Replacing a Weakness

[fishspill]

I'm fine with doing the turnover thing to get better. Just don't expect to make the playoffs next year.

And we have to hope they hit on high picks and not swing and miss like they did trying to build an OL early in a Romo's career.

 

[Vinnie2u]

Were there any good safeties or CB's available when we picked up Randy 2 years ago. Or when we picked Jaylon Last year. The FO New we were losing the jags. If the plan was to replace them in the draft this year. We in trouble.

 

[thisiscowboyscountry]

People are acting like everyone is freaking out because we lost a few overpaid scrubs in the secondary. We're freaking out because we continue to go into each season with a bunch of nobodies on the defense, particularly the D-line. Our hope rests in the talents of one-game-wonder David Irving and recent-3rd-round-pick Charles Tapper. Marinelli manages to not improve the D-line at all with each passing year. Heck, if not for Sean Lee, who was already here when Marinelli got here, our defense would be historically awful. And it looks like purging our secondary will give us another year of not addressing the D-line early in the draft. People forget that our entire core on offense, outside of Dak, is composed of 1st round picks (Zeke, Dez, Beard, Smith, Martin). Not to mention, our best defensive player in recent history, Ware, was also a 1st round pick. Meanwhile, our current defense is built of a few 2nd round gambles and a bunch of mid-to-late round guys with low ceilings.

They did try to address the de position with Lawrence and Gregory whom they had 1st round grades on. That obviously hasn't panned out yet, so now we're back to square one for 2017. It's hard to blame them for not tackling the position in 2017 as after franchise tags there wasn't much available outside of aging veterans. I can't see an immediate impact de being available based on where we pick in the draft so it's likely pass rush by committee again this season. At this point they should explore Mario Williams, Dwight Freeney, or see if Ware is really serious about retirement... Obviously stop gap players but may be more ready to comtribute than picking another Lawrence type player...

 

[erod]

This looks like a 2-3 year project.

 

[JoeyBoy718]

They did try to address the de position with Lawrence and Gregory whom they had 1st round grades on. That obviously hasn't panned out yet, so now we're back to square one for 2017. It's hard to blame them for not tackling the position in 2017 as after franchise tags there wasn't much available outside of aging veterans. I can't see an immediate impact de being available based on where we pick in the draft so it's likely pass rush by committee again this season. At this point they should explore Mario Williams, Dwight Freeney, or see if Ware is really serious about retirement... Obviously stop gap players but may be more ready to comtribute than picking another Lawrence type player...

Of course they had a 1st round grade on Gregory. Everyone did. But he was such an epic knucklehead that no team wanted to touch him in the first two rounds. That's why it's called "taking a gamble." We gambled and we lost. My point is that we usually go with the safe pick on offense in the 1st round and the gamble (high risk, high reward) pick on defense in the 2nd round. When you continuously go that route, you're left with nothing when the gambles don't pay off. We prioritize offense and don't leave anything to chance, while doing the complete opposite on defense and wonder why the talent levels on offense and defense are drastically different.

 

[willia451]

Let's take a look at what we know for sure.

1. There are going to be people out there playing football in the secondary for the Cowboys.

2. They won't be the same people we had in 2016.

3. We don't know who they will be. But we know they will be out there. And we know they will be people.

There you have it.

 

[robjay04]

People are acting like everyone is freaking out because we lost a few overpaid scrubs in the secondary. We're freaking out because we continue to go into each season with a bunch of nobodies on the defense, particularly the D-line. Our hope rests in the talents of one-game-wonder David Irving and recent-3rd-round-pick Charles Tapper. Marinelli manages to not improve the D-line at all with each passing year. Heck, if not for Sean Lee, who was already here when Marinelli got here, our defense would be historically awful. And it looks like purging our secondary will give us another year of not addressing the D-line early in the draft. People forget that our entire core on offense, outside of Dak, is composed of 1st round picks (Zeke, Dez, Beard, Smith, Martin). Not to mention, our best defensive player in recent history, Ware, was also a 1st round pick. Meanwhile, our current defense is built of a few 2nd round gambles and a bunch of mid-to-late round guys with low ceilings.

What exactly would you have done to change to layout on defensive line with the limited resources we had available to us in cap dollars and draft picks? Did you realize that this is the weakest free agency class in at least a decade?

