Recent picture of Jaylon Smith shows no brace

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FuzzyLumpkins

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Oh please, smh.

I've exposed your blatant lies with posts, links and time/stamps.

You simply ignore the posts, repeat the claim and posture in victory.

You're like a cheaper message board version of Jersey Shore's GTL: Gym, Tan and Laundry.

Folks have caught on.

:laugh: Folks. It's the same people that always follow me around looking to prove me wrong on any point they possibly can. You're just one more to add to the squad.

Most people don't want to get involved. That is the reality.

And I showed that one day you will say it's not firing. Then the next you will say all along you have thought it was firing and improving. Then the next day you will deny it and post a Mike Fisher article to back up the claim. I dated/linked that too.

In response you picked one quote amongst several and ignored the rest while spouting your typical diatribe. It's your typical avoidance.

But hey Bob whose moniker is village idiot likes your stuff.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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Gotta put your guys on Jerry Springer.

Who cares til training camp, gosh.

I actually think it's kind of funny the lengths he goes. It's probably better he lets it out here where he does no harm as opposed to projecting that hate elsewhere.

He really doesn't like me.
 

CalPolyTechnique

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I'm saying given that the offseason program has not started he has not had his own trainers/coaches working with him. That is what is going to tell him what he can or cannot do.

He has been working out with third parties as we have seen in the videos he has posted. Thus second hand as opposed to Brit Brown and Eberfus which would be first hand.

Try and keep up.

And :laugh: you apparently don't know what second hand means. If he is getting the info from a doctor or an agent that is second hand, angry one. First hand would be Stephen watching him work out at the Star first hand.

If you are going to call people stupid and the like it helps to not make completely ignorant statements like that.

Cool theory bro.

“And you don’t know how long he is going to have to have the brace. Our guys are getting real comfortable that he can be a great contributor with a brace. But he may not have the brace. But our guys feel comfortable after working with him that he can play with the brace.” --- Stephen Jones
 
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Idgit

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They don't like me. That is basically it.

They insist that he must still need an AFO. I say it's very possible he doesn't. That is what it's ostensibly about.

Doesn't Stephen coming out and saying he may not need the brace kind of solve that whole discussion though? I guess I don't get it.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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Cool theory bro.

Unfortunately, it's crap.

All it takes is a call to/from Dr. Cooper, Jaylon himself or even his agent to give him the latest status on Jaylon's progress.

We are talking about whether or not he needs to wear an AFO play football. I am going to go out on a limb --sarcasm-- that they are going to need him at the Star working with the trainers before they can make that determination.

And that is still second hand information.

BTW, players return to the Star next week for the new season. OTA's at the end of May.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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Doesn't Stephen coming out and saying he may not need the brace kind of solve that whole discussion though? I guess I don't get it.

I agree that it should.

You've seen it before. People comb through my posts looking for errors and put a lot of effort into finding them. When they find one they act like it trumps everything and strut around. They tell me I never admit that I am wrong. Meanwhile they would rather die than admit I was ever right. Instead they resort to insults and derisive characterization.

That and what drives that is what this is really about.
 

adbutcher

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Doesn't Stephen coming out and saying he may not need the brace kind of solve that whole discussion though? I guess I don't get it.
It would/should solve it if some posters weren't willfully ignorant. I guess it cannot be helped because the state of our society is being overran by ignorance, hate, and intolerance.
 

Sydla

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Doesn't Stephen coming out and saying he may not need the brace kind of solve that whole discussion though? I guess I don't get it.

Depends on how you read Jones' comment. Sure he might not need a brace but he talked also about playing with a brace.

Which is the point. We, as fans, really don't know a whole lot about what's going with Smith. But Fuzzy apparently thinks he does based on internet photos and parsing quotes from reporters and has lectured people on the topic who don't agree with him. I think that's Poly's real point. We simply don't know what's going on. Jones' comments support that point........... he talks about the possibility of having to play with the brace or maybe not having to use it at all, which frankly isn't anything new from what we though a couple of months ago.

I mean didn't we all at least acknowledge months ago that the range of possibilities for Smith was try to play with a brace to him recovering completely to not needing a brace?
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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Depends on how you read Jones' comment. Sure he might not need a brace but he talked also about playing with a brace.

