Regarding the new forum changes *** MERGED ***

[Reality]

Ok. So basically you've decided this is the best option and no suggestions are really necessary. Just wanted to clarify.

Suggestions on how to improve the current system are always welcome. Complaints about going back to the old one-forum system aren't "suggestions" .. just complaints.

 

[theogt]

Sorry...it appears you are going to find it inconvenient and have your mind set before giving it a long enough chance.

As I said in a previous post, you can make some of the people happy some of the time but you will not make all of the people happy all of the time.

Funny thing is we tried something similar to what you suggested, but because of the mentality that it is too hard to click a mouse button people did not go there...it was called the zone of fame, the recap zone, the opinion zone and so on.

This will actually limit that to lesser zones as time goes on.

What is clear at this time, as Reality has said, we are not going back to the old way of having everything in one zone. If this causes a few people to leave I hate that, but at the same time we have already lost what I consider quality posters, from their own words, because they are tired of wading through the way it was before.

So, I ask you to give it a chance, give it some time and let us work out the bugs.

Either you will or you will not...that really is your choice.

Sounds like you guys have your minds up and don't really care for suggestions. That's fine. All you had to say is you don't care to hear suggestions.

 

[theogt]

Suggestions on how to improve the current system are always welcome. Complaints about going back to the old one-forum system aren't "suggestions" .. just complaints.

Well, maybe -- just maybe -- the change wasn't for the better. You don't seem to be open to that idea.

You can chalk it up to people just resisting change, but that's a bit irrational.

 

[Concord]

Because in essence what you are doing is leaving it as it was and not addressing the multiple problems that existed.

Maybe a example of a problems would help.

You would still have those threads in there getting pushed off the forum because of lesser threads...and those that just don't want to move between sections to get the threads will still not bother with doing it.

If the quality threads are in the Daily zone why does it matter if they get pushed off the front page or not. People will be able to find them in the Daily zone.

It is the one zone mentality that is trying to be changed.

It gives people the option of one, the other or both...but not all in one that was causing the problems.

If it was working so well with no problems, there would not have been discussions about changing it to begin with.

You or the other user may not see the problems before, while many others have had problems and let the mods know.

Again what are some of the problems? Not arguing just would like to know some so I could see what I'm doing wrong.

In the end I say give it a chance.

Someone once said...You can make some of the people happy some of the time, but you will never make all of the people happy all of the time.

That is really true. But we will try to do what we think will work best for the site in the long term, not just the short term.

Obviously I have no choice but to give it a chance.

 

[Hostile]

BP, what do you think about this?

Problem: Quality threads go unnoticed because they get buried.

Solution: Create a Zone in which only the "quality threads" can be accessed. However, do not take those threads out of the "main forum."

The problem with having all of the quality threads in a separate zone is that no one goes to it, because it's an inconvenience to flip back and forth. The other zone gets about a post every 15 minutes or so. When you take away the "quality threads" from this zone and place them in a zone this isn't frequented as much, you lessen the quality of this zone and increase the quality of a zone that isn't visited.

Thoughts?

You guys are losing me on this point. Why would no one go to it?

It seems to me that is where you'd go first. Where you find the most current articles, recaps, etc.

Here's the deal, if you want the very best info on the Dallas Cowboys we are going to bust our butts to make sure it ends up in one convenient place to find it. The pressure is on us as Mods, not on the membership at all.

People talk about jumping between 2 forums as if that is extremely hard. Try doing what we do which is to jump between 15 or so all day, every day to make sure crap is being left all over the forum.

2 forums is a hardship? Please.

The reason that top forum the "Cowboys daily Zone" will not have threads created there for now is so that trolls will not clutter the best info on the Cowboys. If Adam posts a salary cap update we'll make sure it gets to the CDZ.

Let me stress this to everyone...we will gladly accept your help with this. If you find an article on FoxSports or anywhere else and you post it. PM any of the staff with the URL and we will put it in that forum. If you post a recap, let us know. We'll move it so it gets seen.

