Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Manning?

[Chocolate Lab]

Percy vs. KJJ is like LA vs. Jose Cortez.

 

[KJJ]

Percy vs. KJJ is like LA vs. Jose Cortez.

Percy ended up like Marvis Frazier vs. Mike Tyson attempting to lump Roethlisberger and Phil Simms in with Brad Johnson, Jim McMahon, and Trent Dilfer.

That tells me everything I need to know about his insight into the game. :laugh2:

 

[KJJ]

The way they played in the regular season yes. The way the ended the season at Minnesota...NO, NO and NO. You already don't think highly of Favre and he put up 4 TDs on us.

Romo turned the ball over 3 times against Minn. The previous 7 games he only had 2 turnovers. History has shown that when he has 3-plus turnovers in a game it usually leads to a debacle.

As for Favre I don't think highly of him and the following week against NO in NFC title game is exactly why.

He's had a bunch of clutch games during the regular season but in the playoffs it's been a different story.

The Packers will win more SB's with Rodgers than they did with Favre.

This is relevant to the Minnesota game how?

It's relevant because prior to Romo's 3 turnovers against Minnesota the Cowboys may have been playing the best football of any team in the NFL when he was playing at a high level.

There wasn't a hotter team entering the playoffs than the Cowboys in 09. It all came crashing down when Romo started turning the ball over and couldn't make plays when facing adversity.

I have yet to see a turnover that was beneficial. Unlinke Ben Rs "clutch" fumble for a TD against B-More two weeks ago or Ben Rs two INTs last week.

Roethlisberger is able to overcome his mistakes with clutch plays when games are on the line.

Some of his turnovers are a result of his OL that can't protect him. You think fumbled fingered Tony could have success behind that Steeler OL? Get real! LOL

Hilarious. Not sure what the point is though. In yardage they were 25th. In points allowed they were 13th. LOL at stats don't mean jack until you want to use them to make a point. Haha LOL consistency try it one day.

The Saints scoring D ranked 20th in 09 giving up 21.3 points a game. They gave up 341 points for the season.

The Cowboys ranked 2nd giving up 15.6 points a game and only gave up 250 points for the season. The Jets who ranked #1 only gave up 14 points fewer than the Cowboys.

This shoots all kinds of holes in the claims being made that Romo never has good defenses.

His defense falters when he falters by turning the ball over multiple times.

These stats mean something just like all the other stats I've posted but you just want to spin things in an attempt to constantly defend Romo and bash Roethlisberger.

Anyone with a clue can see your agenda.

You said ALL his turnovers were putting the defense in the "hole" There were 9 seconds remaining when he committed his first turnover of the game and Dallas was already losing at that point. We had less points than the Giants at that point...OUR defense had put Romo in the HOLE evidently because Romo had zero turnovers up until then...:laugh2:

I never said ALL his turnovers put the team in a hole but some have. The Cowboys had a chance to win in the final minute against the Giants in the 07 playoffs and Romo got picked in the endzone.

If that had been Roethlisberger in that same exact situation last Sunday you would be ripping into him. It's all part of your agenda.

Romo wasn't consistent the entire day against the Giants. He only completed 50% of his passes that day which was well below his 64.4 season average.

While he was struggling Eli was sharp so go ahead and tear into him now. LOL

I will send Romo a memo to stink up the game from the beginning so he can come back to save the day at the end. Kind of like he did in the B-More game, but maybe he will get lucky and the defense won't screw up his clutchness. Another example of you agenda pushing. He did EXPERIENCE adversity...did do enough to come back and win but the DEFENSE screwed it all up. Again try some consistency, it will do you a world of good.

Just keep apologizing for him it's really enhancing your case. :laugh2:

Again truth problem on your end. I never said it did not have an effect. You said his turnovers were putting the defense in the hole and that is why Dallas can't win. As I already mentioned they were ALREADY losing...his turnover did not put the defense in a hole. DO YOU REALLY NOT COMPREHEND THAT OR ARE YOU JUST BEING DIFFICULT???

