Twitter: Referee Brad Allen on the 2 point conversion Illegal Touch call

[tm1119]

Look at the film. 70 is running right to the official, brushing his jersey which is the accepted sign to say...hey, I m reporting as eligible. The ref was looking at him, 70.

There is no film evidence the ref was looking at and talking to 68.

Unless you have a different camera angle, I only have seen footage of #70 running onto the field from behind him. Can’t see his hands. But maybe he did, I’m not positive on that.

But as far as #68 (Decker) not talking to the ref?

 

[DripTooHard]

They sgoukd give them a special blue flag to wear

Like a gangster?

 

[Chuck 54]

As I posted in another thread, the problem is the Lions were trying to be sneaky about it, which places the blame squarely on them.

They wanted to be as quiet about it as possible to sneak it by the Cowboys defense and in doing so they snuck it by the referee as well.

The thing no one is talking about is that the Cowboys defense were not told he was eligible, which is likely why the play actually worked as no one on the defense was expecting him to run a route.

There’s no way to sneak anything by the defense, in my opinion. First, I read that NFL rules do not limit the number of OLmen who can be eligible on any single play, but that it is entirely the responsibility of the lineman to report directly to the ref and to receive acknowledgement that he is eligible. #70 reported and the ref pointed acknowledgement to him. If 68 also reported, the ref would have to point and acknowledge it. Also, it has to be done in a timely fashion because there will be no pausing of the play clock for this, and no play can be run until after the ref announces the eligibility over the loud system for the defense and everyone else. Only #70 was announced prior to the play.

It was a natural reaction for a safety to see a player, 68, in the end zone and run towards him late, but 68 was never announced, so it would be unfair to the defense to allow it.

Either the ref screwed up or 68 reported late after 70 had reported and was not acknowledged or announced due to the ref already moving into position for the play. Bottom line is that without the announcement being made to the defense, of course the guy was open. Even if it was referee error, it wasn’t like the Lions were robbed of a score because the Cowboys were also robbed of being notified that 68 was eligible And being ready for it.

 

[JustChip]

As I posted in another thread, the problem is the Lions were trying to be sneaky about it, which places the blame squarely on them.

They wanted to be as quiet about it as possible to sneak it by the Cowboys defense and in doing so they snuck it by the referee as well.

The thing no one is talking about is that the Cowboys defense were not told he was eligible, which is likely why the play actually worked as no one on the defense was expecting him to run a route.

The other really dumb thing about this is Detroit should’ve held this under wraps until the playoffs. Detroit had nothing substantive to gain by winning this game.

 

[Jarv]

Decker makes no move when the Ref Allen goes to Cowboys player to report that no 70 is eligible,both the refs and Lions players are responsible for the fiasco.

Yep he probably thought...lol...the Cowboys don't even know I'm eligible, which of course they were supposed to be notified.

 

[Chuck 54]

They had a shot at #1 seed.

Their chances of that were more slim than the Cowboys chance of winning the East.

 

[Sully]

OK ~ here is my spin. ( Yes, I am a local 13 year football referee). Want to 100% take away "grey" area. And before I say it, this was done years past and why not now? The referee ( white hat) would make the announcement, as he would a penalty, saying, "Number ### is reporting in as an eligible receiver". This tells the entire stadium.

 

[Flamma]

What was the reason 70 was running towards the ref? Anyone?

 

[Runwildboys]

I don’t care if they tried to be sneaky, if the refs designated the wrong player the refs designated the wrong player.

Who knows what was heard but 68 was sent to declare by Goff and is standing right there with the ref. Hard to imagine he didn’t attempt to. My guess is the official misattributed it to 70.

I believe the officials always make the announcement that "#whatever has reported as an eligible receiver", so when the official didn't announce that, the Lions should've stopped and told the officials, but they didn't.

 

[KingCorcoran]

Their chances of that were more slim than the Cowboys chance of winning the East.

If you’re the Detroit Lions with their history you try to win every game. You can’t look at any game like it doesn’t matter, or there is nothing to gain. The problem for the NFL is fans’ notion that regardless of the efforts by the players on the field, officials, who do their jobs unopposed, can and do influence the outcome of games. In a couple of hours the early games begin and fans’ attention will be on those games. The NFL should simply not say a word about this. What is most unfortunate is the league’s stance that members of the Lions organization have to be lying. They have to at least consider fines for Goff and Decker, who have insinuated the official, Allen, is flat out wrong.

