Rev. Al, Russell Simmons, PETA add their two cents on Vick...

[Alexander]

I agree and your right about the deer population and what the results would be if hunting were banned. Here in Texas they have programs where hunters can give the deer meat to an organization that is called Hunters for the Hungry.

That is a pretty good idea.

 

[Doomsday101]

That is a pretty good idea.

Myself I admit I'm a wimp when it comes to deer hunting I just can't do it, I have had a deer in my scope and just could not pull the trigger. However I have nothing against those who do and with a program like this it serves to help those in our community.

 

[jay cee]

Post of the thread, by far. The fact is that we as a society have collectively agreed that dogfighting is more atrocious than slaughtering cows, for whatever reason. I mean, you can make arguments to the contrary, and that might be a good argument. But the fact remains that the majority in US society feel this way.

The Majority once thought burning suspected witches at the stake was ok. The majority once thought slavery was ok. That does not make the majority right.

I know that those arguing with Superpunk must see his point, but they're only being obstinant. Whether you agree with it or not, his point is not that difficult to see.

 

[jay cee]

one is for human consumption, the other is for entertainment

it's a huge difference

What about hunting, it's for human entertainment.

 

[AbeBeta]

I'm amazed at some of the points of view here.

A few points:

Hunting is the way deer population is controlled. In many places there are more than enough deer. If they weren't hunted, then the deer would starve to death, clearly a worse fate.

I see the distinction made that it's ok to hunt, but not for sport, only for necessity. For most hunters I think it's a cross section of both. They eat the game that they hunt, but they also hunt in part for the thrill of the chase. That doesn't mean they want to be cruel to animals. The vast majority of hunters I know try to kill the animal in the quickest and humane way possible.

I doubt there are very many people who would literally starve to death, if they came up empty in their hunt, although there are a few. Yet, it is still meat they eat.

Hunting for meat can be cruel -- but when you compare the lives and deaths of animals that are hunted to those that are raised for meat on factory farms, it becomes obvious that hunted animals have the far better life and a death that is often more humane.

I don't understand it at all and would never hunt but i do think that most hunters aren't interested in being cruel to their prey.

 

[Doomsday101]

What about hunting, it's for human entertainment.

And it serves a humane reason as well. It keeps the herd population under control which leads to a healthier herd.

 

[5Stars]

I don't understand it at all and would never hunt but i do think that most hunters aren't interested in being cruel to their prey.

Unfortunetly, I was put into a position of the ultimate hunt and to be hunted!

I will never hunt animals after that!

 

[Crown Royal]

The Majority once thought burning suspected witches at the stake was ok. The majority once thought slavery was ok. That does not make the majority right.

I know that those arguing with Superpunk must see his point, but they're only being obstinant. Whether you agree with it or not, his point is not that difficult to see.

I wasn't trying to say that the majority made it OK. I was just trying to differentiate it as a matter of law.

 

[AbeBeta]

And it serves a humane reason as well. It keeps the herd population under control which leads to a healthier herd.

Of course, in some areas, they bring in animals to keep the population high.

Where I live a group brought in Canadian Geese to supplement the hunting population -- there weren't enough geese to allow for a hunting season before they did that. Of course, these Geese aren't native to the area and have totally screwed up much of the grazing land. Apparently they make babies a bit faster than the hunters can shoot them. Freaking disaster.

So hunters and the groups that they belong to do sometimes "goose" the populations to make the "population control" argument a bit stronger

 

[jay cee]

http://img259.*************/img259/5490/07192007cg6.jpg

Now that is really funny. I love it.

 

[5Stars]

Now that is really funny. I love it.

Damn! I did not see that! :laugh1:


bbgun can come up with some good stuff!

Sick-em...!! Woof, woof...

 

[burmafrd]

hunting deer provides meat that is eaten and keeps the deer population under control. Which is necessary since now there are virtually no other controls on the deer population= mountain lions, wolf packs, etc are all gone.

What positive comes from dog fighting?

Leaving out the sheer CRUELTY of what is DELIBERATELY done to the dogs.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Myself I admit I'm a wimp when it comes to deer hunting I just can't do it, I have had a deer in my scope and just could not pull the trigger. However I have nothing against those who do and with a program like this it serves to help those in our community.

I could do it. I could pull the trigger.

But why????

And as far as "hunting helps control the deer population, which spares deer from starving. . . ." Bunk.

That is just rationalization from trigger-happy "men" who believe paying hundreds for a lease and thousands for guns, amo and other equipment somehow makes them more manly . . . In truth you "sportsmen" on your treehouses and camoflage bunkers just make you look ridiculous in your morning mist outfits, your SUVs and them weapons that you can barely fire without bruising your shoulder.
Question: Gee, what did the poor deer do 500 years ago before the onset of hunting as "sport"? Did they overpopulate and die off . . . no that cannot be it cause they are not extinct.


And it goes without saying (except for Vick): Dog fighting is sadistic, unnecessary and illegal.

 

[AbeBeta]

hunting deer provides meat that is eaten and keeps the deer population under control. Which is necessary since now there are virtually no other controls on the deer population= mountain lions, wolf packs, etc are all gone

Why not just re-introduce wolves and mountain lions?

Oh yeah, then hunting would get far more dangerous.

 

[5Stars]

Why not just re-introduce wolves and mountain lions?

Oh yeah, then hunting would get far more dangerous.

I will eat anything that does not eat me first!


Do that?!!


You WILL live longer....

 

[BouncingCheese]

Originally Posted by burmafrd
I cannot find myself agreeing with PETA without wanting to truly hurl.
But their point about those who are cruel to animals being risks to others is borne out by studies on serial killers. Virtually every one of them were cruel to animals. In many cases what they did to animals as kids they did to people as adults.

