Review of DEs on the current roster

[1LoyalCowboyFan]

Did I really see someone that weighs 230 on that list?

That was a bit shocking. Hopefully he can continue to gain some mass this offseason

 

[xwalker]

Any analysis on spencer?
Would he fit as the WDE? Or is he better suited as a 3-4 OLB?

If healthy, he should be fine at WDE; however, if he fully recovers and is a free agent in 2015, I think 3-4 teams would put a higher value on him. It's not because he can't play well as a 4-3 WDE, but because he has the ability to play the SOLB position in a 3-4 which is a very difficult position to play. You need a 3-tool player that can cover, play the run and rush the passer. That's harder to find than a 4-3 WDE.

As far as 2014 is concerned, I wouldn't waste time on Spencer. There is a high probability that he can't make it though the season after the micro-fracture surgery and even at a veterans minimum salary, that's about 800k wasted if he goes on IR. If he does recover, then he's probably not going to be here next year anyway.

 

[xwalker]

OK, but why the interest in keeping Spencer/

My best guess is that they like the idea of Spencer as an emergency plan similar to Brian Waters last year. If Spencer is not ready by training camp, then he could end up on the sofa for game 1. Then if he gets healthy, they could sign him like they did with Waters if they don't find better options in training camp.

 

[Beast_from_East]

turn on the brain. Selvie outsacked Ware in his only season here 7-6

What part of career high and career low do you not understand?

Selvie had a career high of 7 sacks and Ware had a career low of 6 sacks.......................Selive can also visit Ware's bust in Canton in the coming years. Ware may not be what he once was, but please save me the "Selvie is just as good" speech.

Only way Selvie will ever be in the HOF is if he buys a ticket and takes a tour.

 

[theSHOW]

What part of career high and career low do you not understand?

Selvie had a career high of 7 sacks and Ware had a career low of 6 sacks.......................Selive can also visit Ware's bust in Canton in the coming years. Ware may not be what he once was, but please save me the "Selvie is just as good" speech.

Only way Selvie will ever be in the HOF is if he buys a ticket and takes a tour.

Selvie made the team this year. Ware is cut because he does nothing. Past performance 2011 and before doesn't count. I give you a D on reading comprehension.

 

[dogunwo]

I think the group as a whole will look much better this season as Rod will cut them loose like he did the last game. Monty had the DL reading waaaay to much in a old school attempt to bend but not break. Plus the mass confusion didn't help either. I would like to add one early round pick to the DL and one to the OL and I will come out of this draft a happy camper(if there is such a thing).

I really think we would look at a guy like Brandon Thomas in the second round. No homer.

 

[Beast_from_East]

Selvie made the team this year. Ware is cut because he does nothing. Past performance 2011 and before doesn't count. I give you a D on reading comprehension.

You give you an F on understanding the game...............Ware was cut do to his enormous salary he was given by putting up double digit sacks year in and year out.

Selvie has a career year of an amazing 7 sacks, only 1 more sack than the guy you said did nothing.................LMAO

 

[xwalker]

Mincey had 1 good year in his career and that was 2011. So yes, both Phillips and Ayers would have been upgrades. And for more or less the same contract. Corey Wootton would have been a good cheap SDE option. Plus the cowboys had more than enough room to sign 1 of those 3 even after signing Mincey.

And as far as the roster.....you keep counting Crawford as a DE only and I don't think that's the the case. They are in all likelihood going to keep 9 d lineman. 4 DE's, 4 DT's + Crawford as a swing between both. Which means we only have 2 worthy DE's out 4 on the roster right now. And no, I'm not accepting that a guy who spent the last 5 years in the area league or way too small Martez Wilson is going to be 1 of the remaining 2.

OK, so they have 2 DEs and are going to keep 4 DEs and 4 DTs plus Crawford. Now you have:

DE:
Mincey
Selvie
Early draft pick
1 spot between a late round pick, UDFAs and all other DEs currently on the roster

If they sign 1 more player like Ayers, then they leave themselves Zero spots to develop a current player or late round pick.

