Refs Admit Mistake(s)... Found on ESPNDallas and not ESPN

TheCount

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links18;3083745 said:
One more thing on this. Many people on this board are complaining left right and center that they did not penalize McCarthy for challenging a play when he had no challenges left. That's fine, but on that same score, shouldn't Wade be penalized for challenging a play that is not reviewable? That slows down the game just as much as challenging with no challenges. Shouldn't teams be held accountable to know the rules on challenges? Then again, the refs didn't even know them. :(

No. Refs tell coaches something isnt reviewable all the time. It wouldnt slow the game down if they just said, no, you cant.
 

Hoofbite

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Periera could probably do two or three segments of official review with the tape from that game.
 

RoadRunner

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rocyaice;3082781 said:
They can't do that. They did that crap last year with the Hockley, Chargers and Bronco's game. The ruled the play dead so the Chargers got screwed out of the W. But what I don't understand is that they didn't stop play so why is Felix landing on top of the ball not reviewable? They didn't stop play. I understand its a rule but goodness. They were so incompetent last night I don't even know if they knew what city they were in.

It was the most poorly officiated game I have ever seen.
 

RoadRunner

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The30YardSlant;3082882 said:
http://img4.*************/img4/2020/ch21sunnov152009055022p.jpg

Touches the ball, knee is down, play is dead. Notice how he is also contacting the returner's forearm and hand.

You CANNOT conclusively rule that McBriar touched him at all from this photo.
 

Beast_from_East

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RoadRunner;3084088 said:
It was the most poorly officiated game I have ever seen.

Reminded me of the Pitt vs Sea SuperBowl that was gifted wrapped for the Rooneys.

Just like I got the feeling during that game that the refs were not going to let Pitt lose, I got the same feeling yesterday that there was no way in hell the refs were going to let GB lose.
 

RealCowboyfan

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VegasMalone;3082726 said:
I wonder whyyyyyyyyy

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/news/story?id=4658671

Two challenges at center of miscues


Comment Email Print Share var stobj = SHARETHIS.addEntry({ title:"Officials%20admit%20making%20error%20in%20Cowboys%20game", url:"http://espn.go.com/chicago/story?id=4658671", published: "2009-11-15" }); stobj.attachButton(document.getElementById("espnstlink"));
By Calvin Watkins
ESPNDallas.com
Archive
GREEN BAY, Wisc. -- NFL officials admitted to one officiating mistake and appeared to commit another in Sunday's Dallas Cowboys-Green Bay Packers game.
The first occurred with the Cowboys trailing 10-0 in the fourth quarter. Packers cornerback Charles Woodson forced a fumble on a corner blitz when he sacked Cowboys quarterback Tony Romo. When the ball popped loose, running back Felix Jones appeared to recover near the Cowboys' 20, but Packers defensive end Johnny Jolly dove on top of Jones, forcing the ball to come loose again. Linebacker Clay Matthews scooped the ball and was pushed out of bounds by tight end Jason Witten at the Cowboys' 3 with 11:41 to play.
Cowboys coach Wade Phillips challenged, saying Jones recovered and didn't lose the ball. After about a two-minute pause in play, referee Jeff Triplette said the fumble couldn't be challenged. He admitted that the crew wasted time starting the review process when they shouldn't have.
"They said because they ruled it a fumble all the way through, that I couldn't challenge it even though we recovered the ball and our guy was touched and he knew the guy was down," Phillips said.
Triplette said to a pool reporter after the game. "My mistake, that's not a reviewable aspect of a play. A recovery of a loose ball in the field of play is not reviewable by rule. So we just couldn't review it."
Triplette said he never actually got a chance to review the play because he and other officials began talking about whether the play was reviewable.
"We never got in the booth to review," he said. "Just put the headphones on and starting talking through what we had."
Cowboys owner Jerry Jones says he understands why the rule doesn't allow for review of possession of fumbles, but that there should be room for exceptions.
"I know why they have it because so many times there are piles and scrums so it gets really hard to see," Jones said. "But that wasn't a play out in the middle of the field where you'd have a scrum."
The other apparent mistake by the crew occurred with 6:29 to play in the fourth quarter. Cowboys wide receiver Patrick Crayton made a diving catch for 14 yards. The Packers challenged the catch, but after another delay in play, Triplette said Green Bay didn't have any more challenges left.
According to the NFL rule book, Rule 15, Section 9, "For initiating a challenge when all of a team's timeouts have been exhausted or when all of its available challenges have been used: Loss of 15 yards."
But the referees allowed play to continue without penalizing the Packers, who had used up all their challenges.
"I have to ask the league," about the call, Phillips said. "We don't have any challenges left and you challenge and stop the game. It kind of helps you regroup. I thought it was at least a delay of the game, but it wasn't."
If the penalty is called, it would have moved the Cowboys from the Packers' 29 to the 14. The Cowboys were turned away on that drive when Romo threw an interception at the goal line with 5:53 remaining and Dallas trailing, 17-0.
The Cowboys would go on to lose 17-7.
Calvin Watkins covers the Dallas Cowboys for ESPNDallas.com. E-mail him at calvin.watkins@espn3.com. Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.

