Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Manning?

[Dhragon]

great post..big ben is a great qb.

Pretty good QB. Pretty lousy human being.

 

[Dhragon]

So how come you didn't just go ahead and picture Aikman along with Simms, McMahon, Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer?

If you're going to slight a QB because their team had a great defense might as well throw in Terry Bradshaw as well he had the Steel Curtain. LOL

Some of you think you could have inserted ANY QB on some of these teams that had great defenses and they wouldn't have missed a beat.

Somewhere Quincy Carter is crying because he wasn't the QB of those teams, lol.

 

[TwoDeep3]

Romo imo is the better qb,

No Romo is not better.

 

[KJJ]

Somewhere Quincy Carter is crying because he wasn't the QB of those teams, lol.

Yeah, I'm sure Quincy has reflected many a night over a joint what could have been had he been the QB on one of those great defensive teams. :laugh2:

 

[percyhoward]

Percy ended up like Marvis Frazier vs. Mike Tyson attempting to lump Roethlisberger and Phil Simms in with Brad Johnson, Jim McMahon, and Trent Dilfer.

That tells me everything I need to know about his insight into the game.

My point was this: The thing those guys have in common is that they were not Hall of Fame caliber QBs, but they were able to share in Super Bowl wins because of the overall strength of their teams. The fact that some of those guys were better than others is as inevitable as it is irrelevant to my point.

And you're the one lumping Roethlisberger in with them. He is not as good as his defenses, but he may reach that level yet, so he doesn't deserve to be pictured with those guys.

It's easy for some of these QB's to put up impressive numbers every Sunday playing in pass happy offenses but a lot of those QB's choke like dogs when their season is on the line and they have to make a play to save it.

There's something that you're not getting about Roethlisberger, and I'm going to try to clear it up for you. Being in a pass-happy offense doesn't make passing easier. Passers don't get high ratings from passing more often. It's just the opposite. Being in a balanced offense like the Steelers' is what makes passing easier.

A perfect rating has been posted in a game 58 times in NFL history. 51 of the 58 times it was done, the QB had 20 attempts or less. "Pass-happy" usually results in a lower rating, because the defense is expecting you to pass. They know what's coming. The less you pass, (the more balanced your offense) the better your chances of a high rating. The better your defense, the more balanced you can be on offense.

All QBs being equal, the better your defense, the better your QB's chances for a high passer rating.

[B]Steelers vs. Cowboys Pass/Run
Average League Rank (over each QB's career)
Pass Attempts[/B]
Pittsburgh: 25th
Dallas : 13th

[B]Rushing Attempts[/B]
Pittsburgh: 8th
Dallas: 18th

Ranking 8th in rushing attempts and 25th in passing attempts is a tremendous help to your quarterback. Young QBs like Ryan, Sanchez, and Flacco all benefit from this approach, but so do vets like Roethlisberger and (to a lesser extent) Brady. All those QBs have strong defenses and/or running games (again, with Brady, to a lesser extent).

Ranking where Dallas does puts the quarterback at a disadvantage. Guys like Manning, Brees, and Romo have more on their shoulders than the guys in that first group. Manning more than the other two.

BTW, that first part was the statistical explanation of the term "driving the bus." It's not just a term someone uses in deprecation for a QB they don't like. It has an actual meaning.

The better your defense, the fewer passes you have to attempt, and the higher your passer rating. It's reflected here:

[B]Average Passer Rating
(includes playoffs)[/B]
Roethlisberger
Less than 30 attempts: 101.4
30+ attempts: 83.1

Romo
Less than 30 attempts: 107.8
30+ attempts: 92.4

When Roethlisberger has had to throw 30 or more passes in a game, his average rating for that game goes down more than 18 points. Romo's goes down almost as much. But because of the Steeler defense, Roethlisberger hasn't had to attempt 30+ passes in a game nearly as often as Romo (who has averaged 32 attempts per game over his career).

Roethlisberger
Less than 30 attempts: 63 games 
30+ attempts: 47 games 

Romo
Less than 30 attempts: 19 games 
30+ attempts: 44 games

The disparity here is ridiculous. Imagine how high Romo's career rating would be if he didn't throw as many passes as he does. Here's another couple slices of reality...

[B]Games of 100+ rating (by # of attempts)[/B]
Roethlisberger 44 games @ 100+
Less than 30 attempts:  38 times in 63 games 
30+ attempts: 9 times in 47 games 

Romo 33 games @ 100+
Less than 30 attempts:  11 times in 19 games 
30+ attempts: 22 times in 44 games

Romo has posted a 100+ rating in 50% of his 30-attempt games. Roethlisberger has posted a 100+ rating in less than 20% of his.

In Roethlisberger's 10 highest-rated games of his career, he has never thrown as many as 28 passes.

In Romo's 10 highest-rated games of his career, he has thrown as many as 28 passes 7 times.

Basically, you and these others are talking about a great team, and you think you're talking about a quarterback.

 

[Cowboys&LakersFan]

No Romo is not better.

Yes he is. Put Romo on that team and they are unbeatable.

