Roy Williams vs Sean Taylor vs Adam Archuleta revisted

[skinsngibbs4life]

I said I thought it was HH who said he accounted for the stats by watching games...but it wasn't HH. It was TEK2000. I know its late and I'm tired, but I don't think my posts are that confusing.

Nah, my bad. I thought that you were being sarcastic in your last post. But you wern't. My bad.

 

[apickmans]

Watching the games often makes up for the stats.

I have video of 3 of Taylor's TDs given up.
1) vs Cowboys... Terry Glenn 40 yard TD catch

Then shouldnt williams be credited for giving up that long flea flicker TD pass against the eagles??

 

[Bob Sacamano]

And Archuleta......oh boy, don't think anyone needs to touch that......hes been down right putrid.

so bad in fact that he's rotating w/ Troy Vincent on passing downs :laugh2:

 

[TEK2000]

Then shouldnt williams be credited for giving up that long flea flicker TD pass against the eagles??

Ughh... no.. that was by NO MEANS his man to cover. He simply managed to get in the area to help. That was Watkins' man... on all 3 of Philly's long passes.

 

[apickmans]

Ughh... no.. that was by NO MEANS his man to cover. He simply managed to get in the area to help. That was Watkins' man... on all 3 of Philly's long passes.

Thank you saving me the time. Exactly the same thing with Taylor except the coverage was so blown on that play there was no one covering Glenn.

 

[TEK2000]

Thank you saving me the time. Exactly the same thing with Taylor except the coverage was so blown on that play there was no one covering Glenn.

I hope you're kidding trying to defend him on this play. Taylor is lined up deep directly over Terry Glenn. Are you trying to tell me that your defensive linemen #98 was suppose to cover Terry Glenn man to man all the way down the field?

Taylor obviously has the deep center of the field zone on that play and Terry Glenn ran right thru his zone. Its EXACTLY the same route as Andre Johnson ran and EXACTLY the same result. Taylor turns his hips to the outside and is WAY out of position to cover the reciever in his zone.

 

[apickmans]

I hope you're kidding trying to defend him on this play. Taylor is lined up deep directly over Terry Glenn. Are you trying to tell me that your defensive linemen #98 was suppose to cover Terry Glenn man to man all the way down the field?

Taylor obviously has the deep center of the field zone on that play and Terry Glenn ran right thru his zone. Its EXACTLY the same route as Andre Johnson ran and EXACTLY the same result. Taylor turns his hips to the outside and is WAY out of position to cover the reciever in his zone.

#98 is lemar marshall, who is our middle LB and someone who used to be a former Safety. Sometimes our Scheme has him going back to defend the pass. I wish Google hadnt of bought Youtube so i could see the play again.

 

[TEK2000]

If you want the video of that play... here's a link to download it:

http://www.bnbathletics.com/cowboysvids/06/was06-g1-terryglenn-tdcatch-sham.wmv
23 MB

Look at the first replay and it shows Taylor CLEARLY maneuvering to cover Glenn as he runs his deep post route.

 

[ghst187]

I too have to give props to Taylor, and I don't think he's slightly better in coverage, I think they are equal. So if all things are equal, then give the edge to the stand up character guy, that's Roy Williams.

Taylor is a good player no doubt. I don't really think he's better in coverage either. He was used more in coverage in college I believe and I remember his INTs being a big selling point at draft time.
I truly think Roy is a slightly better player, seems a more mature player. And I don't just mean that he's not a thug, I mean he seems more adept, more prepared, and more prone to make a big play.....not a lot better, but a little.
If Taylor matures a bit, maybe he'll be better than Roy I don't know. I don't think he's there yet though. Talented though definitely.

What's funny though in a way is that we all expect Roy to be bulletproof/flawless each and every game and we expect him to make big plays every game. It just so happens that he gets beaten once in a while. Steeler fans expect the same from Palmolive, skins fans expect the same from Taylor...etc...
The fact is that everyone in the NFL is pretty darned good and every player, even all-stars, are going to get beaten some times. Many times we just have unrealistic expectations of players, esp on defense where its so reactive.
Even Deion got beaten once in a while....it was just fewer and farther between than most. And the rules have been changed since he played.

 

[TEK2000]

#98 is lemar marshall, who is our middle LB and someone who used to be a former Safety. Sometimes our Scheme has him going back to defend the pass. I wish Google hadnt of bought Youtube so i could see the play again.

My mistake.. I just figured a guy #98 was a DLineman. Regardless, what's your honest feeling on wanting your Middle LB covering a very speedy reciever in Terry Glenn.

Honestly, to me, that's like us asking 250lb Bradie James (one of our Middle LBers) to cover Santana Moss man to man.

Apickmans.. I respect you for discussing this topic. I know its such a heated debate between Boys and Skins fans concerning Williams and Taylor.
I've been to ES trying to discuss this topic before the season started and its hard to sift thru all the uninformed posts by people making ridiculous comments to get to posts made by people that are genuinely trying to discuss it.

 

[DawnOfANewD]

What stud S's would be a good comparison to Williams? John Lynch? Rodney Harrison?

 

[apickmans]

My mistake.. I just figured a guy #98 was a DLineman. Regardless, what's your honest feeling on wanting your Middle LB covering a very speedy reciever in Terry Glenn.

Honestly, to me, that's like us asking 250lb Bradie James (one of our Middle LBers) to cover Santana Moss man to man.

