Review of DEs on the current roster

thunderpimp91

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There is no talent at DE currently on this roster. You keep talking like we are the Jaguars with no hope to win the division when that's far from the case. I don't like to say this often, but Jerry is right. You don't rebuild with a very expensive QB approaching the end of his career. We follow you're plan and the D will be rebuilt in 2 years right in time to start looking for a new franchise QB. That will work out just great.....

And there were plenty of options in FA that would have helped without hurting the cap or long term development. I didn't want to sign Allen or keep Ware at his price, but we could have done something other than Mincey to improve the DE spot. But god forbid we stop the development of Ceaser Rayford or Martez Wilson. That would just be a tragedy. Now Jerry backed himself into a corner of having to take a DE in the 1st which I would bet a lot of $ he's going to do.

If not Allen or Ware who was going to come in and make a huge impact on this team? Phillips/Ayers etc. were not going to be the difference in making postseason or not. You have some guys who you can work with on the roster now, and I guarantee you see a pass rush threat brought in either round 1,2, or both of the draft. I agree this team can compete for the division this year, but just bringing in mediocre free agents wont get us there. This team has to roll the dice on some young guys, and hope they hit on one or two.
 

Vinnie2u

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I bet Jerry spends 4 picks on the DL and heavily invests on UDFA's.. We need talent and youth..
 

theSHOW

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Does Mincey count $12.25M against this years cap and $17M next year?

You guys are unbelievable.


No but this entire group of ten defensive linemen ( Henry Melton + Jeremy Mincey + Terrell McClain + Tyrone Crawford + George Selvie + Nick Hayden + Martez Wilson + Frank Kearse + Caesar Rayford + Tristan Okpalaugo) count as salary of 8.57 mil That's a savings of approx. 3.68 mil just this 2014 season. 10 players!

Interesting note is we have 10 linemen under contract of the total 61 players under contract for 2014. Add in about 12 rookies and another 3 fas and we will have about 76 players under contract for the start of next season.
 

theSHOW

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I am sorry if you cant judge talent...................you can pretend we are stocked with probowlers if that is what gets you off.

I just think you are clueless when you feel that after last seasons couch potato bunch we should go to Doomsday 2014. Do you not understand the cap implications and how we have become deep across the line, no Pro Bowlers but no cap behemoths that do nothing like DWare. This line will already outperform 2013s line. And that is if we draft nobody on defense.
 

xwalker

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That reads as if the Cowboys are altogether avoiding stopgap solutions, thus somehow building the right way. I think the issue most people have is the quality of the stopgap. It's a tough sell to convince people that Jeremy Mincey -- a 30 year old backup DE who played in grand total of 10 total games last year -- is anything more than a stopgap. Especially when we could have had the player that played ahead of Mincey in the rotation for most of last season -- Robert Ayers -- for near identical money. When you combine this with the realization that Ayers is 2 years younger than Mincey and has performed better in recent memory then this becomes even more frustrating.

Even if the Cowboys felt Mincey was the superior player, there was no need to sign him as early as we did in free agency. They signed a 3rd or 4th tier free agent in the first wave of free agency. It's very likely he would still be on his couch right now had we not caught eager beaver syndrome. Shaun Phillips is a for more accomplished player with similar size and age concerns, and he just signed with a team last week.

The Cowboys obviously researched players in the off-season and targeted Mincey and McClain for a reason considering that they signed them immediately. Marinelli might not the be miracle worker that some make him out to be, but I'm sure that he spent significant time watching film of free agents. The fact that they signed them immediately indicates that he probably really liked them as opposed to player that the might have signed later just because they are cheap.

The basic idea this season should be to have enough veterans to have a reasonable lineup, but not to have too many stopgaps taking up roster spots or having a highly paid older player that they are not going to want to bench if some of the younger players step up. Selive and Mincey have shown to be legitimate NFL players, just not Stars. No body is going to have any issue if they are replaced as starters by a young player; whereas, if they had kept Ware, there would have been an expectation for him to start and play as majority of the snaps as the Weak Side DE.