Basically the only differences between the changes and what we had before is that we are going to make a controlled and conerted effort to keep that forum filled with only the best and most recent news, etc.

Tell me how that's bad? How is it bad to not have to sift through 3 pages of "Parcells must go," "TO is a cancer," and "If only we still had Q at QB?"

If those are the threads you crave they'll still be here.

The only inconvenience I see is the one on us to find the best stuff and that you can't automatically post a new thread in the CDZ, you have to post it in the Fan Zone before we move it to that forum.

I don't see the difference between that and your thread being moved to another Zone after it falls off of page 3 as it does now.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Sounds like you guys have your minds up and don't really care for suggestions. That's fine. All you had to say is you don't care to hear suggestions.

Suggestions on how to improve going into the new system yes.

Suggestions to basically go back to the old...no, it was changed for a reason, why would we just turn around and basically make it the same again.

A suggestion about adding the link to make it easier to switch between the too was a good idea and Reality said he would make that change. That is something going forward with the change.

The suggestions that are basically saying, go back to the old way are not what we are looking for.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Well, maybe -- just maybe -- the change wasn't for the better. You don't seem to be open to that idea.

You can chalk it up to people just resisting change, but that's a bit irrational.

And the same could be said for your view.

Just maybe the change is for the better but you are not open to the idea. You can chalk it up to people not accepting the change right now at this minute as proof...but without giving it time that would not be very rational.

 

[Juke99]

Here's a suggestion. Just use the site for a while. Reserve judgment and then see how you feel after a week or so.

I'd be willing to bet that if, for the past three years, the site was set up as it is right now, and we switched it to what it looked like yesterday, it would be a bit of a culture shock. AND would take some getting used to.

Don't forget, those of you who have been here for a while, things are bound to change as the place grows. It's just part of the growth process.

There was a time when one forum was all we needed. Ya know, when you have 42 members, that's fine.

Honestly, I am a bit lost here right now too. But I was really starting to dislike having to scroll through pages of opinions, TO threads, etc to find some hardcore news. Now, I know exactly where to go for it.

It really comes down to getting used to something new.

 

[theogt]

You guys are losing me on this point. Why would no one go to it?

It seems to me that is where you'd go first. Where you find the most current articles, recaps, etc.

I don't know why people don't go to it. They just don't. It's a fact that the other zone gets much less traffic.

People talk about jumping between 2 forums as if that is extremely hard. Try doing what we do which is to jump between 15 or so all day, every day to make sure crap is being left all over the forum.

2 forums is a hardship? Please.

The reason that top forum the "Cowboys daily Zone" will not have threads created there for now is so that trolls will not clutter the best info on the Cowboys. If Adam posts a salary cap update we'll make sure it gets to the CDZ.

You can say it's not an inconvenience all you want. You can say it shouldn't be an inconvenience all you want. The problem is that it's an inconvenience.

Oh, and after Adam's post is moved, it will disappear into obscurity where no one will read it.

Let me stress this to everyone...we will gladly accept your help with this. If you find an article on FoxSports or anywhere else and you post it. PM any of the staff with the URL and we will put it in that forum. If you post a recap, let us know. We'll move it so it gets seen.

Great. It will be moved to a zone where no one will notice it.

Basically the only differences between the changes and what we had before is that we are going to make a controlled and conerted effort to keep that forum filled with only the best and most recent news, etc.

Tell me how that's bad? How is it bad to not have to sift through 3 pages of "Parcells must go," "TO is a cancer," and "If only we still had Q at QB?"

It's bad because you're taking all of the good threads and putting them in a place where no one will see them. The thread where everyone gathers will only have the "TO is a cancer" threads. That's a problem.

Should people only gather in the one thread? Maybe not. Should people be too lazy to click back and forth? Maybe not.

These points are irrelevant however because people won't read the other forum, and the "good threads" will go largely unnoticed.

If those are the threads you crave they'll still be here.