Would you trade away any of those players you mentioned that make the strength of our team, the reason we went 13-3, for a defensive linemen? If so, who would you realistically switch them for? Do you realize that their were only six defensive ends in the NFL last season with double digit sacks? None of them were in our division.

Are you willing to let Martin walk in order to invest those resources in our defensive line?

 

[robjay04]

I'm fine with doing the turnover thing to get better. Just don't expect to make the playoffs next year.

And we have to hope they hit on high picks and not swing and miss like they did trying to build an OL early in a Romo's career.

Because we let the players that averaged 4 interceptions a season and made up the 26th ranked passing defense we are going to miss the playoffs?

The strength of this team is still present, we didn't win 13 games last season and 12 in 2014 because of that secondary...but we are going to miss the playoffs now since we let them walk?

How about we play some games and see who their replacements are before we make predictions that our 26th ranked passing defense that doesn't sniff interceptions is going to digress so bad that we miss the playoffs.

 

[JoeyBoy718]

What exactly would you have done to change to layout on defensive line with the limited resources we had available to us in cap dollars and draft picks? Did you realize that this is the weakest free agency class in at least a decade?

Would you trade away any of those players you mentioned that make the strength of our team, the reason we went 13-3, for a defensive linemen? If so, who would you realistically switch them for? Do you realize that their were only six defensive ends in the NFL last season with double digit sacks? None of them were in our division.

Are you willing to let Martin walk in order to invest those resources in our defensive line?

I don't know what I would have done differently. I don't get paid to be a GM. That's the NFL. You decide on a direction you want to go and you do it. We prioritized O-line and gambled on defense. You could argue that we could've done things differently though. Perhaps we could've settled with our O-line at a certain point instead of keep dumping resources into it when it was already dominant. I'm not saying this would've been the right decision, but let's not pretend that people here won't be happy if we spend this year's 1st on a RT. So yet another 1st round pick (hypothetically) on a 5-man unit that already has 3 All pro 1st rounders. Is that too much investment in one unit? You could also argue about why we wasted so much time and resources in our secondary (particularly Carr and Claiborne) when we switched to a scheme that didn't fit them. We spent 5 years with those guys instead of flipping them early when they still had value. Or why we spent three 2nd round picks on TE with no intention of using them. Or all the gambles on defensive players with off-the-field or injury issues who hardly ended up playing when we could've gotten less talented but more reliable guys with those picks. Just to name a few.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

The game schematics have changed drastically the past 10 years. Look at the pass chart diagrams as well as average time that QB's hold onto the ball. It equates to shorter pass patterns, quicker throws and getting the ball out to the perimeter more often. QB's are more about sending extra receivers out on pass plays than having extra protection. This negates the effectiveness of the outside rush. Now your edge rushers in a 4-3 have to be more like 3-4 OLB's...get upfield and expect to chase the ball afterward.

This has also increased the use of more players that fit the safety position. Lots of 'rover backs', traditional SS playing linebackers, more 3 safeties in nickel and dime packages.

Now QB's are more affected by interior pressure than edge pressure and you really have to build a defense from the DB's to the LB's then to the D-Line. 10 years ago you built your defense from D-Line to the DB's and then the smart play was to place a low priority on LB's.

The good news is I expect this team to play a lot more zone coverage. It's easier to find zone corners because they don't need elite speed and have those special, unique physical abilities required to be a good man corner. Instead, if you have a CB that has a good feel for zone coverage and tackles well, you pretty much have the guy you want. Like Mike Zimmer once said...I can find 10 zone corners off the street.

I don't think Rod has had the corners he wanted since he's been the D-Coordinator outside of Scandrick. Every corner we have picked up is more like Scandrick as a DB than they are like Carr or Claiborne.





YR

 

[CyberB0b]

It's because folks are afraid of change.

Fear of loss almost always outweighs fear of gain.

Pass defense has been the "Achilles heal" for this team for quite a while... And it certainly isn't all about pass rush either.

 

[robjay04]

I don't know what I would have done differently. I don't get paid to be a GM. That's the NFL. You decide on a direction you want to go and you do it. We prioritized O-line and gambled on defense. You could argue that we could've done things differently though. Perhaps we could've settled with our O-line at a certain point instead of keep dumping resources into it when it was already dominant. I'm not saying this would've been the right decision, but let's not pretend that people here won't be happy if we spend this year's 1st on a RT. So yet another 1st round pick (hypothetically) on a 5-man unit that already has 3 All pro 1st rounders. Is that too much investment in one unit? You could also argue about why we wasted so much time and resources in our secondary (particularly Carr and Claiborne) when we switched to a scheme that didn't fit them. We spent 5 years with those guys instead of flipping them early when they still had value. Or why we spent three 2nd round picks on TE with no intention of using them. Or all the gambles on defensive players with off-the-field or injury issues who hardly ended up playing when we could've gotten less talented but more reliable guys with those picks. Just to name a few.