Again I never said ALL his turnovers put the defense in a hole but anytime your QB turns the ball over you miss an opportunity on offense and it puts your defense on the field.

Some of Romo's turnovers have been VERY damaging like the fumble that was returned 96 yards for a TD in the season finale against Philly in 08 and the pick 6 late in the Steeler game a few weeks earlier.

All you're doing is twisting everything I say to try and fit your agenda. You're just wasting time.

Anyone who argues Romo is a better QB than one who's won 10 playoff games and is heading to his 3rd SB in 7 years doesn't have a clue!

I am talking about our QB not our field goal holder and again...his fumble did not put the Dallas defense in a "hole". We were already losing and it was at the very end of the game. Looks like our defense had put Romo in a hole.

holding for FG's was part of his job and he did it well all season until a playoff game was on the line. That fumbled snap put the team in a hole and helped cost us a playoff game.

You should be the President of the Romo apologist fan club. LOL

First of all, I am convinced you are Ben Rs lawyer. Fortunately we are not in a court of law because you would be charged with perjury.

I'd love to see you in a courtroom trying to convince a jury that Romo who's won only ONE playoff game is a better QB than Roethlisberger who's won 10 playoff games including 2 SB's and is about to play for his 3rd championship in only 7 years.

You'd have a better chance of convincing a jury that Charles Manson isn't a threat to society. :laugh2: I got news for you if I was a lawyer you'd want me on your side. :toast:

Percy has already schooled you. Percy's typos have more credibility than your best thought out post to date. So you talking about credibility...well you have none.

Yeah Percy really schooled me on how Roethlisberger and Phill Simms were carried by their defenses to championships just like McMahon, Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer. LOL

He should have his teaching license revoked!

Another problem with the Truth KJJ. Never said Ben R was killing the Steelers. I did say I wish Romo had a defense like Ben Rs to bail him out like Ben R has when he is not up to par.

You keep making it sound like Roethlisberger's not that good and has to be carried by his defense. You seem to scoff everytime he makes a great clutch play crediting the players around him for his success.

You're doing the complete opposite with Romo. You have such a Cowboy bias it's hilarious! :laugh2:

Any of the football people on ESPN or NFLN would roll their eyes to some of the comments made by you, Percy, Catch and a few others. LOL

 

[gbrittain]

KJJ...I think I need to stop now. I hope we are both just Cowboy fans that want the best for the team.

Either I suck at communicating or you are taking nearly everything I say wrong.

I have already said Ben R is HOFer. The ONLY REASON I have pointed out his fumbles, bad games, and etcetera is too illustrate that when that happens he has a much better chance of recovering because he has a superior D and no doubt better coaching. He has clearly made such clutch plays and kudos to him.

I do believe IMO that Romo has made some clutch plays too, but his defense has not quite returned the favor as much. I also believe that in order to win a Super Bowl we have to get better at some positions but QB is not a position of need. Nothing more...nothing less.

It appears to be getting personal and that is not where I want this to go.

Peace Out.

 

[KJJ]

KJJ...I think I need to stop now. I hope we are both just Cowboy fans that want the best for the team.

Either I suck at communicating or you are taking nearly everything I say wrong.

I have already said Ben R is HOFer. The ONLY REASON I have pointed out his fumbles, bad games, and etcetera is too illustrate that when that happens he has a much better chance of recovering because he has a superior D and no doubt better coaching. He has clearly made such clutch plays and kudos to him.

I do believe IMO that Romo has made some clutch plays too, but his defense has not quite returned the favor as much. I also believe that in order to win a Super Bowl we have to get better at some positions but QB is not a position of need. Nothing more...nothing less.

It appears to be getting personal and that is not where I want this to go.

Peace Out.

I'm just responding to your drivel. I don't take football discussions personal we're just passionate fans giving our opinion.

What any of us think isn't going to change anything.

It's frustrating right now with the SB all set wishing our QB could make the plays Rodgers and Roethlisberger made to get their teams to the dance.

You give the impression you don't like Roethlisberger as a QB or maybe it's him as a person you have issues with. I wouldn't blame you for that we all have issues with him there but I'm judging him as a QB.