Just like I said. Referees in the NFL is shading points too, just like that one in the NBA.
 

SilberBlau

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The30YardSlant;3082819 said:
People need to stop this. Like I posted in several other threads, 1: The ball counts as the player when the player's knee is on the ground, ergo you cannot force a fumble in that instance because the second you touch the ball he is down

Not saying you're wrong, but which rule says that? I checked the 2008 rule book and all it says is that a player has to be touched to be considered down. I can't find a sentence saying something like "Ball is part of the player who has posession".
 

CCBoy

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I didn't know that Jessie and Frank James were in Green Bay...the Youngers must have joined in as well, but I thought they were closer to Gallatin. Awe heck, must have been another of those roving gangs...
 

jimmy40

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SilberBlau;3084194 said:
Not saying you're wrong, but which rule says that? I checked the 2008 rule book and all it says is that a player has to be touched to be considered down. I can't find a sentence saying something like "Ball is part of the player who has posession".
He was touched by McBriar's arm before his hand hit the ball. It was an easy reversal.
 

ohiocowboysfan25

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nake;3084105 said:
Ha ha, refs were on it tonight...Browns had 4 timeouts in the 2nd half.

They need all the help they can get. The other team could lay down on the field and the browns couldn't score a td.
 

cowboyjoe

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nake;3084105 said:
Ha ha, refs were on it tonight...Browns had 4 timeouts in the 2nd half.

well get aload of this, how much refs get paid, while making blown calls

The NFL is offering an official entering his fifth season $62,103 in 2001, compared to the $42,295 he would have made last year as a fourth-year official for regular-season and preseason games plus various meetings and clinics. In 2003, he would earn $84,470.

The union, meanwhile is asking that a fifth-year official be paid $95,000 per season starting this year, an increase of 50 percent.

For senior officials, the difference is greater. The NFL is offering officials with 20 or more years of experience $120,998 this year. The union is asking $210,000, a 75 percent different.

The two sides are also using the other major sports for comparison. The three others use full-time officials and the NFL's are part-time, although by Condon's figures they work an average of 1,200 hours a year.

So the union noted that even if its offer is accepted, NFL officials would be the lowest paid on an annual basis. The NFL responded with a chart showing that per-game compensation in its 16-game season is double and triple the other leagues' at the 20-year level.

"We reviewed their offer and thought their offer was inappropriate and didn't address the contribution that the officials make to the game," Condon said Tuesday morning. "They thought our offer was excessive and asked for too much."