I can't argue with anything you just said but our running game/efficient passing offense is what is our strength, that is our identity. If we were to prioritize defensive line more instead of the continued investments on the offensive line, we may have a good running game, a good defense but nothing that is truly "elite". In my opinion, most of the Super Bowl teams I have seen recently have at least one elite aspect. No team is going to have All Pro players all over the board.

The game schematics have changed drastically the past 10 years. Look at the pass chart diagrams as well as average time that QB's hold onto the ball. It equates to shorter pass patterns, quicker throws and getting the ball out to the perimeter more often. QB's are more about sending extra receivers out on pass plays than having extra protection. This negates the effectiveness of the outside rush. Now your edge rushers in a 4-3 have to be more like 3-4 OLB's...get upfield and expect to chase the ball afterward.

This has also increased the use of more players that fit the safety position. Lots of 'rover backs', traditional SS playing linebackers, more 3 safeties in nickel and dime packages.

Now QB's are more affected by interior pressure than edge pressure and you really have to build a defense from the DB's to the LB's then to the D-Line. 10 years ago you built your defense from D-Line to the DB's and then the smart play was to place a low priority on LB's.

The good news is I expect this team to play a lot more zone coverage. It's easier to find zone corners because they don't need elite speed and have those special, unique physical abilities required to be a good man corner. Instead, if you have a CB that has a good feel for zone coverage and tackles well, you pretty much have the guy you want. Like Mike Zimmer once said...I can find 10 zone corners off the street.

I don't think Rod has had the corners he wanted since he's been the D-Coordinator outside of Scandrick. Every corner we have picked up is more like Scandrick as a DB than they are like Carr or Claiborne.





YR

Nice post.

I completely agree. I do believe this is a "secondary friendly" defense to an extent. We give up a lot of yards but our defenders are typically in the right place and prevent huge plays. Rod probably thinks he can get identical production out of the secondary players at half the cost of the guys we let go and he even has a chance to get better players if they fit the scheme better. Players that can get in the right position AND make a play on the ball.

I don't think it's a huge gamble considering our passing defense does not get interceptions and statistically, this has been a fairly bad unit for years after trotting out the same players we just let go for most of the last 4 seasons.

 

[Noclaf]

Don't you guys understand if they had not screwed up the cap so bad I bet all of the guy would have been back or most. It's because all they do is restructure contracts is why this happend. You were, 13-3 you should have been able to add to this team not decimate the D because you had no cap room.

 

[robjay04]

Don't you guys understand if they had not screwed up the cap so bad I bet all of the guy would have been back or most. It's because all they do is restructure contracts is why this happend. You were, 13-3 you should have been able to add to this team not decimate the D because you had no cap room.

We could've resigned anyone we wanted to. We may appear tight this season but we could've pulled some triggers if we needed any of these guys back. Hell, we still have a little room now and more room to come whenever we figure out what we are going to do with Romo Yes, I know these "triggers" represent potentially negatively on the cap in the future but our cap situation actually drastically improves after this season and we don't have many long term contracts to hand out for a few seasons after Martin.

We were 13-3 yes...but we let the weakest aspect of our team walk and we are hoping to replace them with younger, cheaper players. Jerry Jones thought exactly like you did in 2008---he refused to let this team get decimated after going 13-3 so we gave Ken Hamlin a huge contract, Flozell Adams, Marion Barber and we traded multiple picks for Roy Williams. These moves equaled dead money and a "special teams" draft that costed Tony Romo a good chunk of his career. I don't want the same for Dak Prescott. I would prefer to invest what money we have elsewhere then in a secondary that's is at best a bottom half unit in the league.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Now QB's are more affected by interior pressure than edge pressure and you really have to build a defense from the DB's to the LB's then to the D-Line. 10 years ago you built your defense from D-Line to the DB's and then the smart play was to place a low priority on LB's.

Agreed.