 

[KJJ]

My point was this: The thing those guys have in common is that they were not Hall of Fame caliber QBs, but they were able to share in Super Bowl wins because of the overall strength of their teams.

All QB's even Hall of Fame QB's from Joe Montana to Roger Staubach to Troy Aikman to Terry Bradshaw to every QB who ever won a SB shared in those wins because of the overall strength of their teams.

No QB no matter how great they are can succeed on a talentless team. It takes a number of components to build a great team and the most important component is a great QB.

The 85 Bears were one of the great teams of all time but it was their defense that made that team.

Had the Bears had a great QB they probably would have won more championships. Their D remained #1 in 86 and #2 in 87 and 88.

Walter Payton retired in 87 and McMahon who obviously wasn't an elite QB had more on his plate. This is why the Bears drafted Jim Harbaugh in the first rd in 87 hoping he would be elite.

The 2000 Ravens dumped Dilfer right after their SB victory because they knew they couldn't keep winning strictly with defense.

In this era of the NFL a team can't win a SB with an average QB like McMahon or Dilfer.

It's harder to win games with just solid defense because of the rule changes that have opened up passing attacks. Teams in this era have big, fast physical WR's that are hard to defend.

QB's like Dilfer, Brad Johnson and McMahon never had to make any clutch plays during their SB runs because their D's were so strong and they had a running game to lean on.

All they were asked to do was not make any mistakes and they made very few because they were never put in a position where a game was put on their shoulders.

Brad Johnson only turned the ball over 8 times in 2002 including the playoffs and SB. Jim McMahon only had 9 turnovers including the playoffs and SB in 85.

Trent Dilfer had 13 turnovers including the playoffs and SB in 2000. All 3 of those QB's had a combined ONE turnover during the playoffs and SB.

They were classic bus driver QB's and you can't win a championship with a QB who's asked to do as little of those QB's were asked to do during those seasons.

And you're the one lumping Roethlisberger in with them. He is not as good as his defenses, but he may reach that level yet, so he doesn't deserve to be pictured with those guys.

I'm lumping him in the "great" category because he's proven in the games that matter most he can get it done under the most trying situations.

What he did on that final drive 2 years ago in the SB is what GREAT QB's are made of.

He avoided NUMEROUS sacks that would have buried the Steelers and went on to throw the winning TD pass in the closing seconds.

You can have the "stat" QB's who put up the big numbers every season only to fall flat in the playoffs.

I'll take a clutch QB like Roethlisberger any day who's 10-2 postseason record and 2 SB wins proves he can get it done when it really matters.

There's something that you're not getting about Roethlisberger, and I'm going to try to clear it up for you. Being in a pass-happy offense doesn't make passing easier. Passers don't get high ratings from passing more often. It's just the opposite. Being in a balanced offense like the Steelers' is what makes passing easier.

The passing game is much easier now than it was years ago because of the many rule changes that has opened up it up.

This is why you're seeing so many 4000 yard passers every year. DB's use to be able to mug WR's all the way down the field.

In this era defenders can't hit a QB high, low or a fraction of a second too late or it's a penalty.

In this era you have big tall, physical WR's that create all kinds of matchup problems for smaller corners. We're seeing 4 and 5 WR sets.

Being able to pass more freely is the reason some average QB's have passer ratings higher than some HOF QB's.

I posted a list of the career passing rating leaders and it proves the more passing a QB does especially in this era leads to a higher passer rating. SIX of the top ten career passing rating leaders are CURRENT players.

Basically, you and these others are talking about a great team, and you think you're talking about a quarterback.

I am talking about a great QB but you seem to think we're talking about a QB who should be lumped in with Dilfer, Johnson and McMahon because he has a great defense. :laugh2:

As for the rest of your drivel I'm not wasting my time with that crap we could be here for a week with me shooting those stats full of holes. LOL

 

[KJJ]

Yes he is. Put Romo on that team and they are unbeatable.

 

[TwoDeep3]

Yes he is. Put Romo on that team and they are unbeatable.

The usual response from the Romo apologist.

Rogers is accurate. Something Romo struggles with about every third game.

Rogers has that certain something that most here deny exists because he leads and doesn't pout on the sidelines.

Rogers wins game.

Romo had a 13-3 team and the best in the NFC. He only needed to forge that team into a winner by galvanizing them with leadership in the Giants game.

But the excuse makers will point to dropped balls and cry that Romo played his part.

And when they play that game over, as they will, notice Romo whining on the field to his offensive line.

Then watch him reveal his true nature after the game.

"If this is the worst things that ever happens to me...."

Now imagine Staubach or Aikman making that statement.

There is no question Rogers is superior to Romo in so many ways it's laughable a thread like this can go sixteen pages.

Take off the homer glasses.

 

[CATCH17]

If Pittsburgh had Romo is anyone lowering expectations for Pittsburgh?


Are the Cowboys expecting a Superbowl if they picked up Big Ben?

 

[KJJ]

If Pittsburgh had Romo is anyone lowering expectations for Pittsburgh?

Based off Romo's history in big meaningful games the Steelers wouldn't be in the SB if he was the QB of that team.