 

[Jarv]

What’s he supposed to do and beyond approaching the official, what did 70 do?

If you can’t stand next a ref and verbally declare yourself eligible, the rule is just stupid to begin with. That either happened or it didn’t and no amount of looking at video will determine if 68 told the official. Maybe game sounds will have it later in the week.

Like Reality said, they tried a sneak play. 70 declared himself eligible a few times already in the game and had him run towards the ref for this play.

This made the ref believe 70 was eligible and the refs announced it as so.

Once announced, right or wrong, 68 was not eligible.

Once announced that 70 was eligible, Detroit could have said whoa wait, its actually 68 is eligible, but they didn't and that's on them.

 

[Chuck 54]

So 58 and 70 are already over there talking to the ref, away from the huddle. #70 reports, is acknowledged and later announced over the loudspeaker as eligible. Then, the guy the play is designed for has to be grabbed by Goff and sent out of the huddle to report? Come on, man. Reality is right. This wasn’t the typical tackle eligible play. Either 68 was late and not recognized or announced because he was late and NFL rules state that the play clock will not be pause for any reporting or the ref got confused. The Lions either screwed it up or were trying to trick everyone. The Cowboys were never told 68 was eligible, so that’s that!

While we often call some plays “trick plays,” those are actually not allowed in the NFL. Example…years ago the NFL outlawed plays like 2 guys running on the field, but 3 guys running off, one a receiver who would stop and stand inbounds and run downfield for a TD at the snap because the defense didn’t see him standing over there nonchalantly.

Cowboys outplayed the Lions all game. Cowboys deserved the victory. Cowboys won. Go Cowboys!

 

[tm1119]

There’s no way to sneak anything by the defense, in my opinion. First, I read that NFL rules do not limit the number of OLmen who can be eligible on any single play, but that it is entirely the responsibility of the lineman to report directly to the ref and to receive acknowledgement that he is eligible. #70 reported and the ref pointed acknowledgement to him. If 68 also reported, the ref would have to point and acknowledge it. Also, it has to be done in a timely fashion because there will be no pausing of the play clock for this, and no play can be run until after the ref announces the eligibility over the loud system for the defense and everyone else. Only #70 was announced prior to the play.

It was a natural reaction for a safety to see a player, 68, in the end zone and run towards him late, but 68 was never announced, so it would be unfair to the defense to allow it.

Either the ref screwed up or 68 reported late after 70 had reported and was not acknowledged or announced due to the ref already moving into position for the play. Bottom line is that without the announcement being made to the defense, of course the guy was open. Even if it was referee error, it wasn’t like the Lions were robbed of a score because the Cowboys were also robbed of being notified that 68 was eligible And being ready for it.

Only issue with that is #70 was the last guy to run over to the ref and never even got close enough to speak to the ref. Was he making the “eligible” sign with his hands? Not sure, I haven’t seen the camera angle to prove it. But #68 was for sure talking to the ref 1st.

It’s hard to argue it against the Cowboys because there’s no denying that #68 was never announced as eligible by the ref. But I think we can all agree that we would not be fine with swallowing an L because our team didn’t fix a referee’s mistake. I’d put like 90% blame on referee and 10% on Lions for continuing to run the play after the ref announced the wrong player as eligible.

 

[DripTooHard]

Like Reality said, they tried a sneak play. 70 declared himself eligible a few times already in the game and had him run towards the ref for this play.

This made the ref believe 70 was eligible and the refs announced it as so.

Once announced, right or wrong, 68 was not eligible.

Once announced that 70 was eligible, Detroit could have said whoa wait, its actually 68 is eligible, but they didn't and that's on them.

Bingo! And everyone says 68 declared from the video but no one knows what was actually said to the ref by 68.