I'm sure some get the impression I don't like Romo as a QB and that's not true.

There's things about Romo as a QB I like a lot and there's things I don't like about him as a QB.

It's the things I don't like about him that make me think the Cowboys may never get it done with him. I'm still hopeful but I have doubts.

He's clearly the best QB the Cowboys have had since Aikman and he gives the fans hope that some of the great games we've seen from him during the regular season will show up in the playoffs.

One of the points I've tried making is when Roethlisberger or any good QB has 3-4 turnover games the game usually gets ugly.

I've pointed out some of the ugly multiple turnover games Roethlisberger has had during his career where his defense couldn't bail him out.

There's some turnovers that can't be overcome especially when they come in bunches and your QB can't get on track.

Our D bailed Romo out in a few games during his career where he's had 1 or 2 turnovers because they weren't real costly and he was still sharp in those games.

All QB's turn the ball over but Roethlisberger has been able to shake some of his turnovers off especially in real big games because he's able to maintain his composure.

I'm not saying his D doesn't help him but the guy makes plays in crunch time and he makes a lot them.

You have fans here knocking his ability but it takes a lot of ability to fight off defenders and extend plays the way he does in critical situations.

He doesn't lose his focus and allow his game to get away from him when bad things happen. Being able to overcome mistakes is part of what makes a QB great.


Romo was able to battle back late against the Ravens in 08 but his 2 early turnovers to Ed Reed put the team in a hole.

It took over 3 quarters for Romo to get something going and the defense finally caved in.

Until Romo gets a championship under his belt it's silly for anyone to try and put him on par with Roethlisberger.

I don't care what a QB's numbers are or how they look running or throwing the football what separates the great QB's from the good QB's is being able to get it done when their teams back is against the wall in a do or die game.

Anyone QB can look good when you're coasting to a victory.

It's when you're behind in a huge game with time running out and you need a TD to win that's when you find out what kind of heart and character a QB has as well as your team.

It's easy for some of these QB's to put up impressive numbers every Sunday playing in pass happy offenses but a lot of those QB's choke like dogs when their season is on the line and they have to make a play to save it.

 

[Tricericon]

The Saints scoring D ranked 20th in 09 giving up 21.3 points a game. They gave up 341 points for the season.

The Cowboys ranked 2nd giving up 15.6 points a game and only gave up 250 points for the season. The Jets who ranked #1 only gave up 14 points fewer than the Cowboys.

This shoots all kinds of holes in the claims being made that Romo never has good defenses.

I don't think this conclusion is true at all. I think the 2009 Cowboys had one of the league's best offenses and only a slightly above average defense, but played at a very low tempo that resulted in the scoring rankings indicating the opposite.

Think about it: our offense moved the ball very efficiently, and turned it over very rarely. Our defense was mediocre between the 20s but very good in the redzone, and had great difficulty between the 20s. The result would be what looks like an average offense and a great defense, but is actually the reverse due to the low total possession count for both teams.

 

[CATCH17]

KJJ...I think I need to stop now. I hope we are both just Cowboy fans that want the best for the team.

Either I suck at communicating or you are taking nearly everything I say wrong.

I have already said Ben R is HOFer. The ONLY REASON I have pointed out his fumbles, bad games, and etcetera is too illustrate that when that happens he has a much better chance of recovering because he has a superior D and no doubt better coaching. He has clearly made such clutch plays and kudos to him.

I do believe IMO that Romo has made some clutch plays too, but his defense has not quite returned the favor as much. I also believe that in order to win a Super Bowl we have to get better at some positions but QB is not a position of need. Nothing more...nothing less.

It appears to be getting personal and that is not where I want this to go.

Peace Out.

Dude this guy spins everything. I've said many times in this thread I like Vig Bens game and he says I hate Roethlisberger.

I've even said I would take Rodgers over Romo but I'm a Romo homer.

It's ok though. We all saw Pitt carry him to his 1st Superbowl and we've all seen Pitt not miss a beat if he isn't playing.