Which is the point. We, as fans, really don't know a whole lot about what's going with Smith. But Fuzzy apparently thinks he does based on internet photos and parsing quotes from reporters and has lectured people on the topic who don't agree with him. I think that's Poly's real point. We simply don't know what's going on. Jones' comments support that point........... he talks about the possibility of having to play with the brace or maybe not having to use it at all, which frankly isn't anything new from what we though a couple of months ago.

I mean didn't we all at least acknowledge months ago that the range of possibilities for Smith was try to play with a brace to him recovering completely to not needing a brace?

Again, I am not positive that he does not need an AFO. I just think it is very likely given the data we have particularly these repeated photos of him not wearing one and nary a still with it on

It used to be that I was all but certain since around new year that the nerve had been firing. That was when the George report came out and the flood of stills, videos, and cryptic tweets as well. That is what the issue used to be about and why I was called all kinds of this hate for saying it.

Then Breer and Stephen confirmed it firing in March. Do I get one shred of credit from the peanut gallery for that?

Nope. Instead the goalposts have been moved to the AFO and it's various versions of "I am going to have to wait for Dr. Fuzzy who thinks he is so smart to tell me" from the exact same people.

When it should be: "Wow, a huge hurdle has been cleared and confirmed now that he can flex his peroneal." They suck the joy right out.

You yourself have gone from "you are embarrassing yourself" and "it is obvious he is saying he needs to wear an AFO" to you now saying "we don't know" after I pointed out the schedule and what timeframes various prepositions really imply. At least you stopped pulling those specific dates out of your butt.

And it's really disingenuous to parrot this take once more after I point out that I am like Stephen Jones and wanting to see where he is at once he returns to the field.

People don't like being told sure but that doesn't mean I am wrong.
 
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Sydla

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From the beginning all I said was that back in March, based on Jones' comments, Smith was likely still using some sort of brace in some capacity. Otherwise, Jones wouldn't be talking about the possibility of having to play with the brace. If Jones was brace free in his offeason, away from Frisco workouts as you seem to believe based on your photo analysis, then Jones wouldn't be talking about the fact Smith may have to use that brace to play football.

Unless of course you are trying to suggest Jones really doesn't have an idea as to the extent of Smith's workouts, whether he needs a brace to perform some or all of his training, etc.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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From the beginning all I said was that back in March, based on Jones' comments, Smith was likely still using some sort of brace in some capacity. Otherwise, Jones wouldn't be talking about the possibility of having to play with the brace. If Jones was brace free in his offeason, away from Frisco workouts as you seem to believe based on your photo analysis, then Jones wouldn't be talking about the fact Smith may have to use that brace to play football.

Unless of course you are trying to suggest Jones really doesn't have an idea as to the extent of Smith's workouts, whether he needs a brace to perform some or all of his training, etc.

I don't know the totality of what Jones knows. I certainly do not front that I do and make conclusions off of it. That would be you although you hide it and try to put it on me by your "unless you are trying to suggest that Jones really doesn't have an idea of" blah blah blah.

Did Jones say anything about doctors or trainers? All he said was at some time in the past that he and his organization were comfortable working with him wearing an AFO if it came to that.

Nothing more and nothing less.

What's really interesting is that you insist that his considering the possibility means that he must wear one. Your problem is the 800 lbs gorilla in the room when he explicitly states that "it is not a given."

Frankly, I don't waste my time with that nonsense about what he must have known and when he should have known it. It unprovable garbage that wasters everyone's time. I will stick with what we can verifiably know. For example:

1. We know that he considers the possibility of wearing the brace. From the interview.

2. We know that he considers the possibility of not having to wear the brace. From the interview.

3. We know that he is still waiting to see how it works out. From the interview.

4. We know that the nerve is firing from various reports and the first report of that was in January from DMN's Brandon George.

5. We know that Jaylon's exit interview from football activities was in January. From the NFL schedule.

6. We know that Jaylon has been working out with third parties. We know this from the videos on social media.

7. We know that Jaylon will be returning for the offseason program on April 18. Small assumption here that he will volunteer and not pull a D Hambrick. Again from the NFL schedule.

8. We know that he has been walking around casually without a brace. We have seen several pictures over the course of months of him doing it. From social media.

9. We have also seen several workout videos and not seen the AFO.

1 through 8 are completely factual and verifiable. Number 9 gives an obvious implication. So what kinds of narrative makes it so that all of those facts work. Here is one:

The team had him wearing the AFO while he worked out with the team up until the new year. During the exit interview like all players they gave him a road map of what they would like to see him accomplish in the months of interim before he returns.