 

[Sully]

So, um, the focus seems to be did he report or not. But look at how they lined up. Even if Decker had reported, he was COVERED UP on the LOS by the guy standing next to him on his left. That makes him ineligible. Unless you are in the slot, meaning a step back from the LOS, only the guys in the backfield and the guys on the END of the LOS are eligible. So, as they lined up, Decker was NOT eligible. And even after the shift, he was still covered up, thus not eligible. The really funny part is that they had FOUR guys on the right side of the OL and ALL of them were ineligible due to the guy to the right not being off the LOS enough. So on this play, Detroit only had three eligible guys. The guy on the left, the guy on the right, and the RB.

Wrong, the slant receiver was OFF THE BALL which does not cover him up. The slant man is punched back

 

[Jarv]

Both reported.

Everyone saw it.

You think the Lions don’t know the rules?

With that HC of theirs?

Let’s be real.

The refs announced 70 as eligible, not 68. The HC had that opportunity to correct the announcement and choose not to. It's on him.

 

[sideon]

All he said was "report". It's loud on the field and the ref was not looking at him, he has to make sure the ref heard him and is clear about what is going on, this is a big moment in the game, on the road. Something like "68 reporting as eligible" and make sure and get some kind of confirmation he heard you. making eye contact, a head nod, thumbs up, something. It's the player's responsibility to ensure the ref is aware. The ref made the announcement over the microphone to the entire stadium #70 reporting as eligible. Decker or someone from the Lions should have caught that, ST coach or asst coach? They would have had time to correct the ref or at the very least change the play call in the huddle before going to the LOS.

Except there's video footage of Brad looking right at 68 and giving him the nod.

 

[Reality]

OK ~ here is my spin. ( Yes, I am a local 13 year football referee). Want to 100% take away "grey" area. And before I say it, this was done years past and why not now? The referee ( white hat) would make the announcement, as he would a penalty, saying, "Number ### is reporting in as an eligible receiver". This tells the entire stadium.

He did announce it over the PA system. There is a video confirming this but he states #70, not #68, is eligible.

 

[Hawkeye0202]

All he said was "report". It's loud on the field and the ref was not looking at him, he has to make sure the ref heard him and is clear about what is going on, this is a big moment in the game, on the road. Something like "68 reporting as eligible" and make sure and get some kind of confirmation he heard you. making eye contact, a head nod, thumbs up, something. It's the player's responsibility to ensure the ref is aware. The ref made the announcement over the microphone to the entire stadium #70 reporting as eligible. Decker or someone from the Lions should have caught that, ST coach or asst coach? They would have had time to correct the ref or at the very least change the play call in the huddle before going to the LOS.

+1 ......well said

 

[Reality]

There’s no way to sneak anything by the defense, in my opinion. First, I read that NFL rules do not limit the number of OLmen who can be eligible on any single play, but that it is entirely the responsibility of the lineman to report directly to the ref and to receive acknowledgement that he is eligible. #70 reported and the ref pointed acknowledgement to him. If 68 also reported, the ref would have to point and acknowledge it. Also, it has to be done in a timely fashion because there will be no pausing of the play clock for this, and no play can be run until after the ref announces the eligibility over the loud system for the defense and everyone else. Only #70 was announced prior to the play.

It was a natural reaction for a safety to see a player, 68, in the end zone and run towards him late, but 68 was never announced, so it would be unfair to the defense to allow it.

Either the ref screwed up or 68 reported late after 70 had reported and was not acknowledged or announced due to the ref already moving into position for the play. Bottom line is that without the announcement being made to the defense, of course the guy was open. Even if it was referee error, it wasn’t like the Lions were robbed of a score because the Cowboys were also robbed of being notified that 68 was eligible And being ready for it.

The sneaky part was sending 3 linemen to the referee and hoping that the defense made their own assumptions when #70 came running in and ran straight to the referee.

I am not saying it's not legal for them to do that, but when you try to sneak things by the defense, those same assumptions can be inferred by the referees as well.

Normally, the linemen already on the field are not the ones who report as eligible. The lineman/linemen running onto the field are usually the ones who are reporting as receivers, usually for blocking reasons.

So, the referee likely assumed #70, who came running on to the field directly at him, was the one reporting.

That was likely a mistake but as I have said several times already, the burden is on the team requesting the non-eligible player become eligible to make sure the referee hears and announces the reporting player.

In this case that message was not clearly conveyed most likely because they were more focused on confusing (sneaking it by) the Cowboys defense and instead they confused the referee, which was way more important.