How do you ever develop a player operating in this method? It means that you can only add talent with early draft picks. The Jay Ratliff, Leon Lett, Brock Marion, Devonte Holloman, Miles Austin, etc. type players never make the roster under your plan.

 

[theSHOW]

OK, so they have 2 DEs and are going to keep 4 DEs and 4 DTs plus Crawford. Now you have:

DE:
Mincey
Selvie
Early draft pick
1 spot between a late round pick, UDFAs and all other DEs currently on the roster

If they sign 1 more player like Ayers, then they leave themselves Zero spots to develop a current player or late round pick.

How do you ever develop a player operating in this method? It means that you can only add talent with early draft picks. The Jay Ratliff, Leon Lett, Brock Marion, Devonte Holloman, Miles Austin, etc. type players never make the roster under your plan.

Giants just signed Ayers last week

 

[TrailBlazer]

If all that happens you have a top 5 defense in the league.

I'd settle for middle of the pack.

But I admire your optimism.
Just don't think it's realistic; especially coming off that historically bad defensive performance in'13. I don't see the talent. Need to hit a home run in the draft. Build for 2016, 2017.

 

[xwalker]

Giants just signed Ayers last week

Yes, I was just giving a what if example. I knew that somebody has signed him.

 

[silver]

We need fresh meat at the position. It's a young men's game. They need to address the position early and often. Any position along the front seven can be upgraded. So hopefully most of the draftees go to the front seven. Of the holdovers, barring injuries, Lee, Carter, Holloman & Wilber are locks at LB, with only Crawford is a lock on the DL. Just the way we ran through 20 guys last year along the DL, I can make a case for any of the linemen currently on the roster being replaceable, and that's including Selvie, Mincey and McClain.

 

[tm1119]

OK, so they have 2 DEs and are going to keep 4 DEs and 4 DTs plus Crawford. Now you have:

DE:
Mincey
Selvie
Early draft pick
1 spot between a late round pick, UDFAs and all other DEs currently on the roster

If they sign 1 more player like Ayers, then they leave themselves Zero spots to develop a current player or late round pick.

How do you ever develop a player operating in this method? It means that you can only add talent with early draft picks. The Jay Ratliff, Leon Lett, Brock Marion, Devonte Holloman, Miles Austin, etc. type players never make the roster under your plan.

I'm trying to win in 2014 because it could easily be 1 of only 2 or 3 years left of the Romo era to win. After that its down the long road of finding a franchise QB.

You seem very willing to punt the season by fielding another horrific defense like last year.

 

[xwalker]

I have no problem with Ware's release, I have a problem with inconsistent logic. If an over the hill DE on the decline is inhibiting the development of younger players then we shouldn't replace him with another over the hill DE simply because he is less expensive.

If a young player out performs Mincey, they will make him a starter without thinking twice about it. If a young player was outperforming Ware, they would not bench Ware.

They have to have some reliable veterans on the roster. They can't implement a defense with a DLine of all rookies.

They just have 2 true veterans at DE with Mincey and Selvie. That leaves 2 to 3 spots for draft picks and young players that are already on the roster. I think that about the correct mix.

The logic goes bad when people want to sign more veteran DEs. That would not leave any much room for developing young players.

 

[xwalker]

I'm trying to win in 2014 because it could easily be 1 of only 2 or 3 years left of the Romo era to win. After that its down the long road of finding a franchise QB.

You seem very willing to punt the season by fielding another horrific defense like last year.

They shouldn't give up just because they haven't signed expensive free agent DLinemen or because they didn't draft DL at each pick in the top 3 rounds.

If there were internet message boards back in April or even July of 1992, people would have been freaking out because the Cowboys didn't have enough proven players at each position.
Similar status to Melton and an early draft pick:
67 Russell Maryland DT
94 Charles Haley DE

These guys would have been similar to Mincey and Selive
75 Tony Casillas DT - The equivalent of a street free agent that was cut by previous team
77 Jim Jeffcoat DE - over the hill veteran

All of these guys would have been called Jags on a message board:
95 Chad Hennings DT/DE
90 Tony Hill DE
97 Jimmie Jones DT
78 Leon Lett DT/DE
92 Tony Tolbert DE


What if you had the following options:

Option 1.
2014: 20% chance of being a playoff team
2015: 25% chance of being a playoff team

Option 2.
2014: 10% chance of being a playoff team
2015: 50% chance of being a playoff team.