 

[KJJ]

I don't think this conclusion is true at all. I think the 2009 Cowboys had one of the league's best offenses and only a slightly above average defense, but played at a very low tempo that resulted in the scoring rankings indicating the opposite.

Think about it: our offense moved the ball very efficiently, and turned it over very rarely. Our defense was mediocre between the 20s but very good in the redzone, and had great difficulty between the 20s. The result would be what looks like an average offense and a great defense, but is actually the reverse due to the low total possession count for both teams.

You can read whatever you want into it just to disagree but the stats and results speak for themselves.

The Saints had the #1 offense in 09 and the Cowboys had the #2 offense.

The Saints defense was #25 and the Cowboys D was ranked #9. Our scoring defense was ranked #2 and the Saints scoring D was ranked #20.

By the end of that season the Cowboys defense was playing better than their ranking because the defense struggled early in the season.

Spencer had finally come on and was playing good football and the Cowboys were HOT after beating the undefeated Saints in the dome.

The Cowboys were playing as good as any team entering the playoffs coming off back to back shutouts.

A lot of people were picking the Cowboys to go to the SB after beating Philly in the playoffs.

It all went horribly wrong in Minnesota and what we saw in that game is pretty much what we saw this past season.

 

[KJJ]

Dude this guy spins everything. I've said many times in this thread I like Vig Bens game and he says I hate Roethlisberger.

I've even said I would take Rodgers over Romo but I'm a Romo homer.

It's ok though. We all saw Pitt carry him to his 1st Superbowl and we've all seen Pitt not miss a beat if he isn't playing.

You said Romo was better than Roethlisberger claiming he had better ability. Explain how Romo has better ability than Roethlisberger? What exactly can Romo do that's better than Roethlisberger?

 

[CATCH17]

You said Romo was better than Roethlisberger claiming he had better ability. Explain how Romo has better ability than Roethlisberger? What exactly can Romo do that's better than Roethlisberger?

Roethlisberger is better at breaking tackles and he can throw the ball longer than Romo.



Everything else Romo is pretty much better at as a passer.


Romo has better footwork, better release, better accuracy, probably smarter too.

And as good as Roethlisberger is at buying time Romo is better at that too imo.

In the clutch.. Roethlisberger is better but Romo is no shab at putting his team in position to win late either.


If I have a terrible defense I need a consistent playmaker and Romo is that guy.

If I have Pittsburghs defense... Well I can trot just about anyone out there and keep myself in a position to win all game long.

 

[lane]

I'm just responding to your drivel. I don't take football discussions personal we're just passionate fans giving our opinion.

What any of us think isn't going to change anything.

It's frustrating right now with the SB all set wishing our QB could make the plays Rodgers and Roethlisberger made to get their teams to the dance.

You give the impression you don't like Roethlisberger as a QB or maybe it's him as a person you have issues with. I wouldn't blame you for that we all have issues with him there but I'm judging him as a QB.

I'm sure some get the impression I don't like Romo as a QB and that's not true.

There's things about Romo as a QB I like a lot and there's things I don't like about him as a QB.

It's the things I don't like about him that make me think the Cowboys may never get it done with him. I'm still hopeful but I have doubts.

He's clearly the best QB the Cowboys have had since Aikman and he gives the fans hope that some of the great games we've seen from him during the regular season will show up in the playoffs.

One of the points I've tried making is when Roethlisberger or any good QB has 3-4 turnover games the game usually gets ugly.

I've pointed out some of the ugly multiple turnover games Roethlisberger has had during his career where his defense couldn't bail him out.

There's some turnovers that can't be overcome especially when they come in bunches and your QB can't get on track.

Our D bailed Romo out in a few games during his career where he's had 1 or 2 turnovers because they weren't real costly and he was still sharp in those games.

All QB's turn the ball over but Roethlisberger has been able to shake some of his turnovers off especially in real big games because he's able to maintain his composure.

I'm not saying his D doesn't help him but the guy makes plays in crunch time and he makes a lot them.

You have fans here knocking his ability but it takes a lot of ability to fight off defenders and extend plays the way he does in critical situations.

