factor.

Another factor I would add to your list was the change in technique brought in by Alexander. There was little continuity along our OL/TE with the injuries along the OL, new faces at TE and WR, change in coaching, etc.

 

[charron]

People act like this OL is bad. So they were not the best unit in all of football, but they were far from bad and way above average. There was not 1 single team that feared our deep passing game and we still produced the leading rusher despite a loaded box on most plays. Yes we need a competent backup for tyron but when he plays he is still one of the best tackles in the game and certainly the best on this roster.

 

[Roadtrip635]

first we went from being an all time best OL in 2016 to now an average OL. so we are spoiled. if we need an all time OL to succeed, one it will cost money, second, then we should figure out why we can't do with an average or top 10 OL since all these other teams seem to be doing it.....now some of the decline is due to injuries. although some of the replacements albeit limited in some areas, . also of the 56 sacks, more than 20 can be attributed to the QB play. you can't dismiss that. in fact about 1o of those was QB not throwing the ball away and running out of bounce behind LOS. it all goes hand in hand.

Last season it was about the lack of continuity, injuries and new lineman, 4 inexperienced TE's and change in technique brought by the new OL coach. All that affects communication along the line, how to handle stunts and blitzes, when to pass off a block, when to chip, when to release a block, etc. The one thing that greatly benefits the line is familiarity with each other to function as a group. We had new guys on the inside, (LG/C) new guys blocking on the outside (TEs) then we messed with the solid vets we did have by changing their technique that they weren't wholly comfortable with. That many changes get you what we got last year, inconsistency. I'm not absolving Dak from some of those sacks, but a team doesn't suddenly give up that many without there being deeper issues.

 

[CowboyRoy]

I'm glad that someone else has noted our inexperienced TEs was also a piece of our blocking struggles last season. Losing Witten and Hanna was definitely a contributing factor to our blocking struggles. As you said, TEs are integral in this offense not just as pass catchers, but as blockers and having 4 inexperienced replacements step in was a factor.

Another factor I would add to your list was the change in technique brought in by Alexander. There was little continuity along our OL/TE with the injuries along the OL, new faces at TE and WR, change in coaching, etc.

Yep...…….It was the perfect storm for an Oline breakdown.

 

[PAPPYDOG]

People act like this OL is bad. So they were not the best unit in all of football, but they were far from bad and way above average. There was not 1 single team that feared our deep passing game and we still produced the leading rusher despite a loaded box on most plays. Yes we need a competent backup for tyron but when he plays he is still one of the best tackles in the game and certainly the best on this roster.

Blame everyone and everybody except the guy that throws the ball........

Cowboyroy you can take it from here......lol....[/QUOTE]

 

[the_h0wey]

Let’s try a thread that isn’t Dak-focused.

By every reasonable statistic, this offensive line has been in decline since 2017. We’ve blamed Dak for holding the ball too long, Linehan for his lack of creativity, dearth of talent at WR, but the stats show that this comes back to the offensive line.

From 2014 to 2016 this was a dominant force up front. Even in 2015, the year ruined by Romo’s two brutal collarbone injuries, the team still ran for 4.63 yards per carry. That was before Zeke.

In 2016, Bryant went down injured and Dak and Zeke still killed it. They went 13-3.

2017 was OK until Tyron Smith got hurt and the dreaded Chaz Green experiment. And that’s when things have started to come undone.

There were 56 sacks given up in 2018, and even if you give a lot of them to Dak (unfair, but whatever), you can’t get past the poor play on the line.

1. Conner Williams was the biggest culprit. Undersized, he gave up the most sacks even though he didn’t play 16 games. He shouldn’t have been thrown into the fire so soon.

2. Collins gets a free pass here but his play was also really poor. I have to imagine that this is his last year here.

3. Obviously we were missing Fredbeard. Looney is the only starter who didn’t give up any sacks (Martin only gave up 2), but we miss Fredbeard’s adjustments and athleticism.

4. Tyron Smith was playing hurt again. He’s not getting any younger.

So to me, the team’s success in 2019 comes down to the offensive line. When they play well, this team wins a lot of games. When they don’t... well, you know.

And the Dallas Cowboys have more salary cap money invested in OL then any other team in the league.

In 2019..

