Recent downturn in OLine performance should be our biggest concern

[big dog cowboy]

Recent downturn in OLine performance should be our biggest concern

More than coaching?

The OL will be fine.

 

[America's Cowboy]

I disagree with the premise. Zeke was the #1 rusher in 2018. If the OL was so bad that would not have happened. I think what hurt the team was a combination of DAK, WRs, Coaching, and TEs. That combination stymied the team's red zone production.

@Silly , quit sounding so silly.

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

 

[JoeKing]

Let’s try a thread that isn’t Dak-focused.

By every reasonable statistic, this offensive line has been in decline since 2017. We’ve blamed Dak for holding the ball too long, Linehan for his lack of creativity, dearth of talent at WR, but the stats show that this comes back to the offensive line.

From 2014 to 2016 this was a dominant force up front. Even in 2015, the year ruined by Romo’s two brutal collarbone injuries, the team still ran for 4.63 yards per carry. That was before Zeke.

In 2016, Bryant went down injured and Dak and Zeke still killed it. They went 13-3.

2017 was OK until Tyron Smith got hurt and the dreaded Chaz Green experiment. And that’s when things have started to come undone.

There were 56 sacks given up in 2018, and even if you give a lot of them to Dak (unfair, but whatever), you can’t get past the poor play on the line.

1. Conner Williams was the biggest culprit. Undersized, he gave up the most sacks even though he didn’t play 16 games. He shouldn’t have been thrown into the fire so soon.

2. Collins gets a free pass here but his play was also really poor. I have to imagine that this is his last year here.

3. Obviously we were missing Fredbeard. Looney is the only starter who didn’t give up any sacks (Martin only gave up 2), but we miss Fredbeard’s adjustments and athleticism.

4. Tyron Smith was playing hurt again. He’s not getting any younger.

So to me, the team’s success in 2019 comes down to the offensive line. When they play well, this team wins a lot of games. When they don’t... well, you know.

And the Dallas Cowboys have more salary cap money invested in OL then any other team in the league.

In 2019..

- Frederick is back, but is he his old self
- Martin is a stud, no worry there.
- Collins is a worry, and he’s likely gone after this year. Can he be replaced a year early
- Will T.Smith stay injury free?
- Will Conner Williams’ bulk make him a better player?
- How willing Conner McGovern contribute?

Too many questions... this is my biggest worry going into training camp.

Travis Frederick will most likely not be 100% in 2019 but that's okay, we drafted Conner McGovern for a reason. If Travis needs a breather, McGovern is a very capable center. Martin is a stud, he's in command of that OL, thats why they call him the president. Collins is too inconsistent but the good news is he has competition this year for his job. Who knows, maybe he doesn't win that competition. Tyron Smith, try as he may defy father time, is suffering the effects of being a rock at LT for too long and is now crumbling before our very eyes. Conner Williams will be able to slide over to T. Smith's position whenever needed. He's added the required weight to get that done and it is almost all muscle.

The OL is in good shape so relax or worry about something else. Why doesn't the FO care about the saftey position?

 

[DuncanIso]

Let’s try a thread that isn’t Dak-focused.

By every reasonable statistic, this offensive line has been in decline since 2017. We’ve blamed Dak for holding the ball too long, Linehan for his lack of creativity, dearth of talent at WR, but the stats show that this comes back to the offensive line.

From 2014 to 2016 this was a dominant force up front. Even in 2015, the year ruined by Romo’s two brutal collarbone injuries, the team still ran for 4.63 yards per carry. That was before Zeke.

In 2016, Bryant went down injured and Dak and Zeke still killed it. They went 13-3.

2017 was OK until Tyron Smith got hurt and the dreaded Chaz Green experiment. And that’s when things have started to come undone.

There were 56 sacks given up in 2018, and even if you give a lot of them to Dak (unfair, but whatever), you can’t get past the poor play on the line.

1. Conner Williams was the biggest culprit. Undersized, he gave up the most sacks even though he didn’t play 16 games. He shouldn’t have been thrown into the fire so soon.

2. Collins gets a free pass here but his play was also really poor. I have to imagine that this is his last year here.

3. Obviously we were missing Fredbeard. Looney is the only starter who didn’t give up any sacks (Martin only gave up 2), but we miss Fredbeard’s adjustments and athleticism.

