Rev. Al, Russell Simmons, PETA add their two cents on Vick...

[aikemirv]

Originally Posted by superpunk
I like dogs, and I think puppies are adorable, yada yada yada...

but do you find it odd that we are outraged that someone could do this to animals we consider pets - but we don't care what people do to our food before we get that hamburger or veal? I realize the difference between entertainment and food - but it's cruel either way, and both are techncally unecessary.

I mean, technically, isn't horse racing pretty cruel in the name of entertainment? Circuses? I don't know. I can see where people would say "it's just a dog". Why do we determine that it is fine for us to dominate one kind of animal but live in partnership with another?

I think if people really think on that for a while, they can acknowledge that the line is at least a little blurry.
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I can make obtuse comparatives too. But do we pit two hamburgers against each other for sick jollies and profit. I am not a big fan of hunting either but at least hunters don't go around trailing a deer and shooting it to make it suffer. Some hunt to eat as well and even if it is for sport it has a beneficial effect in some instances such as thinning out overpopulated areas. Hunters also don't go around slamming deer to the ground, electrocuting them or engaging in rape breeding.

We exploit animals for work, consumption and sport but that doesn't even come close to manipulating dogs to fight to the death week after week.

Ok, this rape breeding thing is a little overblown IMO. These are fierce dogs that would sometimes tear each other apart during breeding. These thinngs I would guess are more for dog protection than for "rape".

 

[Vtwin]

Another disgusting post. So, let's kill some dogs, insult some women. What next???

No offense, but is there any intelligent life left??? Socrates, oh, you must be turning in your grave.

It was a joke Einstein! My dogs thought it was funny.Maybe I'll have them explain it to you sometime.;-)

 

[Vtwin]

Hunters.

My answer to your question is two-fold: No, IF the meat in your daily food consumption diet consists only of deer meat--for which I doubt since you mentioned when you would eat the deer meat (e.g. in winter). Yes, IF the meat in your diet is not solely restricted to the deer meat which you have hunted, but also extends to what you willingly buy for substance.
Hunters.

Question: Why not transplant 'starving' deer to another area where food is plentiful AND where their natural predators are also more plentiful AND will help control their population?

Scratch that. I forgot. The number one predator of deer is Man. Cool.

Treehuggers!!!I usually only eat venison in the winter because hunting season is in the fall and if I am able to shoot a deer it does not last an entire year. If I could eat venison all year I would. Transplant the deer!? LOL. You ever get out of the city? Where are these "natural" predators to be found? Yuo are right about one thing, man is about the only natural predator of deer left (with a few exceptions of course). In my area man is THE only real predator.Transplant the deer he says. LMAO!Treehuggers!!!

 

[Vtwin]

I could do it. I could pull the trigger.

But why????

And as far as "hunting helps control the deer population, which spares deer from starving. . . ." Bunk.

That is just rationalization from trigger-happy "men" who believe paying hundreds for a lease and thousands for guns, amo and other equipment somehow makes them more manly . . . In truth you "sportsmen" on your treehouses and camoflage bunkers just make you look ridiculous in your morning mist outfits, your SUVs and them weapons that you can barely fire without bruising your shoulder.
Question: Gee, what did the poor deer do 500 years ago before the onset of hunting as "sport"? Did they overpopulate and die off . . . no that cannot be it cause they are not extinct.


And it goes without saying (except for Vick): Dog fighting is sadistic, unnecessary and illegal.

You need to get out more.In this area there are more deer now then there most likely were 500 years ago. There are also no more wolves or mountain lions to keep the population in check.Do you understand that a buck deers only thought every fall is to impregnate as many doe as he possibly can? He doesn't have to worry about feeding the fawns or taking care of them in any way. What do you think would happen to the population if there were no method of control to take the place of the natural predators that mostly no longer exist?I wish I could show yo some pictures I took from my kitchen of a group of starving deer trying to get through a particularly hard winter we had here a couple years ago. They completely overbrowsed the area and the deep snow kept them from moving on. You want to see cruel, check out mother nature sometime.

 

[Stautner]

I tried to be a complete vegetarian and not eat fish, but I had some health side affects and read some more on it.

Simply, if something is necessary for me to survive healthfully, then I don't see how I can find it unethical. I need fish to maximize my health, it is a necessary function. It doesn't necessarily diminish the fish's right to life in my viewpoint, but my need outweighs it.

On the other hand, beef is not a necessity for me to be healthy in any sense, and might even serve to hurt my health in some ways. It is just as simple not to eat beef as to eat it, with no poor health side affects.

That's the distinction.

I still don't get it - if it's wrong it's wrong.

If it's right for those higher on the food chain to eat those that are lower, then it's right.

Sounds to me that you've just found a justification. I understand health issues, but the bottom line is that if it is wrong or immoral to kill animals then there is not justification.

Nevertheless, even with your argument, fat and protein in some quantities is essential to a healthy diet, so even if it can be had from other sources, it is still a diet staple - like what you get from fish - and if you can justify supplementing your diet for one you can for the other.

Sorry, almost every serial killer was an abuser of animals first.

And even if they do not kill the human being they live with, it goes to tell you a lot about the person. What person hurts an innocent??? A coward first off. Yeh, you can. Who is to talk???

Anyone that hurts an animal and enjoys it has a very, very sick mind.

You logic fails miserably in that every person that starts out abusing animals does not become a serial killer.

Don't get me wrong - it turns my stomach to think of people abusing animals, but logic is logic.

