Rushing to help the Defense

[wileedog]

For the fans who think we should've went defense at 4 and took a back in the mid-rounds, you honestly think Jalen Ramsey would make us a better team righht now than Zeke Elliot?.

Yes.

Not because Ramsey is a better player than Zeke, but because the defense needs tons more help right now than the running game.

 

[Nightman]

Morris was signed to be the short yardage back. Given the OL we have that is smart. No more passing evertime we have 3rd and 1, 4th and 1, goal line.......

Morris was signed to be the back-up...he is a good first and second down RB but isn't a short yardage guy by trade...he is a vet that can take a series or two from Elliott and fill in if needed....his pass game was almost non-existent in WAS but they had better options... just like we do in Dunbar and DMC

 

[Risen Star]

Morris was signed to be the short yardage back. Given the OL we have that is smart. No more passing evertime we have 3rd and 1, 4th and 1, goal line.......

There's nothing smart about using Morris over Elliott. He was signed before the pick was made. He's an inferior talent.

 

[Nightman]

Only here do we try to make our offense better in an effort to help our defense.....instead of well......simply trying to make our defense better, period. Doesn't seem overly complicated to me but somehow we have made it so.



Carry on.

it is a nice side effect, not the reason for the pick....picks 2,3,4,6 were for defense

 

[AsthmaField]

Speaking for myself, there simply wasn't a defensive player that I really liked at 4. There just wasn't. It was a shame because I was all ready to go defense at that pick.

However, I really, really, really liked Elliott. To me, there wasn't another player that was even close to him. I dreaded them taking Ramsey at 4, which is what I thought they would do. I didn't dread it because I thought Ramsey wasn't good... I think he is a great safety prospect and a really good corner prospect.. I dreaded it because I thought Elliott was easily the best player of those two and I didn't want to pass on a guy who I saw no holes in his game just because the defense needed more help.

Had an Aaron Donald or Khalil Mack been sitting there at 4, I would have been all about drafting one of them (even though I still would have hated to miss Elliott). They weren't and none of the defenders that were there were even close to them.

To me, as a prospect Ramsey doesn't belong in the same breath as Donald and Mack... but Elliott does.

There is a reason that all of the Giants, Commanders, and Philly fans hoped like hell that Dallas passed on Ezekiel. They know what he is going to do to their teams.

 

[Kaiser]

it is a nice side effect, not the reason for the pick....picks 2,3,4,6 were for defense

Yup, I posted that earlier in the thread. If the top player in the draft (on the Cowboys board) is still there at #4 and its a position of need, its a no brainer. I generally agree with the idea of taking RBs later in the draft and not burning a top five pick, but if BPA and Need line up at a premium skill position you absolutely take Zeke.

 

[Kaiser]

However, I really, really, really liked Elliott. To me, there wasn't another player that was even close to him. I dreaded them taking Ramsey at 4, which is what I thought they would do. I didn't dread it because I thought Ramsey wasn't good... I think he is a great safety prospect and a really good corner prospect.. I dreaded it because I thought Elliott was easily the best player of those two and I didn't want to pass on a guy who I saw no holes in his game just because the defense needed more help.

I thought Ramsey would be the pick also but there were significant questions about him. Also the argument that you don't take a RB at 4 goes even moreso for Ramsey at 4 if you think he is a safety long term.

I wasn't as high on Elliot as you were but I probably should have been. The bottom line is Zeke was the top rated player in the entire draft for Dallas, the argument basically begins and ends on that point.

 

[big dog cowboy]

There's nothing smart about using Morris over Elliott. He was signed before the pick was made.

I didn't say it was smart. And I an certainly aware they signed him before the draft.

 

[LatinMind]

Nope. Thinking that a RB you rate as the top player in the draft will get 1845 yards as a rookie is a huge stretch, but it isn't insane. I've never said that and I don't remember anyone else posting it either.

But thinking you can grab any one of a group of 4th round picks and they will get 1845 yards as a rookie is certifiable, bat poop insane.

Peterson has never had the OL dallas does. nobody thought Murray would get the yrds he did in 2014. Running behind a wall does wonders for your rb.

 

[wileedog]

Speaking for myself, there simply wasn't a defensive player that I really liked at 4. There just wasn't. It was a shame because I was all ready to go defense at that pick.

However, I really, really, really liked Elliott. To me, there wasn't another player that was even close to him. I dreaded them taking Ramsey at 4, which is what I thought they would do. I didn't dread it because I thought Ramsey wasn't good... I think he is a great safety prospect and a really good corner prospect.. I dreaded it because I thought Elliott was easily the best player of those two and I didn't want to pass on a guy who I saw no holes in his game just because the defense needed more help.

Had an Aaron Donald or Khalil Mack been sitting there at 4, I would have been all about drafting one of them (even though I still would have hated to miss Elliott). They weren't and none of the defenders that were there were even close to them.

To me, as a prospect Ramsey doesn't belong in the same breath as Donald and Mack... but Elliott does.

There is a reason that all of the Giants, Commanders, and Philly fans hoped like hell that Dallas passed on Ezekiel. They know what he is going to do to their teams.

I get this argument. I really do.

But when the boat has a hole in it and is taking on water, strapping a faster engine to it, no matter how awesome, doesn't stop it from sinking.

 

[Kaiser]

I get this argument. I really do.

But when the boat has a hole in it and is taking on water, strapping a faster engine to it, no matter how awesome, doesn't stop it from sinking.

I get that argument, but it comes down to scouting. The Cowboys have drafted very well lately and rated Zeke as the #1 player in the draft. The "perfect" draft choice may not be the best guy on the draft board. Remember when the fans went nuts when Dallas didn't draft Sharrif Floyd at the 18th pick of the draft? Floyd had 2.5 sacks last year, taking him at that spot would have been a mistake but fans considered it a no-brainer.

