Regarding the new forum changes *** MERGED ***

[Juke99]

Here's the problem. You're not going to please everyone. With the old system you had a winning formula. It was the most popular Cowboys website on the internet.

With the new system, you have an jumbled up mess that it's difficult to navigate to get all of your information, and all of the good information typically goes unnoticed.

I saw it that way with the way the "old" site was organized.

I'd come here to get some quick news...and I'd find a ton of threads about TO and Zimmer, etc.

The hardcore news stuff would fly off the first page...and if I didn't have the time to look at the following pages, by the time I came back, the news article would be moved to an archive zone, never to be seen.

I think what you have to keep in mind is that as with any organization, the structure has to change as the organization grows.

If you look at a business, when the business is small there is no need for different departments, divisions, levels of managers. Ultimately, you can get by with a flat organization.

But as the business grows, the only way to retain some semblance of organization is to break things down into smaller components. Ya know, departments with managers; divisions with division managers, etc.

If you don't change the structure, you've got a problem on your hands.

I hope this at least gets the point across that we are looking NOT ONLY for today but for the future, when membership is 15,000 people.

They all can't go to one forum. It won't work. Threads will be 4 pages deep in that one forum in a matter of minutes.

 

[Reality]

How many of those people do you think will want to visit the "Fan Zone" which recieves probably 90+% of the traffic now?

Please don't go making stupid statements like that in an attempt to get other people to side with you.

I can easily run a report and tell how many users visited each forum today and I can assure you that most users visited both forums. There will always be more users "Viewing" the Fan Zone because that's where most of the posts will be .. always. Most of the posts made on CowboysZone are in controversial and highly opinionated threads. The best threads rarely receive posts but they get read by most users.

As I have said several times now, using post counts to justify "what users like" is baseless .. It's like saying most people only drive 10 miles to work every day so there really is no need for interstates or cars that drive for more than 30 miles on a tank of gas.

-Reality

 

[theogt]

They can visit the other zone.

The problem is people for far too long have been set in their ways and only willing to view one section of the forum no matter how much quality is in other sections. And with that mentality they have to wade through a bunch of threads they don't want to see in order to find the ones they do want to see.

The reason one section is getting 90+% of the traffic now is due to the one zone mentality that has existed for so long on this board.

It is because users are so set in their ways, or just don't know any better, to view other sections of the forum. So what they do is just stick to one section.

As long as that mentality continues, as you are suggesting, than it will stay that way and people will have problems wading through threads to find what they want just because they do not click a mouse button to find what they are looking for due to a one zone mentality.

Ok. If what you say is true, then eventually there will be equal (or at least closer levels) of traffic in both threads.

If after several months pass by and that isn't the case and still no one goes to the other zone, would you be willing to admit you were wrong?

 

[theogt]

Please don't go making stupid statements like that in an attempt to get other people to side with you.

I can easily run a report and tell how many users visited each forum today and I can assure you that most users visited both forums. There will always be more users "Viewing" the Fan Zone because that's where most of the posts will be .. always. Most of the posts made on CowboysZone are in controversial and highly opinionated threads. The best threads rarely receive posts but they get read by most users.

As I have said several times now, using post counts to justify "what users like" is baseless .. It's like saying most people only drive 10 miles to work every day so there really is no need for interstates or cars that drive for more than 30 miles on a tank of gas.

-Reality

Run the report in two weeks. Let me know what you find. I'm sure it won't be the case that my "stupid statement" was far off from the truth.

At that point will you admit that it was stupid of you to think otherwise?

 

[Hostile]

Maybe a example of a problems would help.

Okay, I think this is a fair request. I'm going to pick on one user, an old friend.

About a week ago iceberg made a great post about the team. I mean it was really good. The problem was he made it right after the Philly loss and the board was hopping. By the next morning it was moved to another forum and it only had 12 hits. He was discouraged because he had written a very nice, well thought out post. I understand this. When someone puts that kind of effort into something you hate to see it ignored. So I moved it back to the Main forum and replied to it to move it back to the top.

Suddenly it got good hits and traffic. The reason was people had ranted the night before and got it out of their systems.