It was around that time that the nerve started to fire and he could flex his peroneal. He started training diligently to strengthen the peroneal and regain his coordination. He stopped wearing the AFO as much as possible.

That is one thing I am comfortable assuming: Jaylon is doing everything in his power to not have to wear the orthotic.

For day to day activity he didn't need it at all. For some training he did not need it like the hurdles but for the quick twitch agility drills he still needed support. They compromised on a heavy tape job.

Stephen Jones is monitoring all of this but Jaylon has not been working with Britt Brown and company since he left and when he left he was wearing the orthotic. This leaves Jones unsure of where he will stand exactly when he returns and works with the trainers he knows and trusts best. He is encouraged by the progress but is cognizant of the continuing need for support and needs to hear from his trainers and seeing for himself before making a decision. He may need an AFO. He may not need an AFO but they will have to wait and see.
 

Idgit

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Depends on how you read Jones' comment. Sure he might not need a brace but he talked also about playing with a brace.

Which is the point. We, as fans, really don't know a whole lot about what's going with Smith. But Fuzzy apparently thinks he does based on internet photos and parsing quotes from reporters and has lectured people on the topic who don't agree with him. I think that's Poly's real point. We simply don't know what's going on. Jones' comments support that point........... he talks about the possibility of having to play with the brace or maybe not having to use it at all, which frankly isn't anything new from what we though a couple of months ago.

I mean didn't we all at least acknowledge months ago that the range of possibilities for Smith was try to play with a brace to him recovering completely to not needing a brace?

Jaylon's been on a slow but steady progression since he's been drafted. He's gone from a question mark the Cowboys felt good about to a guy who was suggesting he could play at the end of last season. It's been a long road, and the information that's come out is little and confusing, but it's all been positive. We know the nerve is firing, we know he's going to play at the start of camp, we knew he's shed a few different types of braces, and we know Stephen at least thinks there's a chance he might not need a brace at all. That's a fair amount of progress so far.

As far as parsing still images or analyzing his pronation in videos goes or whatever, that stuff was all just fun speculation. I have no idea why it got ugly, and it's not just Fuzzy v. Cal Poly here. There were several other posters with more medical background involved. I agree that there was too little available to us to draw any significantly useful conclusions from. But the progress has been steady and at this point it's obvious. The range of possibilities you mention has closed from 'might not ever play again, might recover fully' to 'will play again, might not need the brace to play when he does, might recover fully.' That's a fair bit of narrowing down of the range.
 

Idgit

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I don't know the totality of what Jones knows. I certainly do not front that I do and make conclusions off of it. That would be you although you hide it and try to put it on me by your "unless you are trying to suggest that Jones really doesn't have an idea of" blah blah blah.

Did Jones say anything about doctors or trainers? All he said was at some time in the past that he and his organization were comfortable working with him wearing an AFO if it came to that.

Nothing more and nothing less.

What's really interesting is that you insist that his considering the possibility means that he must wear one. Your problem is the 800 lbs gorilla in the room when he explicitly states that "it is not a given."

Frankly, I don't waste my time with that nonsense about what he must have known and when he should have known it. It unprovable garbage that wasters everyone's time. I will stick with what we can verifiably know. For example:

1. We know that he considers the possibility of wearing the brace. From the interview.

2. We know that he considers the possibility of not having to wear the brace. From the interview.

3. We know that he is still waiting to see how it works out. From the interview.

4. We know that the nerve is firing from various reports and the first report of that was in January from DMN's Brandon George.

5. We know that Jaylon's exit interview from football activities was in January. From the NFL schedule.

6. We know that Jaylon has been working out with third parties. We know this from the videos on social media.

7. We know that Jaylon will be returning for the offseason program on April 18. Small assumption here that he will volunteer and not pull a D Hambrick. Again from the NFL schedule.

8. We know that he has been walking around casually without a brace. We have seen several pictures over the course of months of him doing it. From social media.

9. We have also seen several workout videos and not seen the AFO.

1 through 8 are completely factual and verifiable. Number 9 gives an obvious implication. So what kinds of narrative makes it so that all of those facts work. Here is one:

The team had him wearing the AFO while he worked out with the team up until the new year. During the exit interview like all players they gave him a road map of what they would like to see him accomplish in the months of interim before he returns.