Inside the Numbers
NFL Referees Association's salary proposal to the NFL on Tuesday
(based on union members' tenure compared to other major sports)
League 1 * 5 10 15 20 25 30
NFL $75,000 $95,000 $125,000 $160,000 $210,000 $210,000 $210,000
NHL $115,000 $139,000 $176,500 $224,000 $236,000 $236,000 $236,000
MLB $105,707 $141,120 $181,044 $219,768 $255,954 $276,359 $283,345
NBA $93,000 $128,350 $172,000 $211,830 $249,010 $270,738 $292,466
* -- year(s)
 

TellerMorrow34

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rocyaice;3083049 said:
3-0 all the way into the 4th quarter is a hell of a *** whooping they gave us. That 3-0 lead sure looked real easy. :bang2:


I do agree that the refs aren't to blame but they definitely screwed up.

Don't bother. With certain people on this board it's pointless to discuss being objective with them. Some people just like sounding really stupid.


As for the McBriar fumble this is how I feel about it.

If they had originally ruled that the player was down by contact and Wade had challenged the call and not won I'd have been fine with it. I wouldn't be bugged at all cause there is no way, from the stuff shown, that they could conclusively say one way or another rather he knocked the ball loose with the knee down or not.

But the ruling on the field was that it was a fumble. So that's the only reason I was bugged by it cause there simply isn't 100%, proof positive, visual evidence to over turn the call. Could he have been down? Sure he could have. Was he? Possibly so. But there is no photo anyone has shown, or any angle of the video that was shown, where you can say that for certain. Therefor, by the rules, you can't over turn the call on the field.

That was my only gripe was that they overturned the call without it being conclusive. Like I said had the ruling on the field been down by contact and they didn't overturn it I wouldn't be bothered by it at all. I think it was that close a call.
 

SilberBlau

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jimmy40;3084286 said:
He was touched by McBriar's arm before his hand hit the ball. It was an easy reversal.

I'm not argueing with that, actually I think they made the right call. But I can't find the mentioned rule either. And I want to know that rule to make more educated rants in the future ;)
 

alancdc

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Boyzmamacita;3082753 said:
Whether a play is reviewable or not, don't the officials have the option of changing a call that they know is bad? The implication is that they knew that Felix was down by contact, but since it isn't reviewable, they didn't review it. Why not just change it to the correct call since they knew it was wrong?

Makes logical sense, but I don't believe so. I also wondered why they didn't get a penalty. If there are no consequences to throwing a red flag when you have none left just go throw it when a team is driving. Makes no sense.
 

AbeBeta

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links18;3083807 said:
OK, well then the rule is bogus. If the call on the field is clearly wrong and replay shows it, it should be reversed. Right?

You can't make everything reviewable. For example, if this became a reviewable part of a play then every time there was a fumble, you could challenge who came up with it... that would be a disaster because you'd rarely have good film on it. Ours was a rare play - and you don't want to allow reviews for things where you'd overturn only once in a blue moon.
 

SilverStarCowboy

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NFL, MLB and NBA Refs are easy to replace and their jobs should dictate being replaced if the calls arn't correct. As it is the Refs around profesional Sports are rich, spoiled and their lack of accountability across the board makes them teeter on being percieved as untrustworthy.
 

AbeBeta

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cowboyjoe;3084426 said:
well get aload of this, how much refs get paid, while making blown calls

Honestly, the difference in the salaries listed and the salaries the refs WANT is the difference for many guys of doing this part time vs. full time - you'd likely see improvements if the refs spent the off week studying game film and tough calls rather than going to their office jobs M-F.
 

Kevinicus

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AbeBeta;3084559 said:
You can't make everything reviewable. For example, if this became a reviewable part of a play then every time there was a fumble, you could challenge who came up with it... that would be a disaster because you'd rarely have good film on it. Ours was a rare play - and you don't want to allow reviews for things where you'd overturn only once in a blue moon.

That's a very lame excuse. If there wasn't good film on it, people would rarely challenge, and if they did decide to challenge at first, they'd stop once they kept losing due to inconclusive evidence. There's already a rule to cover cases where it's not clear what happened, no need to add another one that also removes very legitimate challenges.
 
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