This is the leap in faith I find crazy. Plenty of little boys have done something to an animal. It's called being a little boy. Many people are cruel to animals, to say someone who is cruel to animals has anything to do with psychotics is just plain wrong and over the top.

Micheal Vick, if found guilty should be punished okay. Just getting that out of the way because I know what's coming. It is a crime and if convicted he should be punished. But, Looking at some of the post as well as some of the other things I have read on this matter, let's just say it is eye opening.

He has NO Prior convictions, and In our judicial system they use it. They use it to give repeat offender's more time. They use it to give Good people who do stupid things and get caught up Probabtion. Some people with the Blood lust for Vick's head may not like it but that is what it is.

And yes, I know it is popular to say the whole (Gagging) animals are people too stuff is the new elightened badge of honor but Yes, like it or not, fact is we are talking about DOGS here. People get less for killing humans under the right circumstances. Again Dog fighting is stupid, It is cruel and personally I think the dude needs to get over the whole culture and everyting attached to it. But it is what it is. It goes on Nationwide and People get caught and do not spend jail time, they do not loose their jobs. They loose their animals and pay fines.

Just because Vick can afford it and would not Die and Go away like many would like Does not change anything. The punishment should fit the crime.

Rats are animals-killed with impunity
alligators are animals- Killed for shoes
Seals are animals-killed for vanity
Minks are animals- killed So wealthy men can have sex
Chimpanzees are animals- killed to satisfy mans curiosity about everything form asprin ingestion to nuclear exposure

On and On ...

I disagree with P.E.T.A but I can at least respect them. They are outraged about all animal cruelty. The newfound Dog lovers I find hyporcritical.

As an aside I want to see some of the takes the next time a kid is mauled to death by one of these Gentle, Loving, Wise, Magestic creatures, for no other reason than the kid was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I love my dog but I realize that it is an animal.

I don't agree with everything in this post but it IS great.

Interesting.

 

[DallasEast]

So buying a steak that came from a steer that went through the meat packing process is OK but making a clean kill on a deer that will be cut up and eaten during the winter is not? This is delusional at best.That meat you buy all nicely wrapped in the case at the grocery store used to have a face you know. Chances are it's "life" was much less "fulfilling" and came to a more painful and tragic end then the deer in my freezer did.Oh, Vick is a scumbag who should cut up and fed to the dogs.

Hunters.

My answer to your question is two-fold: No, IF the meat in your daily food consumption diet consists only of deer meat--for which I doubt since you mentioned when you would eat the deer meat (e.g. in winter). Yes, IF the meat in your diet is not solely restricted to the deer meat which you have hunted, but also extends to what you willingly buy for substance.

Killing for survival and killing for sport are two different things.

No argument here.The poster I was responding to was saying something different though.He said that hunting was wrong if one could easily BUY their meat instead.That is delusional as the animal which supplied the boughten meat most likely "suffered" much more then the "wild" animal I shot for my meat.Another relevant point that I did not attempt to make is that in many areas and for many game animals hunting is the only viable natural managment system now that there is less range and far less natural predators. Seeing deer starving through a winter because there is to many for the ranges is not a pretty sightI have no respect for "trophy" hunters.

Hunters.

Question: Why not transplant 'starving' deer to another area where food is plentiful AND where their natural predators are also more plentiful AND will help control their population?

Scratch that. I forgot. The number one predator of deer is Man. Cool.

 

[DallasEast]

Why not just re-introduce wolves and mountain lions?

Oh yeah, then hunting would get far more dangerous.

Note to self: read entire thread first before commenting because someone else may have already stated the obvious later in the thread.

Good post, by the way.

 

[cowboyed]

Originally Posted by superpunk
I like dogs, and I think puppies are adorable, yada yada yada...

but do you find it odd that we are outraged that someone could do this to animals we consider pets - but we don't care what people do to our food before we get that hamburger or veal? I realize the difference between entertainment and food - but it's cruel either way, and both are techncally unecessary.

I mean, technically, isn't horse racing pretty cruel in the name of entertainment? Circuses? I don't know. I can see where people would say "it's just a dog". Why do we determine that it is fine for us to dominate one kind of animal but live in partnership with another?

I think if people really think on that for a while, they can acknowledge that the line is at least a little blurry.
************************************************************************************
I can make obtuse comparatives too. But do we pit two hamburgers against each other for sick jollies and profit. I am not a big fan of hunting either but at least hunters don't go around trailing a deer and shooting it to make it suffer. Some hunt to eat as well and even if it is for sport it has a beneficial effect in some instances such as thinning out overpopulated areas. Hunters also don't go around slamming deer to the ground, electrocuting them or engaging in rape breeding.

We exploit animals for work, consumption and sport but that doesn't even come close to manipulating dogs to fight to the death week after week.

 

[Doomsday101]

I could do it. I could pull the trigger.

But why????

And as far as "hunting helps control the deer population, which spares deer from starving. . . ." Bunk.

That is just rationalization from trigger-happy "men" who believe paying hundreds for a lease and thousands for guns, amo and other equipment somehow makes them more manly . . . In truth you "sportsmen" on your treehouses and camoflage bunkers just make you look ridiculous in your morning mist outfits, your SUVs and them weapons that you can barely fire without bruising your shoulder.
Question: Gee, what did the poor deer do 500 years ago before the onset of hunting as "sport"? Did they overpopulate and die off . . . no that cannot be it cause they are not extinct.


And it goes without saying (except for Vick): Dog fighting is sadistic, unnecessary and illegal.

There is nothing bunk about it, if your reason is to justify dog fighting and treat hunting in the same light your just way off the mark. In Cal. alone the deer population is est. at over 30 million and in places like Texas it is about the same. Over population of the herd leads to starvation and disease