Apickmans.. I respect you for discussing this topic. I know its such a heated debate between Boys and Skins fans concerning Williams and Taylor.
I've been to ES trying to discuss this topic before the season started and its hard to sift thru all the uninformed posts by people making ridiculous comments to get to posts made by people that are genuinely trying to discuss it.

Sorry my computer is sucking and it took forever for the vid to download, but comparing Lemar to Bradie wont work because Lemar is 6'2 and weighs 227. Yeah i wouldnt want Lemar to cover a speedy receiver like Glenn for an entire game, but in that play it looked like we were playing a Zone. Lemar fell for the playaction and it seemed like Taylor was supposed to be helping Rogers over the top. Look at how Rogers barely touches TO and lets him go by, expecing for Taylor to help. Asking G.Williams here would help no doubt because i think asking Taylor to help cover TO and Glenn over the top like that is crazy.

Haha Tek yeah i know this is a heated debate and you seem like know your stuff. Threads like this get started because people like HH start one and put up stats out of their a##.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Sorry my computer is sucking and it took forever for the vid to download, but comparing Lemar to Bradie wont work because Lemar is 6'2 and weighs 227. Yeah i wouldnt want Lemar to cover a speedy receiver like Glenn for an entire game, but in that play it looked like we were playing a Zone. Lemar fell for the playaction and it seemed like Taylor was supposed to be helping Rogers over the top. Look at how Rogers barely touches TO and lets him go by, expecing for Taylor to help. Asking G.Williams here would help no doubt because i think asking Taylor to help cover TO and Glenn over the top like that is crazy.

Haha Tek yeah i know this is a heated debate and you seem like know your stuff. Threads like this get started because people like HH start one and put up stats out of their a##.

whichever way you want to look at it, a LB, don't care what the scheme is, isn't called to run side-by-side w/ a WR the length of the field

Glenn was one of your safety's responsibilities

and Pat Watkins made a similar mistake against the Eagles, he ran over to help Anthony Henry when the call was for him to cover LJ SMith after ROy released him, I believe Taylor did the same thing on this particular play, except for Marshall, a LB, was supposed to let Glenn, a WR, go into the zone, where Taylor was supposed to guard him, but instead he ran to help ROgers, I don't think that was the design of the play

 

[Shuttemdown41]

Not to pile on or anything, but Crayton's touchdown in that game was also on Taylor in man coverage.

 

[MONT17]

DBs get beat... everyweek on every level! Blown coverages or not! I do not care if my safety gets beat once in a while, its going to happen maybe he is fooled or just too aggressive for his own good... as long as he is not the focal point of an opposing O, much like AA has been throughout his entire career!

a good Safety will always make u pay for going to the well... as evident with Roys pick late in the game a few nights ago.

 

[Tuna Helper]

DBs get beat... everyweek on every level! Blown coverages or not! I do not care if my safety gets beat once in a while, its going to happen maybe he is fooled or just too aggressive for his own good... as long as he is not the focal point of an opposing O, much like AA has been throughout his entire career!

a good Safety will always make u pay for going to the well... as evident with Roys pick late in the game a few nights ago.

I agree with this. All DBs get beat once in awhile. RW has 3 picks this year. Maybe he isn't the liability in pass coverage that everyone in the media thinks he is.

ST, on the other hand, does get beaten more regularly than RW, especially against the Cowboys.

 

[apickmans]

whichever way you want to look at it, a LB, don't care what the scheme is, isn't called to run side-by-side w/ a WR the length of the field

Glenn was one of your safety's responsibilities

Maybe youre right, and if you are maybe it was AA's responsibilty. The replays on the video could of been better. I would of liked to seen how the defense was alligned and everything. Either way none of us know what Def. play was called by G. Williams and in the end you guys won the game and thats all that should matter.

 

[Tuna Helper]

Not to pile on or anything, but Crayton's touchdown in that game was also on Taylor in man coverage.

Are you referring to the 2004 game? Didn't Taylor change his number to 21 from 36 after he got embarrassed that day?

 

[TEK2000]

I'm sorry but I think you're wrong.

Something I just realized. #57 is the guy lined up on the inside shoulder of Terry Glenn. #98 only comes into the play because he drops deep into coverage from the middle LB position. #57 doesn't do ANYTHING except turn to the inside and let Glenn just run his route. Seems like he should try to jam him or SOMETHING.

Either someone didn't do their job or the its just a terrible defensive coverage scheme. TO and Glenn both run deep routes. Taylor is forced to cover one of them (he obviously can't cover both) and it looks like Rogers turns to cover the short zone but then tries to recover and get back on TO. Taylor never seems to even look at TO and moves with every move that Glenn does.

What's cool is that the Texans used the SAME EXACT routes to exploit the same exact coverage. Looks like SOMEONE was watching the film of the Cowboys/Commanders game.

 

[TEK2000]

Are you referring to the 2004 game? Didn't Taylor change his number to 21 from 36 after he got embarrassed that day?

No.. he's right. I completely forgot about Crayton's TD in this season's Washington game.

2:39 left in the 1st quarter. We're on the 4 yard line and Taylor is manned up on Crayton. Crayton runs an up and in route and gets separation from Taylor. (Though there was a collision and some pushing going on between the 2 of them before he caught it)

I guess that takes our Sean Taylor total to 4 TD's allowed to 2 TD's allowed by Roy Williams.

Sean Taylor is even with Pat Watkins on TD's allowed.