It was around that time that the nerve started to fire and he could flex his peroneal. He started training diligently to strengthen the peroneal and regain his coordination. He stopped wearing the AFO as much as possible.

That is one thing I am comfortable assuming: Jaylon is doing everything in his power to not have to wear the orthotic.

For day to day activity he didn't need it at all. For some training he did not need it like the hurdles but for the quick twitch agility drills he still needed support. They compromised on a heavy tape job.

Stephen Jones is monitoring all of this but Jaylon has not been working with Britt Brown and company since he left and when he left he was wearing the orthotic. This leaves Jones unsure of where he will stand exactly when he returns and works with the trainers he knows and trusts best. He is encouraged by the progress but is cognizant of the continuing need for support and needs to hear from his trainers and seeing for himself before making a decision. He may need an AFO. He may not need an AFO but they will have to wait and see.

Yeah, I'd say that's a fairly reasonable set of knowns and assumptions.
 
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Sydla

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Jaylon's been on a slow but steady progression since he's been drafted. He's gone from a question mark the Cowboys felt good about to a guy who was suggesting he could play at the end of last season. It's been a long road, and the information that's come out is little and confusing, but it's all been positive. We know the nerve is firing, we know he's going to play at the start of camp, we knew he's shed a few different types of braces, and we know Stephen at least thinks there's a chance he might not need a brace at all. That's a fair amount of progress so far.

As far as parsing still images or analyzing his pronation in videos goes or whatever, that stuff was all just fun speculation. I have no idea why it got ugly, and it's not just Fuzzy v. Cal Poly here. There were several other posters with more medical background involved. I agree that there was too little available to us to draw any significantly useful conclusions from. But the progress has been steady and at this point it's obvious. The range of possibilities you mention has closed from 'might not ever play again, might recover fully' to 'will play again, might not need the brace to play when he does, might recover fully.' That's a fair bit of narrowing down of the range.

Of course the range of outcomes shrunk from not being able to play again to our current situation. I don't think anyone has denied that, save for maybe a guy like mrtxstar, who was pretty adamant about him never playing.
 

Sydla

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For day to day activity he didn't need it at all. For some training he did not need it like the hurdles but for the quick twitch agility drills he still needed support. They compromised on a heavy tape job.

Stephen Jones is monitoring all of this but Jaylon has not been working with Britt Brown and company since he left and when he left he was wearing the orthotic. This leaves Jones unsure of where he will stand exactly when he returns and works with the trainers he knows and trusts best. He is encouraged by the progress but is cognizant of the continuing need for support and needs to hear from his trainers and seeing for himself before making a decision. He may need an AFO. He may not need an AFO but they will have to wait and see.

Smith doesn't need the brace for all activities. He did need some support/brace/whatever for some drills. Because of that fact, when Jones was talking in March, he knew Smith was utilizing a brace/support in some capacity and they were unsure as to whether or not he'd be able to play football with or without a brace. Hence why he said what he said.

Where's your disagreement with that?
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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Smith doesn't need the brace for all activities. He did need some support/brace/whatever for some drills. Because of that fact, when Jones was talking in March, he knew Smith was utilizing a brace/support in some capacity and they were unsure as to whether or not he'd be able to play football with or without a brace. Hence why he said what he said.

Where's your disagreement with that?

Again you don't know that he needed an AFO in March. That is not a fact. You're adding dates out of your butt to his words again.

We can rejoin where you abandoned that argument last time if you like.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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That's assuming his functionality in his foot is at the exact same level (meaning no progression) as it was back in August (8-9 months ago), requiring him to wear bulkier AFO.

There are much more streamlined AFOs out there, such as the examples provide below.

thumbnail.asp
royceafolight.jpg


That's the irony is fuzzy's argument; he believes Jaylon only wears the same bulky/hinged AFO he wore back in August of last year, so he's effectively arguing that Jaylon hasn't made any progress.

The AFO shown here says that it's "not intended for cases of severe foot drop." If we are to believe Jaylon has made progress in his recovery from dropfoot, he should be progressing to slimmer looking units as shown.

And those AFO go right up below the knee at the middle of the calf muscle.

1536uyc.jpg


The tape job ends below that by a mile.

28a49dt.jpg


No evidence of one of those where there should be one. Thanks for helping us rule at those AFO's, Cal!
 
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