Okay, that is just taking into account a thread author. Let's say you go on vacation and miss 2 days worth of Cowboys news. Given the system that was in place before today how long would it take you to find out all the happenings of the previous 2 days? Not just one hot topic with 9 different threads on the subject, all the relevant stuff. Injury updates, articles, PC recaps, etc?

To do that finding, how many forums would you have to visit to find it all? We're trying to make it so that you can find it in just one place without having to dig everywhere. This makes it nice for anyone who will be away from the board for an extended amount of time.

Now let's address what are simply bad threads. Do you like wading through them to find the good stuff? I don't think anyone does. We're hoping (I'm talking fingers crossed, and going on hunger fasts) that by doing this people will actually care enough about getting their well thought out posts in that CDZ forum that they will think through their thoughts and really post great stuff. Is it asking too much? Maybe it is. I hope it isn't. Someone pointed out how some people feel the need to make new threads all the time. We had a poster about a few weeks ago who created 25 one line new threads with single line ideas in about 10 minutes. The entire 1st page was all of his one line irrelvant thoughts.

"Is Canty going to be a star?"

"Do you like the practice uniforms?"

"Is it going to rain next weekend in Atlanta?"

Just some examples of the content he posted. No thought put into the fact Atlanta is a domed stadium and rain did not matter. He just wanted attention.

How's that for examples?

If the quality threads are in the Daily zone why does it matter if they get pushed off the front page or not. People will be able to find them in the Daily zone.

This is the forum we want everyone to visit and to get their threads into. We want people finding articles, posting recaps, creating good discussions, etc. If the quality goes up and they get pushed off the first page it is still more convenient to find the real quality stuff isn't it? Just go to page 2 or 3. We'd love that.

Again what are some of the problems? Not arguing just would like to know some so I could see what I'm doing wrong.

Addressed, hopefully to your satisfaction. If not, please ask for clarification.

Obviously I have no choice but to give it a chance.[/qoute]Sure you do and we honestly do care. Someone suggested we don't want suggestions. Yes, we do. If this isn't working we will find a way to make it better. We believe this will work if people give it a fair chance which isn't happening with some of you yet. We are never in stasis here. We always try and improve this forum. We believe this will.

Give us a chance to prove it.

 

[Frosty]

Except in the old forum it wasn't moved until it has been discussed or reviewed for a good long while. Now it is moved immediately, and thus gets probably less than half the views.

Shock and AWE... awe we'll be all right....trust us.....

I got some faith it'll be better, but if it starts acting like Bill Parcells is running things, I might be second guessing it then.

 

[Reality]

With the old system you had a winning formula.

That is your opinion .. You haven't received the countless number of complaints like we have.

See, the reason CZ is popular is because when it was smaller, that system worked. However, as sites grow, changes have to be made to handle that growth. Just because you love a 2-seat car doesn't mean you can keep it if you have kids. I mean the 2-seat car may have impressed your spouse, but it doesn't mean your kids ride in the trunk just so you can keep it.

-Reality

 

[Hostile]

I don't know why people don't go to it. They just don't. It's a fact that the other zone gets much less traffic.

You can say it's not an inconvenience all you want. You can say it shouldn't be an inconvenience all you want. The problem is that it's an inconvenience.

Oh, and after Adam's post is moved, it will disappear into obscurity where no one will read it.

Great. It will be moved to a zone where no one will notice it.

It's bad because you're taking all of the good threads and putting them in a place where no one will see them. The thread where everyone gathers will only have the "TO is a cancer" threads. That's a problem.

Should people only gather in the one thread? Maybe not. Should people be too lazy to click back and forth? Maybe not.

These points are irrelevant however because people won't read the other forum, and the "good threads" will go largely unnoticed.

No, it's an inconvenience for people to have to switch back and forth between websites in order to gain information.

Two forums is basically exactly that -- two different websites.

Your mind is made up.

Hate it with all your heart I guess. You're not even trying to see the purpose in it.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Except in the old forum it wasn't moved until it has been discussed or reviewed for a good long while. Now it is moved immediately, and thus gets probably less than half the views.

That's just it...when the threads were getting off the first page or two it was not getting viewed for a long time.

Not because it was not worthy of being viewed, but because other threads (flame or bait threads) would dominate and push them off the pages.

