Refs Admit Mistake(s)... Found on ESPNDallas and not ESPN

AmericasTeam31

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My question on the Romo / Jones fumble would be this... if the official goes under the hood to review whether or not Romo fumbles the ball, doesn't he have to review the ENTIRE play? Wade was not allowed to challenge specifically if Jones recovered the fumble and was then stripped, but if he's reviewing the ENTIRE play, is he still not allowed to overturn that call?

Secondly, if a fumble occurs and there is an immediate recovery after the play has been blown dead, that play is allowed to be reversed (similar to the Giants interception off Witten's foot). And the recovering team is awarded the ball, but not any advancement of the ball. If an official can review a fumble and determine whether it is recovered by the other team in that case, why not in the Jones case?
 

Doomsday101

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AmericasTeam31;3083248 said:
My question on the Romo / Jones fumble would be this... if the official goes under the hood to review whether or not Romo fumbles the ball, doesn't he have to review the ENTIRE play? Wade was not allowed to challenge specifically if Jones recovered the fumble and was then stripped, but if he's reviewing the ENTIRE play, is he still not allowed to overturn that call?

Secondly, if a fumble occurs and there is an immediate recovery after the play has been blown dead, that play is allowed to be reversed (similar to the Giants interception off Witten's foot). And the recovering team is awarded the ball, but not any advancement of the ball. If an official can review a fumble and determine whether it is recovered by the other team in that case, why not in the Jones case?

According to them they were not allowed to review the call. I don't know if that means the replay booth said sorry not reviewable and they never got to see the replay or not but once they were informed the called could not be reviewed it did not matter any longer. Frankly I don't understand it either since replay is suppose to determine possession. I'm sure none of us will ever get a satisfactory answer for the call.
 

ilovejerry

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VegasMalone;3082726 said:
I wonder whyyyyyyyyy

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/news/story?id=4658671

Two challenges at center of miscues


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By Calvin Watkins
ESPNDallas.com
Archive
GREEN BAY, Wisc. -- NFL officials admitted to one officiating mistake and appeared to commit another in Sunday's Dallas Cowboys-Green Bay Packers game.
The first occurred with the Cowboys trailing 10-0 in the fourth quarter. Packers cornerback Charles Woodson forced a fumble on a corner blitz when he sacked Cowboys quarterback Tony Romo. When the ball popped loose, running back Felix Jones appeared to recover near the Cowboys' 20, but Packers defensive end Johnny Jolly dove on top of Jones, forcing the ball to come loose again. Linebacker Clay Matthews scooped the ball and was pushed out of bounds by tight end Jason Witten at the Cowboys' 3 with 11:41 to play.
Cowboys coach Wade Phillips challenged, saying Jones recovered and didn't lose the ball. After about a two-minute pause in play, referee Jeff Triplette said the fumble couldn't be challenged. He admitted that the crew wasted time starting the review process when they shouldn't have.
"They said because they ruled it a fumble all the way through, that I couldn't challenge it even though we recovered the ball and our guy was touched and he knew the guy was down," Phillips said.
Triplette said to a pool reporter after the game. "My mistake, that's not a reviewable aspect of a play. A recovery of a loose ball in the field of play is not reviewable by rule. So we just couldn't review it."
Triplette said he never actually got a chance to review the play because he and other officials began talking about whether the play was reviewable.
"We never got in the booth to review," he said. "Just put the headphones on and starting talking through what we had."
Cowboys owner Jerry Jones says he understands why the rule doesn't allow for review of possession of fumbles, but that there should be room for exceptions.
"I know why they have it because so many times there are piles and scrums so it gets really hard to see," Jones said. "But that wasn't a play out in the middle of the field where you'd have a scrum."
The other apparent mistake by the crew occurred with 6:29 to play in the fourth quarter. Cowboys wide receiver Patrick Crayton made a diving catch for 14 yards. The Packers challenged the catch, but after another delay in play, Triplette said Green Bay didn't have any more challenges left.
According to the NFL rule book, Rule 15, Section 9, "For initiating a challenge when all of a team's timeouts have been exhausted or when all of its available challenges have been used: Loss of 15 yards."
But the referees allowed play to continue without penalizing the Packers, who had used up all their challenges.
"I have to ask the league," about the call, Phillips said. "We don't have any challenges left and you challenge and stop the game. It kind of helps you regroup. I thought it was at least a delay of the game, but it wasn't."
If the penalty is called, it would have moved the Cowboys from the Packers' 29 to the 14. The Cowboys were turned away on that drive when Romo threw an interception at the goal line with 5:53 remaining and Dallas trailing, 17-0.
The Cowboys would go on to lose 17-7.
Calvin Watkins covers the Dallas Cowboys for ESPNDallas.com. E-mail him at calvin.watkins@espn3.com. Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.


N-ational F-ixed L-eauge
 

links18

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DallasEast;3082778 said:
Whether the call should have been replayed is meaningless. Heck, it's less than meaningless. The entire problem rests in the fact that an N-F-L referee called it a fumble in the first place.

Forget about all the other scenarios floating around the other calls. Those are debatable. This call was as simplistic as can be made while being observed in REAL TIME by an official.

ALL of the other calls (no matter how questionable) can be utterly excused in my book. That particular call should get someone or some folks booted out of the league.

