Report: Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 crashes in Ukraine...w/video

[WoodysGirl]

Woman loses relatives in 2 Malaysia air disasters
SYDNEY (AP) — In an almost incomprehensible twist of fate, an Australian woman who lost her brother in the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 learned on Friday that her stepdaughter was on the plane shot down over Ukraine.

Kaylene Mann's brother Rod Burrows and sister-in-law Mary Burrows were on board Flight 370 when it vanished in March. On Friday, Mann found out that her stepdaughter, Maree Rizk, was killed along with 297 others on Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, which U.S. intelligence authorities believe was shot down by a surface-to-air missile.

"It's just brought everyone, everything back," said Greg Burrows, Mann's brother. "It's just ... ripped our guts again."

Burrows said his family was struggling to understand how they could be struck by such horrible luck on two separate occasions with the same airline.

"She just lost a brother and now a stepdaughter, so..." he said of his sister, his voice trailing off.

Read the rest: http://news.yahoo.com/woman-loses-relatives-2-malaysia-air-disasters-102012283.html

 

[CCBoy]

https://gma.yahoo.com/weapons-could-brought-down-mh17-why-004124836--abc-news-topstories.html


There is also more than one system to consider. A statement from the U.S. Embassy in Kiev earlier today noted that Ukrainian military analysts believe the Russian-made SA-17 Grizzly, or BUK-M2 as it’s known in Russia, may have fired the fatal shot.

“If true, this represents a significant escalation,” the Embassy said. The Embassy described the SA-17 as a “sophisticated system requiring a whole suite of radar and command vehicles.”

The SA-17 Grizzly is one of the more recent of the Russian BUK family of medium-range surface-to-air missile systems. Unlike shoulder-fired, MANPAD rockets, which have a limited range, the SA-17 is a large, mobile missile system fired from military vehicles that can reach tens of thousands of feet in the air – more than high enough to hit a jetliner at cruising altitude, according to an Australian industry analysis of the system.

Developed by the Russians, the SA-17 system has been a point of pride in Moscow where it was featured among other weapons systems in Russian Victory Day parades through Red Square. The state-owned Russian news outlet RIA Novosti reported last year that Russian armed forces hoped to upgrade to a newer version of the missile system in 2016.

Prior to the SA-17, the Russians developed the SA-11 Gadfly, or BUK-M1, which both the Russian military and the Ukrainian military operate. While less sophisticated, missiles fired from the SA-11 can still reach more than high enough to knock out an airliner at cruise altitude, according to IHS Jane’s Missiles and Rockets editor Doug Richardson.

The Ukrainian military also has permanent, fixed position surface-to-air missile systems that would have “no difficulty downing a target flying at 30,000 feet,” but Richardson said operators for those would “have a good idea of the air traffic present in the surrounding area, so would be unlikely to mistake an airliner for a combat aircraft.”

 

[burmafrd]

I have to agree with you on this one. While individuals are free to speculate to their heart's content, our Government should be more tempered. It is tragic that 300 lost their lives--and no one is debating that--but Russia and Ukraine our in a conflict and this was obviously not an intentional move. The international community will investigate the best they can and offer condemnation and punitive actions to the group they determine is responsible, but with the number of civilian casualties from our Middle East and Africa campaigns dwarfing 300, along with our tacit support for the Israeli actions (of which casualties 80% are civilian), we do not have the moral high-ground lead this charge on our own.

what a joke. Moral high ground? Who needs one? thugs shot down an airliner. Find them and give them justice at the point of a gun. Very simple.

Putin is the ultimate responsible one for all of this. He is the one that supported all the trouble that has happened. Without him none of this happens.

 

[burmafrd]

https://gma.yahoo.com/weapons-could-brought-down-mh17-why-004124836--abc-news-topstories.html


There is also more than one system to consider. A statement from the U.S. Embassy in Kiev earlier today noted that Ukrainian military analysts believe the Russian-made SA-17 Grizzly, or BUK-M2 as it’s known in Russia, may have fired the fatal shot.

“If true, this represents a significant escalation,” the Embassy said. The Embassy described the SA-17 as a “sophisticated system requiring a whole suite of radar and command vehicles.”