The problem is now is people just don't want to click to look in another forum.

This current measure is an attempt to help break that mentality.

In the end it seems like it may just be too hard of a burden for you to consider just making a mouse click or two. Not sure what is so hard about that. Why it is so hard to break a one zone mentality.

If you want to read the news articles, recaps and quality threads go to one section. Go in the threads and comment on them.

If you want a debate type of situation threads, go in the other section.

Really the only problem I see is people unwilling to take the time to click a mouse button and resist any change before giving it a chance.

That really seems to be what it boils down to IMO.

It is just too much of a burden to click a mouse button. :

 

[bbgun]

I take it old forums like "off topic" and "2007 draft" will remain, but haven't been added yet?

 

[Reality]

Run the report in two weeks. Let me know what you find. I'm sure it won't be the case that my "stupid statement" was far off from the truth.

At that point will you admit that it was stupid of you to think otherwise?

I will be very happy to do this For even if I am wrong, we won't be going back to the old system. As I said, the other option is to split Fan Zone into 4-5 forums removing the main forum concept completely. That would be the next thing we would try if this system did not work. That being said, I don't see us ever having to go to that other option.

 

[Hostile]

How many of those people do you think will want to visit the "Fan Zone" which recieves probably 90+% of the traffic now?

In 2 days what will that traffic level be? We actually hope it swings to the other Zone. We'll do everything in our power to see to it. That is the point.

 

[theogt]

Your mind is made up.

Hate it with all your heart I guess. You're not even trying to see the purpose in it.

Right now I have a feeling. It's not going to change in the next few minutes, if that's what you're suggesting.

I see the purpose.

You guys want to move the quality threads to another forum, so they stick around a little longer.

Do you see the problem with this? The other forum doesn't get much traffic, so basically the quality threads go virtually unviewed.

 

[theogt]

In 2 days what will that traffic level be? We actually hope it swings to the other Zone. We'll do everything in our power to see to it. That is the point.

But if it doesn't, will you admit that the change made things worse?

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Ok. If what you say is true, then eventually there will be equal (or at least closer levels) of traffic in both threads.

If after several months pass by and that isn't the case and still no one goes to the other zone, would you be willing to admit you were wrong?

Time will tell. If it works out it does, and we think it will given time, if it does not than things will be changed.

It is not a matter of one person being right or the other wrong, and if that is your mentality in this situation you are missing the boat.

It is trying to make the board better in a long term situation as the site grows.

 

[Reality]

Shock and AWE... awe we'll be all right....trust us.....

I got some faith it'll be better, but if it starts acting like Bill Parcells is running things, I might be second guessing it then.

This was completely a moderator team decision .. it's very rare I pull rank. That is why this place is as popular as it is ..

 

[Hostile]

Ok. If what you say is true, then eventually there will be equal (or at least closer levels) of traffic in both threads.

If after several months pass by and that isn't the case and still no one goes to the other zone, would you be willing to admit you were wrong?

Yes. We're not stupid.

When the quality goes up and the traffic does too will you admit you are wrong? It is going to.

 

[theogt]

Time will tell. If it works out it does, and we think it will given time, if it does not than things will be changed.

It is not a matter of one person being right or the other wrong, and if that is your mentality in this situation you are missing the boat.

It is trying to make the board better in a long term situation as the site grows.

It's not my mentality. I don't care about being right or wrong. I care about quality content, and right now it seems like we're getting less.

Look at the threads that have been moved. Before they're moved they garner many more replies than after they're moved.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Couldn't have been that many people leaving.

Sometimes it is not the quantity of people leaving or getting frustrated, it is the quality. I will be blunt and say there could be a huge number of people that left and if they were people I felt were nothing but trouble makers I would not mind at all. However if there are a few number of people leaving that I think are quality posters than that tends to bother me.

OK so this can be done? It's just a space thing? Like not enough room on the server or whatever. I get it you're not going back...Just a question.

It is not just a space thing, but that is one consideration.

 

[theogt]

Yes. We're not stupid.

When the quality goes up and the traffic does too will you admit you are wrong? It is going to.

If it does, then I'll be very happy. I've seen where sites do things similar to this. It doesn't work. Everyone gravitates to one area and doesn't visit the other areas.