People wonder why the Cowboys continue to go 8-8, but then are resistant when they make moves to get out of that rut. Keeping Ware or adding Mincey AND Shaun Phillips or Ayers would just be moves that most likely result in 8-8 and actually take away from the quality of the roster that they can field in 2015. By this time next year, they will have given more young players a chance to develop AND have much more cap space available than they would if they had kept Ware or made similar moves.

I'm seeing so many fans that hate Jerry, but then want to repeat the same things that he's done in the past. It's the "we must have these players" mentality. The Cowboys just had to have Spencer last year and franchised him which also forced them to restructure Ratliff''s contract in the spring which basically guaranteed it.
 

xwalker

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Ahh yes, the famous cult of Marinelli. Who did he develop on Chicago that wasnt Henry Melton? What did he do in Detroit?

It has little to do with Rod and all about style of play, I see with you it's the famous cult of no comprehension. there is a lot of that going around here.

Chicago had a top 5 defense when Marinelli was there. He was Lovie Smith's top choice to be his D-Coordinator when Lovie got a new Head Coaching job. I've never heard any body that knows anything about football question Marinelli's credentials as a D-Coordintor. He obviously did do well as a head coach, but that's happened to plenty of top coordinators. Many of them like the late Jim Johnson new not to even try being an HC. Gregg Williams didn't have much success as a Head Coach, but Sean Payton took a pay cut to get the Saints owner to hire Williams.
 

theSHOW

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The Cowboys obviously researched players in the off-season and targeted Mincey and McClain for a reason considering that they signed them immediately. Marinelli might not the be miracle worker that some make him out to be, but I'm sure that he spent significant time watching film of free agents. The fact that they signed them immediately indicates that he probably really liked them as opposed to player that the might have signed later just because they are cheap.

The basic idea this season should be to have enough veterans to have a reasonable lineup, but not to have too many stopgaps taking up roster spots or having a highly paid older player that they are not going to want to bench if some of the younger players step up. Selive and Mincey have shown to be legitimate NFL players, just not Stars. No body is going to have any issue if they are replaced as starters by a young player; whereas, if they had kept Ware, there would have been an expectation for him to start and play as majority of the snaps as the Weak Side DE.

People wonder why the Cowboys continue to go 8-8, but then are resistant when they make moves to get out of that rut. Keeping Ware or adding Mincey AND Shaun Phillips or Ayers would just be moves that most likely result in 8-8 and actually take away from the quality of the roster that they can field in 2015. By this time next year, they will have given more young players a chance to develop AND have much more cap space available than they would if they had kept Ware or made similar moves.

I'm seeing so many fans that hate Jerry, but then want to repeat the same things that he's done in the past. It's the "we must have these players" mentality. The Cowboys just had to have Spencer last year and franchised him which also forced them to restructure Ratliff''s contract in the spring which basically guaranteed it.

well said.
 

xwalker

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And there were plenty of options in FA that would have helped without hurting the cap or long term development.
What options? Would Ayers or Shaun Phillips have been a big upgrade over Mincey?

The Cowboys had all off-season to review film of upcoming free agents. They specifically targeted Mincey and McClain. They didn't just wait and sign some leftover free agents because they were cheap. They obviously wanted these specific players. As I said in another post, Marinelli is not a miracle worker like some people might believe, but he knows exactly the type of players that he wants. He obviously liked these 2 players and had plenty of time to review and discuss them.

The Cowboys either had to sign or keep really expensive players or they had to sign players to reasonable contracts and try to develop replacements through the draft and possibly with some young players already on the roster.
 

tm1119

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What options? Would Ayers or Shaun Phillips have been a big upgrade over Mincey?

The Cowboys had all off-season to review film of upcoming free agents. They specifically targeted Mincey and McClain. They didn't just wait and sign some leftover free agents because they were cheap. They obviously wanted these specific players. As I said in another post, Marinelli is not a miracle worker like some people might believe, but he knows exactly the type of players that he wants. He obviously liked these 2 players and had plenty of time to review and discuss them.

The Cowboys either had to sign or keep really expensive players or they had to sign players to reasonable contracts and try to develop replacements through the draft and possibly with some young players already on the roster.

Mincey had 1 good year in his career and that was 2011. So yes, both Phillips and Ayers would have been upgrades. And for more or less the same contract. Corey Wootton would have been a good cheap SDE option. Plus the cowboys had more than enough room to sign 1 of those 3 even after signing Mincey.