4. Tyron Smith was playing hurt again. He’s not getting any younger.

So to me, the team’s success in 2019 comes down to the offensive line. When they play well, this team wins a lot of games. When they don’t... well, you know.

And the Dallas Cowboys have more salary cap money invested in OL then any other team in the league.

In 2019..

- Frederick is back, but is he his old self
- Martin is a stud, no worry there.
- Collins is a worry, and he’s likely gone after this year. Can he be replaced a year early
- Will T.Smith stay injury free?
- Will Conner Williams’ bulk make him a better player?
- How willing Conner McGovern contribute?

Too many questions... this is my biggest worry going into training camp.

Zeke won the rushing title 2 times, in 3 years.

 

[Scotman]

Do you happen to have the holding callas against Tyron Smith last year? I seem to remember he got called for quite a few, some of which seemed very tickey-tack to me.

I felt like that, too.

 

[TheSkaven]

Zeke won the rushing title 2 times, in 3 years.

OK. Here’s another stat, in addition to the sacks. The OLine has 31 holding calls last year, 3rd most in the league. First and second place had 32.

Look, I’m not dogging our line. Martin is a stud. So is Smith (when healthy). I’m just telling you that there’s reason for concern. Collins has been subpar and he’s built more to be a guard than a tackle. Connor Williams may be stronger this year but he’s a question mark. Fredbeard may be his old self but we don’t know that.

Too many question marks for my liking, especially for a team build around time of possession and the running game.

 

[Plankton]

https://cowboyszone.com/threads/colombo-back-as-o-line-coach.427206/page-3#post-8973208

 

[charron]

It's justified criticms of disappointing return on investment. The Cowboys have invested too much for this line to be average. They're paying for "the best".

We pay tyron, martin and fred to be one of the best and they are.

 

[Stash]

We pay tyron, martin and fred to be one of the best and they are.

They have been in the past, but the line gave up too many sacks and struggled far too often for what's been invested. That needs to improve.

 

[xwalker]

We pay tyron, martin and fred to be one of the best and they are.

2018 sacks allowed
62 Houston Texans
56 Dallas Cowboys
53 Green Bay Packers
53 Jacksonville Jaguars
52 Oakland Raiders
52 Miami Dolphins
52 Arizona Cardinals
51 Seattle Seahawks
48 San Francisco 49ers
47 New York Giants
47 Tennessee Titans
44 Washington Commanders
42 Atlanta Falcons
41 Tampa Bay Buccaneers
41 Detroit Lions
41 Buffalo Bills
40 Philadelphia Eagles
40 Minnesota Vikings
38 Cleveland Browns
37 Cincinnati Bengals
37 New York Jets
34 Los Angeles Chargers
34 Denver Broncos
33 Los Angeles Rams
33 Chicago Bears
32 Carolina Panthers
32 Baltimore Ravens
26 Kansas City Chiefs
24 Pittsburgh Steelers
21 New England Patriots
20 New Orleans Saints
18 Indianapolis Colts

 

[CCBoy]

2018 sacks allowed
62 Houston Texans
56 Dallas Cowboys
53 Green Bay Packers
53 Jacksonville Jaguars
52 Oakland Raiders
52 Miami Dolphins
52 Arizona Cardinals
51 Seattle Seahawks
48 San Francisco 49ers
47 New York Giants
47 Tennessee Titans
44 Washington Commanders
42 Atlanta Falcons
41 Tampa Bay Buccaneers
41 Detroit Lions
41 Buffalo Bills
40 Philadelphia Eagles
40 Minnesota Vikings
38 Cleveland Browns
37 Cincinnati Bengals
37 New York Jets
34 Los Angeles Chargers
34 Denver Broncos
33 Los Angeles Rams
33 Chicago Bears
32 Carolina Panthers
32 Baltimore Ravens
26 Kansas City Chiefs
24 Pittsburgh Steelers
21 New England Patriots
20 New Orleans Saints
18 Indianapolis Colts

Agreed, the position of Dallas on this list should flip flop...