The SA-17 Grizzly is one of the more recent of the Russian BUK family of medium-range surface-to-air missile systems. Unlike shoulder-fired, MANPAD rockets, which have a limited range, the SA-17 is a large, mobile missile system fired from military vehicles that can reach tens of thousands of feet in the air – more than high enough to hit a jetliner at cruising altitude, according to an Australian industry analysis of the system.

Developed by the Russians, the SA-17 system has been a point of pride in Moscow where it was featured among other weapons systems in Russian Victory Day parades through Red Square. The state-owned Russian news outlet RIA Novosti reported last year that Russian armed forces hoped to upgrade to a newer version of the missile system in 2016.

Prior to the SA-17, the Russians developed the SA-11 Gadfly, or BUK-M1, which both the Russian military and the Ukrainian military operate. While less sophisticated, missiles fired from the SA-11 can still reach more than high enough to knock out an airliner at cruise altitude, according to IHS Jane’s Missiles and Rockets editor Doug Richardson.

The Ukrainian military also has permanent, fixed position surface-to-air missile systems that would have “no difficulty downing a target flying at 30,000 feet,” but Richardson said operators for those would “have a good idea of the air traffic present in the surrounding area, so would be unlikely to mistake an airliner for a combat aircraft.”

as I pointed out earlier, absolutely identifying the missile is paramount. And frankly with the seps in charge of that area what are the chances that anyone can be sure of what evidence will be found?

Bottom line is that they need to make sure of where the shot came from; if it came from area controlled by the seps then make that the point of it all.

 

[CCBoy]

Roger...

 

[CCBoy]

http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-rebels-shot-down-mh17-russia-could-reap-144258055.html

Russian security experts – if not the Kremlin – were coming to grips Friday with the likelihood that the Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17 was shot down by an advanced air defense missile wielded by pro-Russian rebels in Ukraine's eastern Donetsk region.

If the allegations prove true, they warn the global outrage against Russia will be comparable to the white-hot fury that took hold after the USSR shot down Korean airliner KAL 007 in 1983 after mistaking it for a US spy plane.

A similar level of isolation and world-wide condemnation could be facing Russia now, they say, unless President Vladimir Putin takes decisive steps to demonstrate that the Kremlin wants to be a constructive actor amid Ukraine's spiraling crisis.

 

[CCBoy]

German Chancellor Angela Merkel said the shooting down of a passenger plane over rebel-held territory in Ukraine will not on its own trigger additional European sanctions against Russia.

Merkel called for an impartial probe of the downing of the Malaysian plane and put the onus on Russian President Vladimir Putin to end the pro-Kremlin uprising in eastern Ukraine.

“Events have shown that the priority has to be on a political solution and that it is especially Russia’s responsibility for what is going on in Ukraine right now,” Merkel told reporters in Berlin today.
http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...-fresh-eu-russia-sanctions-awaits-plane-probe

 

[burmafrd]

http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-rebels-shot-down-mh17-russia-could-reap-144258055.html

Russian security experts – if not the Kremlin – were coming to grips Friday with the likelihood that the Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17 was shot down by an advanced air defense missile wielded by pro-Russian rebels in Ukraine's eastern Donetsk region.

If the allegations prove true, they warn the global outrage against Russia will be comparable to the white-hot fury that took hold after the USSR shot down Korean airliner KAL 007 in 1983 after mistaking it for a US spy plane.

A similar level of isolation and world-wide condemnation could be facing Russia now, they say, unless President Vladimir Putin takes decisive steps to demonstrate that the Kremlin wants to be a constructive actor amid Ukraine's spiraling crisis.

Russia has ultimate responsibility for everything that is happening in Ukraine right now. They are the ones that pushed the separatists to take action. They are the ones supplying them with arms and 'advisors'. It is all on Putin but I doubt the so called international community has the stones to really make that clear and do something about it. Right now world wide there are no good leaders ANYWHERE that I can see. Not a one that is not an empty suit.

 

[CCBoy]

http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-rebels-most-plane-recorders-081444987--finance.html

KIEV, Ukraine (AP) — Emergency workers, police officers and even off-duty coal miners — dressed in overalls and covered in soot — searched through wreckage and bodies scattered across sunflower fields and Ukrainian villages Friday after a Malaysian jetliner flying high above the country's battlefield was shot down, killing 298 people.