He doesn't lose his focus and allow his game to get away from him when bad things happen. Being able to overcome mistakes is part of what makes a QB great.


Romo was able to battle back late against the Ravens in 08 but his 2 early turnovers to Ed Reed put the team in a hole.

It took over 3 quarters for Romo to get something going and the defense finally caved in.

Until Romo gets a championship under his belt it's silly for anyone to try and put him on par with Roethlisberger.

I don't care what a QB's numbers are or how they look running or throwing the football what separates the great QB's from the good QB's is being able to get it done when their teams back is against the wall in a do or die game.

Anyone QB can look good when you're coasting to a victory.

It's when you're behind in a huge game with time running out and you need a TD to win that's when you find out what kind of heart and character a QB has as well as your team.

It's easy for some of these QB's to put up impressive numbers every Sunday playing in pass happy offenses but a lot of those QB's choke like dogs when their season is on the line and they have to make a play to save it.

great post..big ben is a great qb.

 

[KJJ]

Roethlisberger is better at breaking tackles and he can throw the ball longer than Romo.



Everything else Romo is pretty much better at as a passer.


Romo has better footwork, better release, better accuracy, probably smarter too.

And as good as Roethlisberger is at buying time Romo is better at that too imo.

In the clutch.. Roethlisberger is better but Romo is no shab at putting his team in position to win late either.


If I have a terrible defense I need a consistent playmaker and Romo is that guy.

If I have Pittsburghs defense... Well I can trot just about anyone out there and keep myself in a position to win all game long.

In my opinion Romo has only 2 things over Roethlisberger he's more athletic and has a quicker release.

Roethlisberger has a stronger arm than Romo and is better in and outside the pocket because he has better awareness.

Roethlisberger may not look graceful moving around but you can tell he's in control and is aware of his surroundings.

He side steps the rush similar to Dan Marino and can feel pressure. It's almost like he has eyes in the back of his head.

He maintains his poise in the face of a rush and can extend a play until he finds an open receiver. Joe Montana had that ability and it's very difficult to defend a QB like that.

No matter how many hits Roethlisberger takes he doesn't get rattled even after a broken nose a few weeks ago he maintained his composure.

Romo has made some great plays moving outside the pocket avoiding defenders but he's also had some disasters.

He does get rattled at times when things aren't going well and this can cause his game to come apart.

Unlike Roethlisberger who's great at sensing pressure around him Romo has a tendency to lose track of where defenders are which has caused some of his fumbling problems.

Romo moves around very well but unlike Roethlisberger he's unable to feel defenders coming up from behind at times which has resulted in a number of balls slapped away from him.

Defenders look for that with Romo because it's been an issue for him.

Roethlisberger's had his share of fumbles but most of his are a result of his ability to hang in with defenders draped on him.

He ends up in a lot of pile ups where he's hit by multiple defenders and they're able to dislodge the ball from him.

As far as intelligence goes off the field Roethlisberger is a complete ******* but on the field he's a very heads up player who makes good decisions especially in pressure situations.

This is why he's going for his 3rd SB win in 7 years.

In that area he has a clear edge over Romo who suffers from impulse throws that have led to some very poor decisions.

This is the one area I'm the most concerned about with Romo and it may be the hardest thing for him to overcome.

If he doesn't overcome it he'll never lead the Cowboys to a championship.

 

[KJJ]

If I have a terrible defense I need a consistent playmaker and Romo is that guy.

If I have Pittsburghs defense... Well I can trot just about anyone out there and keep myself in a position to win all game long.

It's those kind of comments that make it hard to take you seriously. So you'll trot out anyone at QB if you had the Steelers defense and you'll get to the SB? LOL By the way aren't you one of those who kept complaining our defense is the reason Romo can't get the team very far?

How is Romo an impulse throwing gunslinger going to help you win games if your defense is terrible? How was it going this past season? LOL

The Cowboys were 1-5 with Romo with a terrible defense did you forget? Some of you make me laugh. :laugh2:

If I have a terrible defense I'd rather have a heads up QB who can extend plays, move the chains and pick up critical 3rd downs to keep my defense off the field.