Notice to other posters: This is just a theoretical question. The don't focus on the exact numbers, just the concept.

 

[tm1119]

They shouldn't give up just because they haven't signed expensive free agent DLinemen or because they didn't draft DL at each pick in the top 3 rounds.

If there were internet message boards back in April or even July of 1992, people would have been freaking out because the Cowboys didn't have enough proven players at each position.
Similar status to Melton and an early draft pick:
67 Russell Maryland DT
94 Charles Haley DE

These guys would have been similar to Mincey and Selive
75 Tony Casillas DT - The equivalent of a street free agent that was cut by previous team
77 Jim Jeffcoat DE - over the hill veteran

All of these guys would have been called Jags on a message board:
95 Chad Hennings DT/DE
90 Tony Hill DE
97 Jimmie Jones DT
78 Leon Lett DT/DE
92 Tony Tolbert DE


What if you had the following options:

Option 1.
2014: 20% chance of being a playoff team
2015: 25% chance of being a playoff team

Option 2.
2014: 10% chance of being a playoff team
2015: 50% chance of being a playoff team.


Notice to other posters: This is just a theoretical question. The don't focus on the exact numbers, just the concept.

Yeah because an early draft pick is really going to be comparable to should be hall of famer Charles freaking Haley. If we had a Charles Haley esque player to go along with Melton no one would be complaining.

And you can't predict the future. No one knows what will happen. You seem to be trying to go with the mlb/nba version of you have to get worse before you get better rebuild. It's the nfl and its a win now league. Too many injury risks and too many things to go wrong to look into the future. Romo is here and making 20 mil a season for these next 3 years or so, can't squander any opportunities. Remember the dark ages of trying to find a QB before Romo came along?

 

[Nirvana]

Martez Wilson sucks and won't be on the final 53. In fact the only guys who will make it on that list are Selvie, Crawford, Mincey and Bass. Tristan Okpalaugo is an interesting prospect though and I'll be interested to see how he does. Thanks for the list by the way.

I think Spencer could come back and with a very favorable 1 year contract. He's at Valley Ranch every day rehabbing. Who knows maybe he could make some contributions at WDE.

As far as the draft goes I hope the team picks up a guy like Ford or Demarcus Lawrence to rotate at WDE.

SDE - Crawford, Spencer*, Mincey, Bass
DT 1 - McClain, Hayden/Draft Pick
DT 3 - Melton, Draft Pick, (Crawford/Bass in nickel)
WDE - Selvie, Spencer*, Mincey, Draft Pick

 

[theSHOW]

Yeah because an early draft pick is really going to be comparable to should be hall of famer Charles freaking Haley. If we had a Charles Haley esque player to go along with Melton no one would be complaining.

And you can't predict the future. No one knows what will happen. You seem to be trying to go with the mlb/nba version of you have to get worse before you get better rebuild. It's the nfl and its a win now league. Too many injury risks and too many things to go wrong to look into the future. Romo is here and making 20 mil a season for these next 3 years or so, can't squander any opportunities. Remember the dark ages of trying to find a QB before Romo came along?

Remember when you could sign a Charles Haley and the team would always have enough cap room?

 

[tm1119]

Remember when you could sign a Charles Haley and the team would always have enough cap room?

Yeah...good times. But that has nothing to do with my post. I didn't say we should/could have signed a Charles Haley esque player. My post was in response to xwalker saying the 2014 d line is comparable to 92's and us taking a DE early in this draft + Melton would be = to Russell Maryland and Charles Haley. Which is an absolutely ludicrous statement.

 

[reddyuta]

It seems that they have a lot of DEs that project to the Strong Side. It would be good if the draft pick could be a super quick type player even if he's a bit on the smaller side.

To me, a guy like Ealy seems to be similar to guys they already have on the roster (i.e a bigger guy with length, but not as quick as some other the other DEs in the draft).

Good point,I think they would consider someone like Dee Ford in the first.