 

[The30YardSlant]

The one good thing to come out of this entire Vick is debacle is how royally pissed off PETA is going to get, and nothing is quite as humerous as watching tree hugging hippes getting their panties in a wad. :laugh2:

 

[trickblue]

http://img.***BLOCKED***/albums/v628/cowboyszone/temp/fresh_beef.jpg

 

[jimmy40]

Okay, maybe not stupid because I think kids today are much brighter than I was when I was their age.

Watch MTV for about five minutes and you might rethink that.

 

[DallasEast]

Treehuggers!!!

'Treehuggers' are idolized conservationalists who do not want anyone to cut down (e.g. kill) trees. If that is a comparison, where is it that I state that no one should hunt period?

Keep looking.

I usually only eat venison in the winter because hunting season is in the fall and if I am able to shoot a deer it does not last an entire year. If I could eat venison all year I would.

So, you choose to kill deer and it's not a necessity. I knew that already. Cool.

Transplant the deer!? LOL. You ever get out of the city?

Have you noticed my avatar and my location listed beneath it? In northeastern Louisiana, we have one fair sized city. The rest are small towns and rural communities.

I don't live in that one fair-sized city.

However, I am an old country boy who has lived most of my life in the Sportsman's Paradise state. Until the age of ten, I hunted. Was (and still is) an excellent shot with a rifle and/or handgun. Killed deer, duck, squirrel, rabbit. If you name it and 'it' is native to Louisiana or Mississippi, I've probably killed it.

Yet, at the age of ten, I asked myself one question. "Why kill something which I do not need? There was a simple answer and that was that.

Look, I've gotten along with every hunter I've ever met; and I've met and spoken with many, many hunters in my time. I've known hunters who hunt only to feed themselves and others who hunt for sport. You obviously belong to the latter group. It's no big. Really.

Where are these "natural" predators to be found? Yuo are right about one thing, man is about the only natural predator of deer left (with a few exceptions of course). In my area man is THE only real predator.

:wink2:

Transplant the deer he says. LMAO!

It's expensive, very expensive and time-consuming, in fact, but doable. Transplanting animals is an old exercise, but I was only throwing that out for effect anyway. Everyone knows that hunters will never allow something like that to happen.

We can rebuild countries (Germany, Iraq, etc.), put men on the moon and outspend communism, but Bambi's gotta get wacked, right?

I know. I know. He's gotta die... disease... starvation... yada, yada, yada...

Treehuggers!!!

Hunters!!! Don't worry!!! I once was one!!! I un-der-stand!!! Really!!!

 

[Vtwin]

'Treehuggers' are idolized conservationalists who do not want anyone to cut down (e.g. kill) trees. If that is a comparison, where is it that I state that no one should hunt period?

Keep looking. So, you choose to kill deer and it's not a necessity. I knew that already. Cool. Have you noticed my avatar and my location listed beneath it? In northeastern Louisiana, we have one fair sized city. The rest are small towns and rural communities.

I don't live in that one fair-sized city.

However, I am an old country boy who has lived most of my life in the Sportsman's Paradise state. Until the age of ten, I hunted. Was (and still is) an excellent shot with a rifle and/or handgun. Killed deer, duck, squirrel, rabbit. If you name it and 'it' is native to Louisiana or Mississippi, I've probably killed it.

Yet, at the age of ten, I asked myself one question. "Why kill something which I do not need? There was a simple answer and that was that.

Look, I've gotten along with every hunter I've ever met; and I've met and spoken with many, many hunters in my time. I've known hunters who hunt only to feed themselves and others who hunt for sport. You obviously belong to the latter group. It's no big. Really. :wink2:It's expensive, very expensive and time-consuming, in fact, but doable. Transplanting animals is an old exercise, but I was only throwing that out for effect anyway. Everyone knows that hunters will never allow something like that to happen.

We can rebuild countries (Germany, Iraq, etc.), put men on the moon and outspend communism, but Bambi's gotta get wacked, right?

I know. I know. He's gotta die... disease... starvation... yada, yada, yada...

Hunters!!! Don't worry!!! I once was one!!! I un-der-stand!!! Really!!!

"Treehugger" has become slang to describe an individual who sets aside logic and reason for emotion when making descision about any sort of ecology related matter. Like you.

It is a necessity that I eat, correct? You may think that you are doing nature a service by choosing to buy your meat from the grocery case but rational indivduals realize that all that accomplishes is it keeps YOUR hands clean, an animal still died for your dinner. Some might call that HYPOCRITICAL. I am a meat hunter. I do not hunt for "sport". I have NO mounts of any kind hanginf from my walls.

So you haven't matured at all since you were ten huh? Most folks become more experienced, more educated and more thoughtful as they grow older. Not you huh? That's OK, really!


I would love to hear your reasonable and even doable plan to transplant a herd threatened by overpopulation to another area that could support the transplanted animals. Without any kind of plan your words are pretty much just hot air.

I hate to kill anything. I do need to eat. I eat meat. Anyone who eats meat and does not own up, and take part in the responsibilty which that entails is less then human.

Enjoy your burger tonight.

 

[burmafrd]

Remember some years ago in the Everglades, I think it was, they had a herd of starving deer. SO a hunt was proposed to kill them. PETA and company got a judge to say no- since they would transplant the deer. From what I recall it was a total failure- like less then a dozen survived. The rest all starved to death. Typical of PETA types- all hot air and no results.