The only inconvenience I see is the one on us to find the best stuff and that you can't automatically post a new thread in the CDZ, you have to post it in the Fan Zone before we move it to that forum.

I don't see the difference between that and your thread being moved to another Zone after it falls off of page 3 as it does now.

No, it's an inconvenience for people to have to switch back and forth between websites in order to gain information.

Two forums is basically exactly that -- two different websites.

 

[theogt]

Suggestions on how to improve going into the new system yes.

Suggestions to basically go back to the old...no, it was changed for a reason, why would we just turn around and basically make it the same again.

A suggestion about adding the link to make it easier to switch between the too was a good idea and Reality said he would make that change. That is something going forward with the change.

The suggestions that are basically saying, go back to the old way are not what we are looking for.

Well maybe you should take those types of suggestions, because they're obviously correct. The old system was much better.

 

[Reality]

Well, maybe -- just maybe -- the change wasn't for the better. You don't seem to be open to that idea.

You can chalk it up to people just resisting change, but that's a bit irrational.

I don't "assume" it's simply resistance to change .. however, I do know that people hate change. I also know that what you favor does not necessarily mean what other people favor.

These changes were created and discussed at length by the entire moderator team. A lot of tweaks and adjustments were made over several weeks to finalize the new forum structure.

We aren't arrogant and we realized beforehand that some users would not like the change. We also had a long list of users who were complaining to us about hating the old system as well. Honestly, it's a no-win situation .. no way to make everyone happy.

What we did was put personal choices behind what's best for the userbase as a whole. Form a personal standpoint, I totally agree .. having one single forum is easier. On smaller sites, this works perfectly. Right now though, with the traffic CZ has and the number of posts made each day, good posts quickly disappear off the main page and into oblivion because they aren't troll or controversial threads.

With the old system, some of the better writers we have had no incentive to put any real thought or effort into posting. Why? Why would you spend 20-30 minutes writing something only to have it drop off the main page within 15 minutes?

Oh, but there were a billion TO sucks, TO is god, Fire Zimmer, Zimmer's not to blame, I wish we still had Quincy, Romo for MVP, Romo sucks, etc. threads .. in fact, if you missed one, there would be another added for you within the hour.

There are times when I go to the site during the day that I have 30 minutes to surf and read whatever. Then, there are times when I have 2-3 minutes and I want to see if anything important is happening with the Cowboys.

Just the last week or so I missed several good threads because they were posted and dropped off the main page (and in some cases were moved to other forums) before I even knew they were posted. I just happened to run across them while looking for another old thread that I had posted in and couldn't find (go figure).

So, we are moving forward .. making suggestions on how to improve the new system are welcomed. AdamJT's suggestion to add links to make forum switch easier was a great idea.

-Reality

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Maybe a example of a problems would help.

People leaving because they are tired of the zone turning into a TO love hate, QB love hate, Zimmer Love Hate main section. And having to wade through threads to find good quality articles or threads.

If the quality threads are in the Daily zone why does it matter if they get pushed off the front page or not. People will be able to find them in the Daily zone.

Because you would have two threads of the same article taking up space on the site.

Obviously I have no choice but to give it a chance.

I have told co-workers and other people in life that you always have choices..just may not always be the choices they will like.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

Here's a suggestion. Just use the site for a while. Reserve judgment and then see how you feel after a week or so.

I'd be willing to bet that if, for the past three years, the site was set up as it is right now, and we switched it to what it looked like yesterday, it would be a bit of a culture shock. AND would take some getting used to.

Don't forget, those of you who have been here for a while, things are bound to change as the place grows. It's just part of the growth process.

There was a time when one forum was all we needed. Ya know, when you have 42 members, that's fine.

Honestly, I am a bit lost here right now too. But I was really starting to dislike having to scroll through pages of opinions, TO threads, etc to find some hardcore news. Now, I know exactly where to go for it.

It really comes down to getting used to something new.

Hell I just figured after I first came to the new site yall just kicked me out.