 

[Techsass]

2018 sacks allowed
62 Houston Texans
56 Dallas Cowboys
53 Green Bay Packers
53 Jacksonville Jaguars
52 Oakland Raiders
52 Miami Dolphins
52 Arizona Cardinals
51 Seattle Seahawks
48 San Francisco 49ers
47 New York Giants
47 Tennessee Titans
44 Washington Commanders
42 Atlanta Falcons
41 Tampa Bay Buccaneers
41 Detroit Lions
41 Buffalo Bills
40 Philadelphia Eagles
40 Minnesota Vikings
38 Cleveland Browns
37 Cincinnati Bengals
37 New York Jets
34 Los Angeles Chargers
34 Denver Broncos
33 Los Angeles Rams
33 Chicago Bears
32 Carolina Panthers
32 Baltimore Ravens
26 Kansas City Chiefs
24 Pittsburgh Steelers
21 New England Patriots
20 New Orleans Saints
18 Indianapolis Colts

So basically 3 sacks per game? I'm assuming the 2 playoff games are included in that stat.
Ouch

 

[xwalker]

So basically 3 sacks per game? I'm assuming the 2 playoff games are included in that stat.
Ouch

Playoffs not included which makes it 3.5 per game.

 

[charron]

2018 sacks allowed
62 Houston Texans
56 Dallas Cowboys
53 Green Bay Packers
53 Jacksonville Jaguars
52 Oakland Raiders
52 Miami Dolphins
52 Arizona Cardinals
51 Seattle Seahawks
48 San Francisco 49ers
47 New York Giants
47 Tennessee Titans
44 Washington Commanders
42 Atlanta Falcons
41 Tampa Bay Buccaneers
41 Detroit Lions
41 Buffalo Bills
40 Philadelphia Eagles
40 Minnesota Vikings
38 Cleveland Browns
37 Cincinnati Bengals
37 New York Jets
34 Los Angeles Chargers
34 Denver Broncos
33 Los Angeles Rams
33 Chicago Bears
32 Carolina Panthers
32 Baltimore Ravens
26 Kansas City Chiefs
24 Pittsburgh Steelers
21 New England Patriots
20 New Orleans Saints
18 Indianapolis Colts

and all of those are the Olines fault? of course not.

 

[charron]

They have been in the past, but the line gave up too many sacks and struggled far too often for what's been invested. That needs to improve.

The guys they pay big money too arent the ones giving up the sacks. Also qb's who have a faster release and don't run tend to have lower sack numbers.

 

[aria]

Just in the past 3 years we’ve had the best O line in the league and/or a top 5-10 O line and this is concerning? A think a lot of people were spoiled in 2016. Our O line may not be the best but it’s still top 10.

 

[ItzKelz]

I think Dak will help the OL in the passing game with improved awareness and ability to process things faster. Hopefully the play calling of Kellen will help with the running game. Our OL is a concern and should yearly be our biggest concern IMO.

 

[Stash]

The guys they pay big money too arent the ones giving up the sacks. Also qb's who have a faster release and don't run tend to have lower sack numbers.

Three guys didn't give up 56 sacks. None of the Cowboys big money linemen had one of their best years in 2018. That's simply a fact. They need to play better based on what's been invested in them.

 

[xwalker]

and all of those are the Olines fault? of course not.

No, but 56 sacks don't happen without performance issues by the OLine regardless of play calling or the QB.

The play calls definitely contributed and Dak definitely held the ball too long more often than he should have; although I think he was coached to wait for receivers to get open as opposed to Parcells probably delaying Romo becoming a starter by a year specifically because he couldn't break Romo of that habit. Parcells would stand behind Romo in practice and blow the play dead at the 3 second mark. I don't think any coach has done that with Dak.

 

[charron]

No, but 56 sacks don't happen without performance issues by the OLine regardless of play calling or the QB.

The play calls definitely contributed and Dak definitely held the ball too long more often than he should have; although I think he was coached to wait for receivers to get open as opposed to Parcells probably delaying Romo becoming a starter by a year specifically because he couldn't break Romo of that habit. Parcells would stand behind Romo in practice and blow the play dead at the 3 second mark. I don't think any coach has done that with Dak.

So out of all the sacks the Oline gave up they guys we invested heavily in are not the problem. That is my subtle point. The LG spot was our weakest link followed by the RT, but even then alot of our issues are not the fault of the OL.