And as far as the roster.....you keep counting Crawford as a DE only and I don't think that's the the case. They are in all likelihood going to keep 9 d lineman. 4 DE's, 4 DT's + Crawford as a swing between both. Which means we only have 2 worthy DE's out 4 on the roster right now. And no, I'm not accepting that a guy who spent the last 5 years in the area league or way too small Martez Wilson is going to be 1 of the remaining 2.
 

Star Guard_31

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Does Mincey count $12.25M against this years cap and $17M next year?

You guys are unbelievable.

I have no problem with Ware's release, I have a problem with inconsistent logic. If an over the hill DE on the decline is inhibiting the development of younger players then we shouldn't replace him with another over the hill DE simply because he is less expensive.
 

AmishCowboy

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What options? Would Ayers or Shaun Phillips have been a big upgrade over Mincey?

The Cowboys had all off-season to review film of upcoming free agents. They specifically targeted Mincey and McClain. They didn't just wait and sign some leftover free agents because they were cheap. They obviously wanted these specific players. As I said in another post, Marinelli is not a miracle worker like some people might believe, but he knows exactly the type of players that he wants. He obviously liked these 2 players and had plenty of time to review and discuss them.

The Cowboys either had to sign or keep really expensive players or they had to sign players to reasonable contracts and try to develop replacements through the draft and possibly with some young players already on the roster.

OK, but why the interest in keeping Spencer/
 

TrailBlazer

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I think Dallas could have a decent DLine if..

If we can add a DE in the early rounds.

Find 2 new starters along the front seven

And avoid injuries.

If Crawford is as good as some seem to believe he is.

If spencer comes back and is effective
 

TrailBlazer

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I agree. They shouldn't force a pick this year. They have way to many holes to fill. Just get the best possible players. Hopefully, they sort things out this season and in next years draft and free agency they can consider being more specific in filling needs because there won't be as many.

Any analysis on spencer?
Would he fit as the WDE? Or is he better suited as a 3-4 OLB?
 

thunderpimp91

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I think Dallas could have a decent DLine if..

If we can add a DE in the early rounds.

Find 2 new starters along the front seven

And avoid injuries.

If Crawford is as good as some seem to believe he is.

If spencer comes back and is effective

If all that happens you have a top 5 defense in the league.
 

MichaelWinicki

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Any analysis on spencer?
Would he fit as the WDE? Or is he better suited as a 3-4 OLB?

That's a good question. My first impression is to use him (provided he has anything left in the tank) as the strong-side DE just as the Cowboys were going to do last year. However he could be both their best pass-rushed DE and their best run-stopping DE.

Of course he's played virtually all his career as a 3-4 OLB, but he did play 4-3 DE in college. I personally think he can make the transition to 4-3 DE without much of a problem.

Bottom line of course is his health.

If his knee isn't up to it, then all of this is moot point.
 

thunderpimp91

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That's a good question. My first impression is to use him (provided he has anything left in the tank) as the strong-side DE just as the Cowboys were going to do last year. However he could be both their best pass-rushed DE and their best run-stopping DE.

Of course he's played virtually all his career as a 3-4 OLB, but he did play 4-3 DE in college. I personally think he can make the transition to 4-3 DE without much of a problem.

Bottom line of course is his health.

If his knee isn't up to it, then all of this is moot point.

ditto
It all comes down to health for Spencer. If hes healthy hes the best DE on our roster. That's a very big if though.
 

Beast_from_East

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I just think you are clueless when you feel that after last seasons couch potato bunch we should go to Doomsday 2014. Do you not understand the cap implications and how we have become deep across the line, no Pro Bowlers but no cap behemoths that do nothing like DWare. This line will already outperform 2013s line. And that is if we draft nobody on defense.

If that is what you tell yourself so you can sleep at night, fine by me.


And Selvie career high in sacks is the same as Ware's career low in sacks, just keep that in mind.
 

theSHOW

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If that is what you tell yourself so you can sleep at night, fine by me.


And Selvie career high in sacks is the same as Ware's career low in sacks, just keep that in mind.

turn on the brain. Selvie outsacked Ware in his only season here 7-6
 
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