- Frederick is back, but is he his old self
- Martin is a stud, no worry there.
- Collins is a worry, and he’s likely gone after this year. Can he be replaced a year early
- Will T.Smith stay injury free?
- Will Conner Williams’ bulk make him a better player?
- How willing Conner McGovern contribute?

Too many questions... this is my biggest worry going into training camp.

I'm not really concerned. I think with Frederick back we will be vastly improved. This is arguably the deepest position on the team IMO

 

[Bleu Star]

Let’s try a thread that isn’t Dak-focused.

By every reasonable statistic, this offensive line has been in decline since 2017. We’ve blamed Dak for holding the ball too long, Linehan for his lack of creativity, dearth of talent at WR, but the stats show that this comes back to the offensive line.

From 2014 to 2016 this was a dominant force up front. Even in 2015, the year ruined by Romo’s two brutal collarbone injuries, the team still ran for 4.63 yards per carry. That was before Zeke.

In 2016, Bryant went down injured and Dak and Zeke still killed it. They went 13-3.

2017 was OK until Tyron Smith got hurt and the dreaded Chaz Green experiment. And that’s when things have started to come undone.

There were 56 sacks given up in 2018, and even if you give a lot of them to Dak (unfair, but whatever), you can’t get past the poor play on the line.

1. Conner Williams was the biggest culprit. Undersized, he gave up the most sacks even though he didn’t play 16 games. He shouldn’t have been thrown into the fire so soon.

2. Collins gets a free pass here but his play was also really poor. I have to imagine that this is his last year here.

3. Obviously we were missing Fredbeard. Looney is the only starter who didn’t give up any sacks (Martin only gave up 2), but we miss Fredbeard’s adjustments and athleticism.

4. Tyron Smith was playing hurt again. He’s not getting any younger.

So to me, the team’s success in 2019 comes down to the offensive line. When they play well, this team wins a lot of games. When they don’t... well, you know.

And the Dallas Cowboys have more salary cap money invested in OL then any other team in the league.

In 2019..

- Frederick is back, but is he his old self
- Martin is a stud, no worry there.
- Collins is a worry, and he’s likely gone after this year. Can he be replaced a year early
- Will T.Smith stay injury free?
- Will Conner Williams’ bulk make him a better player?
- How willing Conner McGovern contribute?

Too many questions... this is my biggest worry going into training camp.

We need Chaz Green back. Stat.

 

[nightrain]

The OL was a strength of the team last year. The depth of the unit was solid, covering for the loss of Perennial Pro Bowl Center, the usual couple of games missed by Smith and producing the NFL rushing champ.

 

[TheSkaven]

The OL was a strength of the team last year. The depth of the unit was solid, covering for the loss of Perennial Pro Bowl Center, the usual couple of games missed by Smith and producing the NFL rushing champ.

Why would you say that? They gave up 56 sacks. To put that in context, they gave up 25 in 2016, and 32 in 2017.

 

[nightrain]

Why would you say that? They gave up 56 sacks. To put that in context, they gave up 25 in 2016, and 32 in 2017.

You can't find any other stats besides sacks? Were all the sacks on the OL? How many playoff games did the Cowboys win in 2016 and 2017?

 

[buybuydandavis]

In 2019..

- Frederick is back, but is he his old self
- Martin is a stud, no worry there.
- Collins is a worry, and he’s likely gone after this year. Can he be replaced a year early
- Will T.Smith stay injury free?
- Will Conner Williams’ bulk make him a better player?
- How willing Conner McGovern contribute?

I wish I could find the full quote, but one of the biggest bits of news from the offseason was Tyron saying that he was basically healthy for the first time in a long time, and will be coming back "stronger and faster".

McGovern sounds like a plug and play LG. I hope the pec injury doesn't keep him out of camp.

Williams played head to head against Aaron Donald against the Rams. Donald had 2 tackles and 0 QB hits. He had already improved a lot by the end of the season, and putting muscle on in the offseason is sure to help. Of course it will.

The oline is looking awesome. Crazy deep if we keep Collins.

 

[beware_d-ware]

The OL just looked lost on several plays when Alexander was switching things up, and later on in the season, teams were able to beat our OL by blitzing. Looney and Dak were not calling the protections as well as Frederick did.