 

[theogt]

People leaving because they are tired of the zone turning into a TO love hate, QB love hate, Zimmer Love Hate main section. And having to wade through threads to find good quality articles or threads.

How many of those people do you think will want to visit the "Fan Zone" which recieves probably 90+% of the traffic now?

 

[Reality]

Oh, and after Adam's post is moved, it will disappear into obscurity where no one will read it.

That was already happening in the old system except now everyone knows where it was moved to! Before it was a guessing game.

 

[theogt]

I don't "assume" it's simply resistance to change .. however, I do know that people hate change. I also know that what you favor does not necessarily mean what other people favor.

These changes were created and discussed at length by the entire moderator team. A lot of tweaks and adjustments were made over several weeks to finalize the new forum structure.

We aren't arrogant and we realized beforehand that some users would not like the change. We also had a long list of users who were complaining to us about hating the old system as well. Honestly, it's a no-win situation .. no way to make everyone happy.

What we did was put personal choices behind what's best for the userbase as a whole. Form a personal standpoint, I totally agree .. having one single forum is easier. On smaller sites, this works perfectly. Right now though, with the traffic CZ has and the number of posts made each day, good posts quickly disappear off the main page and into oblivion because they aren't troll or controversial threads.

With the old system, some of the better writers we have had no incentive to put any real thought or effort into posting. Why? Why would you spend 20-30 minutes writing something only to have it drop off the main page within 15 minutes?

Oh, but there were a billion TO sucks, TO is god, Fire Zimmer, Zimmer's not to blame, I wish we still had Quincy, Romo for MVP, Romo sucks, etc. threads .. in fact, if you missed one, there would be another added for you within the hour.

There are times when I go to the site during the day that I have 30 minutes to surf and read whatever. Then, there are times when I have 2-3 minutes and I want to see if anything important is happening with the Cowboys.

Just the last week or so I missed several good threads because they were posted and dropped off the main page (and in some cases were moved to other forums) before I even knew they were posted. I just happened to run across them while looking for another old thread that I had posted in and couldn't find (go figure).

So, we are moving forward .. making suggestions on how to improve the new system are welcomed. AdamJT's suggestion to add links to make forum switch easier was a great idea.

-Reality

Here's the problem. You're not going to please everyone. With the old system you had a winning formula. It was the most popular Cowboys website on the internet.

With the new system, you have an jumbled up mess that it's difficult to navigate to get all of your information, and all of the good information typically goes unnoticed.

 

[Juke99]

Hell I just figured after I first came to the new site yall just kicked me out.

We considered changing the URL to the site and letting everyone know except you....but we figured someone would tell ya anyway.

 

[theogt]

That was already happening in the old system except now everyone knows where it was moved to! Before it was a guessing game.

Except in the old forum it wasn't moved until it has been discussed or reviewed for a good long while. Now it is moved immediately, and thus gets probably less than half the views.

 

[Concord]

People leaving because they are tired of the zone turning into a TO love hate, QB love hate, Zimmer Love Hate main section. And having to wade through threads to find good quality articles or threads.

Couldn't have been that many people leaving.

Because you would have two threads of the same article taking up space on the site.

OK so this can be done? It's just a space thing? Like not enough room on the server or whatever. I get it you're not going back...Just a question.

I have told co-workers and other people in life that you always have choices..just may not always be the choices they will like.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

How many of those people do you think will want to visit the "Fan Zone" which recieves probably 90+% of the traffic now?

They can visit the other zone.

The problem is people for far too long have been set in their ways and only willing to view one section of the forum no matter how much quality is in other sections. And with that mentality they have to wade through a bunch of threads they don't want to see in order to find the ones they do want to see.

The reason one section is getting 90+% of the traffic now is due to the one zone mentality that has existed for so long on this board.

It is because users are so set in their ways, or just don't know any better, to view other sections of the forum. So what they do is just stick to one section.

As long as that mentality continues, as you are suggesting, than it will stay that way and people will have problems wading through threads to find what they want just because they do not click a mouse button to find what they are looking for due to a one zone mentality.