Separatist rebels who control the area where the Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was brought down said they had recovered most of its black boxes and were considering what to do with them. Their statement had profound implications for the integrity of the plane crash investigation.

 

[CCBoy]

Russia has ultimate responsibility for everything that is happening in Ukraine right now. They are the ones that pushed the separatists to take action. They are the ones supplying them with arms and 'advisors'. It is all on Putin but I doubt the so called international community has the stones to really make that clear and do something about it. Right now world wide there are no good leaders ANYWHERE that I can see. Not a one that is not an empty suit.

True, Burma...and Putin, in his full arrogance, has pushed way beyond the Cold War crisis period. That part is undeniable, and this plane being shot out of the sky, is a product, as you state, of him.

 

[WoodysGirl]

I'm only gonna say this once...

NO POLITICS!

 

[Tabascocat]

Unfortunately, no one is going to shoulder the blame in the end. Wrists and hands will be slapped, words from various governments will be thrown about, etc. I think Putin(Russia) is to blame but nothing will come of it. Obama(USA) along with other countries in that region do not want to tangle with Russia.

It is sad that this happened and I feel for the families effected from this. They will be awarded some punitive damages and be sent on their way.

The plane should not have been flying over that region to begin with, reroute in another direction to avoid the storm IMO............

I wonder if this was an American airliner if the ensuing outcome would be different....probably not.

 

[Tabascocat]

I'm only gonna say this once...
NO POLITICS!

This whole thread is political in nature WG, might as well close it

It will only get worse from here........

 

[WoodysGirl]

This whole thread is political in nature WG, might as well close it

It will only get worse from here........

I disagree.. The direction of certain posts were taking it down that path, but the thread isn't really political in that sense...if people keep it about the plane crash. Some folks just can't seem to help themselves even though they know better.

 

[WoodysGirl]

 

[Phoenix]

http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-rebels-most-plane-recorders-081444987--finance.html

KIEV, Ukraine (AP) — Emergency workers, police officers and even off-duty coal miners — dressed in overalls and covered in soot — searched through wreckage and bodies scattered across sunflower fields and Ukrainian villages Friday after a Malaysian jetliner flying high above the country's battlefield was shot down, killing 298 people.

Yeah...videos are starting to emerge of this...grim grim grim. Won't link to any of them but they are out there. I've done this morbid task before myself, cleaning up remains of crashed fighter pilots. It's gut wrenching.

 

[CCBoy]

From a commonly shared heart source...this thing still brings a tear to my eyes.

I've never let go of the emotions...lol.

 

[iceberg]

looks like some phone calls were intercepted between the rebels and russia. first claiming they shot down *another* ukranian transport plane as they did it earlier in the week. later calls revealed they later realized it was a civilian passenger plane.

The tapes were released by SBU, Ukraine's security agency, and transcript was published in the Kiev Post. It appears to capture the chaotic moments after the plane was shot down — and the realization that it was a passenger plane rather than a Ukrainian transport plane, which had been targeted in recent days by the Russia-backed separatists.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/0...calls-point-finger-in-jet-downing-at-russian/

 

[WoodysGirl]

looks like some phone calls were intercepted between the rebels and russia. first claiming they shot down *another* ukranian transport plane as they did it earlier in the week. later calls revealed they later realized it was a civilian passenger plane.

The tapes were released by SBU, Ukraine's security agency, and transcript was published in the Kiev Post. It appears to capture the chaotic moments after the plane was shot down — and the realization that it was a passenger plane rather than a Ukrainian transport plane, which had been targeted in recent days by the Russia-backed separatists.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/0...calls-point-finger-in-jet-downing-at-russian/

Yeah, the transcript was posted on the first page, but some of the tidbits that's come out since then has somewhat validated that transcript.

 

[burmafrd]

they have pretty much narrowed down the area where the missile was fired from; absolutely a separatist controlled area. So that is that.

Now the real question is was it a captured Ukraine system or one the Russians supplied recently.

And who was operating it. Separatists or Russian 'volunteers'

with reports already showing that the accident scene has been disturbed, and the separatists interfering, there is no way this will ever be considered a clean investigation.

But I think more than enough will be shown to point the finger right at them and Putin as being responsible.

Sadly I do not see the leadership or iron in the spine in the west to really make Russia and above all Putin pay.