Romo would have self destructed behind the Steelers OL. He would have gotten rattled in situations where Roethlisberger has maintained his poise.

Again this is based off Romo's history especially in BIG MEANINGFUL games.

To accurately gage how a QB could perform in critical situations in big games for another team you have to examine their history in those same situations on their own team.

Although Romo's defenses haven't been as good as Roethlisbergers defenses they've been good enough to win championships with.

The Saints won the SB in 09 with the 25th ranked defense.

Even though Roethlisbergers defenses have been great games have still come down to him having to make clutch plays for the Steelers to win.

Romo's had some top 10 defenses and he's had offenses that were ranked much higher and were much more explosive than the offenses Roethlisberger has had.

The Steelers offense ranked 14th this past season compared to 7th for the Cowboys who played most of the season with Kitna at QB..

When the Steelers won the SB in 08 their offense ranked #22 and their rushing offense ranked #23. They lost Mendenhall that season just like the Cowboys lost Felix.

Roethlisberger was sacked 46 times that season and didn't even have a running game to lean on.

His defense was being shredded in the SB and he was put in a position where he had to avoid sack after sack to lead his team on a desperation drive to throw the winning TD in the final seconds.

Romo has NOT shown the poise to make the clutch plays in huge games in critical situations and he certainly wouldn't have been able to pull off what Roethlisberger did in the SB 2 years ago behind that dreadful OL.

Go review what's happened to Romo when his OL has been unable to protect him.

Romo would have set an NFL single season record for fumbles behind the Steelers OL in 08 and this is based off history of fumbling.

Romo had 13 fumbles in 08 and lost 7 of them and this was in only 13 games behind an OL that wasn't maligned.

Romo was sacked only 20 times that season which indicated his fumbles were a result of carelessness.

Roethlisberger suffered 14 fumbles in 08 and lost 7 of them but he was sacked more than twice as much as Romo.

Roethlisberger took a beating that season which led to him being carted off with a concussion late in the season.

He was battling several injuries from all the hits he had taken.

Are the Cowboys expecting a Superbowl if they picked up Big Ben?

In my opinion based off the teams the Cowboys have had the past 5 years they would have won at least one SB had they drafted Roethlisberger.

His game would not have come apart at the end of 07. Based off his history he would have been playing his best football entering the playoffs that season unlike Romo who was playing his worst football.

Even that trip to Cabo just before the playoffs didn't help Romo find his game.

Roethlisberger would have played a more controlled efficient game than Romo did against the Giants during the playoffs picking up critical 3rd downs that Romo was unable to convert.

Again this is based off Roethlisbergers history in postseason games.

Had the Cowboys had Roethlisberger in 08 and the Steelers had Romo the Cowboys would have no doubt won that game based off what we saw from both players when the game was on the line.

The 08 season may have ended up totally different for the Cowboys had they had a clutch QB like Roethlisberger. They certainly would have made the playoffs that year no doubt!

Romo had 8 turnovers the final month of the 08 season and all 8 of his turnovers came in the 3 games where Romo and the team faced adversity.

The only game Romo maintained his composure in was against the struggling Giants. The Cowboys had that game under control from practically the first snap.

It's when Romo's facing adversity that things start going horribly wrong for the Cowboys in big games. That's when all his turnovers start popping up especially on the road in cold weather.

It's easy to say Romo could be all world on another team that has a great defense but he's still going to face some adversity in crunch games and he hasn't shown he can maintain his poise when faced with adversity and be able come through. Examine his history!

 

[CATCH17]

Well Big Ben is down 14 and just made a dumb impulse throw.


If his defense doesnt start backing him up it's over because he isn't a good enough QB to overcome this.

 

[CATCH17]

Come on Ben you can't always rely on your defense!


It's a 4 quarter game man!

 

[CATCH17]

You watchin this KJJ?

Rodgers is showing what a skilled QB looks like.

Ben is showing what a bus driver looks like when he can't rely on his defense to keep him in it.

 

[KJJ]

Come on Ben you can't always rely on your defense!


It's a 4 quarter game man!

This is what happens when a QB turns the ball over multiple times in big games. Hard for any defense to overcome the turnovers Roethlisberger has had.

 

[KJJ]

You watchin this KJJ?

Rodgers is showing what a skilled QB looks like.

Ben is showing what a bus driver looks like when he can't rely on his defense to keep him in it.

Read through this thread I told you if any QB turns the ball over multiple times in big games it's hard to win.

I've pointed out the bad games Roethlisberger has had and the result it led to.

It all goes back to Romo and his turnovers in big games but everyone blames the Cowboys defense and the talent around Romo for those losses.

 

[KJJ]

You watchin this KJJ?

Rodgers is showing what a skilled QB looks like.

Ben is showing what a bus driver looks like when he can't rely on his defense to keep him in it.

He couldn't rely on his defense 2 years ago in the SB when they gave up a 64 yard TD with just over 2 minutes to play.

His defense hasn't been stellar in this game but Roethlisberger is still hanging in.

 

[percyhoward]

When Roethlisberger has had to throw 30 or more passes in a game, his average rating for that game goes down more than 18 points.

He threw 21 passes in the first half.