If Fred's back, then we just took our center position from average to All-Pro. Tyron and Martin are locked and loaded. And I think that people get confused with La'El: he's not a great player and hasn't lived up to his pre-draft billing, but that doesn't mean he's a bad player. He's an average starting RT, or to phrase it a little differently, he's still a top 20 player at his position. People act like Connor Williams or McGovern are just going to push him right out of the way, and I just don't see that at all.

The interesting fight for me is going to be at LG. I think people are assuming C-Will's got this, but I'm not so sure. What we're hearing right now is the same "best shape of my life" offseason fluff that happens every year. Personally, I'll believe it when I see it on the field.

Williams improved over the course of the year but still struggled with power, while McGovern just didn't struggle with power at all at Penn State. He's nowhere near the technician Williams is, but Williams didn't lose on technique last year, he lost when dudes ran him straight over. McGovern looks pro ready as a prospect to me, and I think he's good enough to compete with Williams right now.

But whatever happens, we're loaded. Williams, McGovern, Looney, and Fleming could all probably start for a couple teams, and they are basically our reserves.

 

[Hennessy_King]

Colombo is a good point - the O-Line seemed to improve last year when Alexander was released and Colombo took over.

They were just as bad. I think dak was actually sacked 33 times in 9 weeks after alexander got blown out.

 

[Hennessy_King]

People act like this OL is bad. So they were not the best unit in all of football, but they were far from bad and way above average. There was not 1 single team that feared our deep passing game and we still produced the leading rusher despite a loaded box on most plays. Yes we need a competent backup for tyron but when he plays he is still one of the best tackles in the game and certainly the best on this roster.

you're very delusional. and there isn't a statistic in the world that would back up your blasphemous claim

 

[Stash]

People act like this OL is bad. So they were not the best unit in all of football, but they were far from bad and way above average. There was not 1 single team that feared our deep passing game and we still produced the leading rusher despite a loaded box on most plays. Yes we need a competent backup for tyron but when he plays he is still one of the best tackles in the game and certainly the best on this roster.

It's justified criticms of disappointing return on investment. The Cowboys have invested too much for this line to be average. They're paying for "the best".

 

[TheSkaven]

You can't find any other stats besides sacks? Were all the sacks on the OL? How many playoff games did the Cowboys win in 2016 and 2017?

Yes, most of them were on the OL, specifically Connor Williams and La'el Collins. If you don't believe me, Pro Football Focus has the breakdown, and Bob Sturm did his own in the Athletic.

 

[nightrain]

Yes, most of them were on the OL, specifically Connor Williams and La'el Collins. If you don't believe me, Pro Football Focus has the breakdown, and Bob Sturm did his own in the Athletic.

The Cowboys won the division and their first playoff game in 5 years. Williams was a rookie playing next to a reserve player for one of the best C in the league. IMO, Collins is out of position at RT. They produced the league leader in rushing. The OL is a good unit and one that I don't spend much time worrying about.

 

[LarryCanadian]

Didn't we change Oline coaches after the first 1/3rd of the season? I haven't seen that mentioned much. The oline coach Alexander, at start of season, had some pretty weird ideas about hand placement and blocking scheme and the players apparently really didn't like it - and their play SHOWED it. Columbo came in and after a couple of games the oline was at least tougher.

That can be a major factor, and we won a lot more games down the stretch after that. Connor Williams will be heavier, stronger, and more experienced. Freebeard will be back, and hopefully the explosiveness, which is apparently the last thing to return, will be there - might take a few games. That means our depth will be better with Looney a backup. Our 3rd round draft pick will hopefully have time to learn and strengthen to be a top prospective back-up also. My main concern remains injury to Tyron, whose downfall is greatly exaggerated (although back and elbow will be constant worries), and perhaps Collins and Williams being in the wrong spots? Not convinced RT is right spot for Collins. Williams is still a development. Suafilo is a decent backup and Flemming surprised me by not being leaky - he never looked great last 2 pre-seasons but was solid fill-in during regular season IMHO. Martin's knee was pretty beat up all year - hopefully he is 100% healthy.

And while Dak wasn't focus of this thread, towards end of season he was losing the jittery legs and slow progression reads he had since the Atlanta fiasco that almost killed him...
If the reports of this offseason are true and Dak is making that 4th year leap, and reading things faster and recovered from being beat up in 2017.....if he gets rid of ball quicker = less sacks and perception of oline improves.