The emphasis of the defense should be on the secondary.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Don't you guys understand if they had not screwed up the cap so bad I bet all of the guy would have been back or most.

You are the one who doesn't understand. The Cowboys could have resigned anyone we wanted to. Created salary cap for all if needed. But they chose not to. They all got overpaid. At least we aren't complaining about the Cowboys overpaying a bunch of scrubs.

 

[fishspill]

Because we let the players that averaged 4 interceptions a season and made up the 26th ranked passing defense we are going to miss the playoffs?

The strength of this team is still present, we didn't win 13 games last season and 12 in 2014 because of that secondary...but we are going to miss the playoffs now since we let them walk?

How about we play some games and see who their replacements are before we make predictions that our 26th ranked passing defense that doesn't sniff interceptions is going to digress so bad that we miss the playoffs.

They played a lot of keeping things underneath and tackle. They did it well. They got to 13-3 with it. Played a conservative style and did well.

Now you're assuming we're bringing in replacements that can either do that better or be so dynamic that we can let loose and play a more aggressive style. But the guys we had got jobs. If they hadn't maybe I'd buy we can get better easily.

You're welcome to be optimistic. I prefer to be reasonable.

 

[waving monkey]

Don't you guys understand if they had not screwed up the cap so bad I bet all of the guy would have been back or most. It's because all they do is restructure contracts is why this happend. You were, 13-3 you should have been able to add to this team not decimate the D because you had no cap room.

So you want the Church's,Wilcox,Carr's of yesteryear back?

 

[waving monkey]

They played a lot of keeping things underneath and tackle. They did it well. They got to 13-3 with it. Played a conservative style and did well.

Now you're assuming we're bringing in replacements that can either do that better or be so dynamic that we can let loose and play a more aggressive style. But the guys we had got jobs. If they hadn't maybe I'd buy we can get better easily.

You're welcome to be optimistic. I prefer to be reasonable.

I think its reasonable to say at least one position will be better served.I'd say another might be less prepared but then we're moving forward.
The timing was right

 

[Floatyworm]

All of us would agree that teams should focus their offseason efforts on improving upon their weaknesses. In 2016, we had a very efficient passing offense, arguably the best rushing offense in the league and statistically a very good rushing defense.

Out of those 3 units, we have not suffered any huge losses. Most of our offseason losses have come from our passing defense. Our passing defense was our weakness in 2016 and has been for quite some time. Last season, with JJ Wilcox, Brandon Carr, Barry Church and Morris Claiborne playing (or not playing because of injury), our defense ranked 26th in the league in passing defense. I have defended some of these players on here and they are not awful players but the numbers do not lie.

Before Rod Marinelli came to Dallas, his defenses were known for getting turnovers. In the last 4 seasons, Wilcox, Carr, Church and Mo had a grand total of 16 interceptions. That averages to 4 per season COMBINED. Each player had seasons where they didn't even have a single interception. In my opinion, it is unacceptable for any secondary player that plays a majority of snaps to not get a single interception for an entire season, especially when you are a seasoned veteran which all 4 of those players should be considered at this point.

Now, after taking in those statistics, most of which are well known to this message board. Why in the world would you allocate in excess of 5 million dollars per season, per player to keep this unit together? How much worse can we possibly be than 4 interceptions per season and a 26th ranked passing defense? I know it can "always be worse". I was here for the 2013 season when we had the worst defense in Cowboys history....so were all 4 of the players we let go.

I am happy we are embracing some change and actually trying to fix a weakness instead of overpaying to keep the status quo. You can't let one good season blind you from your end goal. The 2007 season blinded Jerry Jones in handing out huge, regrettable contracts to Ken Hamlin, Flozell Adams and Marion Barber...and eventually led to the trade for Roy Williams. That set our team back years and cost Romo a good part of his career, we can't do the same to Dak.

Funny how they keep blaming the players....for not executing the horrible scheme and game plan.

And now they are "too expensive" to resign. I don't care who you have back there. You could have pro bowlers across the board..and it still wouldn't matter. This zone scheme we are going back too is garbage. Hoping an offense will make a mistake...is equivalent to an ostrich sticking it's head in the sand.

If we are exclusively going to be a zone oriented secondary...then I expect us to give up more yards than we ever have. Considering we have no pass rush....

After going back and watching the playoff loss...I'm more convinced than ever...we will never win as long as Marinellie is the defensive coordinator.

Here is to 2017....