Did they rule that Felix recovered and then fumbled again or did they just rule that he never recovered. If it is the former, than that's reviewable. :confused:
 

Doomsday101

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links18;3083309 said:
Did they rule that Felix recovered and then fumbled again or did they just rule that he never recovered. If it is the former, than that's reviewable. :confused:

They ruled the ball was still free and was recovered by GB. Why they said it was not reviewable I don't understand that either.
 

links18

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Here's the problem: They said they couldn't review whether or not Felix recovered and was down because they cannot review the recovery of a fumble in the field of play. Well then WADE should have just challenged something else that is reviewable, like whether or not ROMO fumbled in the first place, therefore forcing them to review the entire play and therefore correcting their blatant mistake.

A smarter coach would have figured that out, like Bill Belicheck, oh wait, maybe not after last night. :lmao2:
 

tyke1doe

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Wade should have someone on staff who's studied the rule book. I was hollering that the Packers should have been charged a delay of game or something for challenging a play when they didn't have any more challenges.

Wade should have known that and immediately complained to the officials on the field. :mad:
 

Hypnotoad

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links18;3083316 said:
Here's the problem: They said they couldn't review whether or not Felix recovered and was down because they cannot review the recovery of a fumble in the field of play. Well then WADE should have just challenged something else that is reviewable, like whether or not ROMO fumbled in the first place, therefore forcing them to review the entire play and therefore correcting their blatant mistake.

A smarter coach would have figured that out, like Bill Belicheck, oh wait, maybe not after last night. :lmao2:

No matter what you challenge they have to review the entire play...
 

tyke1doe

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links18;3083316 said:
Here's the problem: They said they couldn't review whether or not Felix recovered and was down because they cannot review the recovery of a fumble in the field of play. Well then WADE should have just challenged something else that is reviewable, like whether or not ROMO fumbled in the first place, therefore forcing them to review the entire play and therefore correcting their blatant mistake.

A smarter coach would have figured that out, like Bill Belicheck, oh wait, maybe not after last night. :lmao2:

:laugh2:

Good one. :)
 

links18

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tyke1doe;3083324 said:
Wade should have someone on staff who's studied the rule book. I was hollering that the Packers should have been charged a delay of game or something for challenging a play when they didn't have any more challenges.

Wade should have known that and immediately complained to the officials on the field. :mad:

Yup, almost as atrocious as the officials' actions was that there was no protest at all from the Cowboys sidelines. None. Gotta find a way to make this about Wade!
 

Doomsday101

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tyke1doe;3083324 said:
Wade should have someone on staff who's studied the rule book. I was hollering that the Packers should have been charged a delay of game or something for challenging a play when they didn't have any more challenges.

Wade should have known that and immediately complained to the officials on the field. :mad:

Wade was talking with the refs that does not mean they will change their views.
 

DallasEast

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links18;3083309 said:
Did they rule that Felix recovered and then fumbled again or did they just rule that he never recovered. If it is the former, than that's reviewable. :confused:
Good question. I was going by memory alone and it could be faulty. Time for a video review! :) But it will have to wait until I get home. :( Sometimes I hate working. :mad: Why won't my Powerball numbers ever hit? :cool:
 

links18

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Hypnotoad;3083325 said:
No matter what you challenge they have to review the entire play...

You have to challenge something that is reviewable otherwise they are not supposed to go under the hood.
 

cowboyeric8

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In that picture he has yet to touch him. From that angle it looks like he is. But he hasn't yet
 

thisisepic

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CowboysFan02;3083135 said:
Oh and so I don't get labeled as someone who blames the refs, had the team(more so the offense) played better and more focused they could have overcome some bad calls and a bad replay rule.

Agreed however since it was such a close game throughout something that seems normally so small is actually what can make or break the game.
 

Yakuza Rich

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Hypnotoad;3082744 said:
I wonder how much wins does "I'm sorry" give us.

NFL needs fulltime refs not fans reffing.

My confusion about the loss is quickly turning into anger.

Full time refs doesn't really solve anything.

Full time refs mean more pay. And you're going to get the same refs and the same lack of reprecussions for poor refereeing.

The NFL needs to develop more and better referees. Do a better job of training and scrutinizing the refereeing and then get the best refs out there every Sunday. If one ref has a bad game or two, sit him down and put a new referee in there.



YAKUZA
 

Doomsday101

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Yakuza Rich;3083392 said:
Full time refs doesn't really solve anything.

Full time refs mean more pay. And you're going to get the same refs and the same lack of reprecussions for poor refereeing.

The NFL needs to develop more and better referees. Do a better job of training and scrutinizing the refereeing and then get the best refs out there every Sunday. If one ref has a bad game or two, sit him down and put a new referee in there.



YAKUZA

I agree. Some of the other sports have full time refs yet they too have bad calls taking place. I do think the NFL constantly changing rules year after year with more and more judgement calls being put into place makes the job of the refs much harder. The product is good you don't need to constantly change it.
 

casmith07

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Hypnotoad;3083325 said:
No matter what you challenge they have to review the entire play...

Correct. Numerous times we have seen the referee go under the hood and actually spot the ball somewhere else despite going under to review a fumble, or a catch, etc.
 

aquavita

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The30YardSlant;3083214 said:
If that isnt "inconclusive evidence" then nothing is and the challenge system is pointless

I'm sorry you're so convinced of yourself that nothing will persuade you, but again, you're just wrong. Sorry. :) You don't agree that it isn't conclusive evidence, and that's fine. I don't expect everyone to understand, but NFL refs are paid to understand and it was a bad call, especially given the luxury of slow-motion replay.
 

fanfromvirginia

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Doomsday101;3083333 said:
Wade was talking with the refs that does not mean they will change their views.

But Wade's post game remarks made me think he wasn't clear on the rule and likely didn't make the case to the refs.

The original post was right--I was shouting the same thing. That's Wade's job to either know that or have someone who does who can quickly get in Wade's ear.
 
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