I thought the pick would be Ramsey but even if you think he is the real thing, upgrading from Carr to Ramsey is less of an improvement on this team than upgrading from DMC to Elliot.

 

[AsthmaField]

I get this argument. I really do.

But when the boat has a hole in it and is taking on water, strapping a faster engine to it, no matter how awesome, doesn't stop it from sinking.

I understand and much of the time would have probably been on the other side of the argument. If you're looking at this coming season only, a lower rated defensive player probably was the way to go.

However, looking at the long term value to the franchise, I just feel like Elliott was the best player available by a wide margin.

It is cool though... I do see both sides here and understand perfectly what you're driving at.

 

[percyhoward]

For the fans who think we should've went defense at 4 and took a back in the mid-rounds, you honestly think Jalen Ramsey would make us a better team right now than Zeke Elliot?

If you didn't like Ramsey at 4, you could have traded down for a defender you liked and gotten the mid-round RB for literally nothing -- in a draft that was deep in defensive talent.

We're either going to have to hope the defense plays much better than expected, or that we become the first team to win a championship without a Top 12 defense, or one that played to that level in the playoffs. That's the bed we've made for ourselves by selecting Elliott.

 

[Sydla]

To get that number of 86 instances of 1500 yards rushing, you have to go back to the 1950's and 1960's. There were 14 teams in the NFL in the 60's and 12 in the 50's - which makes the "top 8 defense" a completely meaningless metric.

Well that was a whiff.

 

[percyhoward]

Looking at the long term value to the franchise, I just feel like Elliott was the best player available by a wide margin.

This might actually turn out to be true, although it depends on time and more things falling into place.

It could be that Elliott is just the first piece in the rest of the puzzle, and that the defense will improve to playoff-caliber in 2-3 years, and that Elliott helps prolong Romo's career or makes it easier for Romo's successor to have success. My thinking is that, with the league's best run-blocking OL, we were better off banking on the younger version of Romo + an influx of defensive talent from our picks this year.

 

[AsthmaField]

This might actually turn out to be true, although it depends on time and more things falling into place.

It could be that Elliott is just the first piece in the rest of the puzzle, and that the defense will improve to playoff-caliber in 2-3 years, and that Elliott helps prolong Romo's career or makes it easier for Romo's successor to have success. My thinking is that, with the league's best run-blocking OL, we were better off banking on the younger version of Romo + an influx of defensive talent from our picks this year.

I gotcha. That is an understandable position to take on this subject, and one that I probably agree with 8 out of 10 times. In Elliott's case though, I thought he was too valuable a commodity to pass on, regardless of greater needs elsewhere.

I'm not saying I'm right but I feel like Ezekiel is a transcendent talent at a position that can put the offense over the top and affect everyone on that side of the ball.

I don't really take the position that he will help the defense enough to really matter. Maybe he will maybe he won't, but I'm not taking an offense of player and saying I'm helping my defense.

I wanted Elliot because he is one bad MoFo.

 

[WillieBeamen]

If you didn't like Ramsey at 4, you could have traded down for a defender you liked and gotten the mid-round RB for literally nothing -- in a draft that was deep in defensive talent.

We're either going to have to hope the defense plays much better than expected, or that we become the first team to win a championship without a Top 12 defense, or one that played to that level in the playoffs. That's the bed we've made for ourselves by selecting Elliott.

Yea but percy, what defenders could we have gotten, that would make us a top 10 defense? Like @AsthmaField said, if there was an Aaron Donald, Khalil Mack, Von Miller, or Leonard Williams, im pretty sure most of us would've loved to have one of them instead of Elliot.

 

[percyhoward]

Yea but percy, what defenders could we have gotten, that would make us a top 10 defense?

It would have made sense to use the first two picks on defenders who can play right now, and upgrade two starting positions at an area of weakness. Maybe that makes you Top 10, maybe not, but at least you're giving yourself a chance.

You're already wasting a great run-blocking line by taking a player who doesn't need one.

 

[Idgit]

Yea but percy, what defenders could we have gotten, that would make us a top 10 defense? Like @AsthmaField said, if there was an Aaron Donald, Khalil Mack, Von Miller, or Leonard Williams, im pretty sure most of us would've loved to have one of them instead of Elliot.

There are workhorse players available in each draft who aren't big names or who don't necessarily look like the perfect fit on paper. Look at the Frederick pick. People thought that it was a case where the Cowboys got stuck and reached, but it turned out to be a really good value pick. We could have done the same thing in this draft selecting at 12-15 with a trade or a couple of trades back. People would complain on the spot that we missed out on a top-10 talent, but we'd have diversified risk and probably added 2 top-50 players on our board plus the rookie RB with that draft capital. Not including what we might have done if we hadn't used the #34 pick overall on a lay-away project.

 

[WillieBeamen]

There are workhorse players available in each draft who aren't big names or who don't necessarily look like the perfect fit on paper. Look at the Frederick pick. People thought that it was a case where the Cowboys got stuck and reached, but it turned out to be a really good value pick. We could have done the same thing in this draft selecting at 12-15 with a trade or a couple of trades back. People would complain on the spot that we missed out on a top-10 talent, but we'd have diversified risk and probably added 2 top-50 players on our board plus the rookie RB with that draft capital. Not including what we might have done if we hadn't used the #34 pick overall on a lay-away project.

This probably would have been the wiser move, but there is just so much risk involved in this scenario. You trade back and miss out on the player/players you were targeting, then what?

I think the front office got it right this time. We went with who they believe is a sure thing at a high impact position. Could we have possibly gotten someone to replace McFadden in the mid-rounds? Yes, but they wouldnt be the all-around player Elliot is who excels in pass pro and is very smart.