 

[birdwells1]

Can you be "clutch" in a losing effort? Yes you can. If you take your team down the field for a score that gives your team the lead and the other team only has 1 possession left (2 minutes or so on the clock), then that's clutch. An example is Kurt Warner against Pitts in the SB, he did all he could but the defense gave it up. When your QB scores the go ahead TD that absolves him of any bad plays he may have had earlier in the game IMO.

 

[TNCowboy]

Scouts Inc. piece on ESPN, ranking the players in the super bowl. They rank Roethlisberger the best player on either team.



ELITE PLAYERS

1. QB Ben Roethlisberger -- Steelers
Roethlisberger has that "been there, done that" factor over Rodgers. That isn't a knock on Rodgers, but Roethlisberger is simply amazing when it matters most. He didn't throw the ball well versus the Jets, but played a far better game than his numbers would indicate. His playmaking ability is just off the charts. Roethlisberger finds a way time and time again.

 

[Apollo Creed]

Scouts Inc. piece on ESPN, ranking the players in the super bowl. They rank Roethlisberger the best player on either team.



ELITE PLAYERS

1. QB Ben Roethlisberger -- Steelers
Roethlisberger has that "been there, done that" factor over Rodgers. That isn't a knock on Rodgers, but Roethlisberger is simply amazing when it matters most. He didn't throw the ball well versus the Jets, but played a far better game than his numbers would indicate. His playmaking ability is just off the charts. Roethlisberger finds a way time and time again.

I can name 5 other guys I'd rather have from the Steelers.

Scouts Inc and ESPN are about as credibility as PFT and bleecher report these days.

 

[DFWJC]

How did this thread get hi-jacked by Big Ben lovers?

It had nothing to do with him yet somehow we have another tired thread--just like the other that was about him.

The question was regarding Rodgers vs Bress, Manning, and Brady.

There is a specific thread on Roethlisberger already going. You guys can avoid wrriting the same thing over and over by writing it once on the Big Ben is great thread.
Good luck

 

[percyhoward]

Elite is a word to use sparingly, and I don't know that I would use it with Simms, but his stats are very comparable with Aikman's, so had he gotten a 2nd Super Bowl victory I think he would have had to get strong consideration for the HOF.

Aikman was a 6-time Pro Bowler who was one of the most accurate passers of all-time, and (along with Montana, Graham, and Starr) one of the top QBs in postseason history. Use "elite" with Aikman.

Simms was an above-average QB who had one good playoff year and made a couple of Pro Bowls. But like Troy, he had an outstanding defense.

 

[KJJ]

How did this thread get hi-jacked by Big Ben lovers?

It had nothing to do with him yet somehow we have another tired thread--just like the other that was about him.

The question was regarding Rodgers vs Bress, Manning, and Brady.

There is a specific thread on Roethlisberger already going. You guys can avoid wrriting the same thing over and over by writing it once on the Big Ben is great thread.
Good luck

This thread was started 2 weeks ago prior to the championship games.

The question asked by the OP was why is everyone crowning Rodgers after one playoff win. He seemed to think Romo is the better QB.

Obviously a lot has transpired since this thread was posted Brees, Manning and Brady have all been knocked out of the playoffs so naturally the discussion turned to Romo, Rodgers and Roethlisberger.

There's nothing wrong with fans regardless of what team they pull for having respect for another QB.

With the SB coming up Roethlisbergers name is going to come up a lot.

If you have a problem with this discussion don't click it on there's plenty of other topics to choose from. :toast:

 

[KJJ]

Simms was an above-average QB who had one good playoff year and made a couple of Pro Bowls. But like Troy, he had an outstanding defense.

So how come you didn't just go ahead and picture Aikman along with Simms, McMahon, Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer?

If you're going to slight a QB because their team had a great defense might as well throw in Terry Bradshaw as well he had the Steel Curtain. LOL

Some of you think you could have inserted ANY QB on some of these teams that had great defenses and they wouldn't have missed a beat.