Rushing to help the Defense

[Rogerthat12]

If you didn't like Ramsey at 4, you could have traded down for a defender you liked and gotten the mid-round RB for literally nothing -- in a draft that was deep in defensive talent.

We're either going to have to hope the defense plays much better than expected, or that we become the first team to win a championship without a Top 12 defense, or one that played to that level in the playoffs. That's the bed we've made for ourselves by selecting Elliott.

Free Agency is where the "bed was made" and though they signed Thornton and Mayowa one could argue the glaring need at DE was still not sufficiently addressed.

Usually, pass rushers take time to adjust to the NFL even the best in the draft usually have little impact in year one.

I agree that the defense was not properly addressed but I would argue that the team failed in free agency in terms of impact DE, Mayowa may offer something but at this juncture he is an unkown.

The Zeke pick would not be the one to point to in terms of problematics, he was rated number one on their board, the second round pick could have been pass rush and immediate rotation, it was practically a first round pick!

 

[big dog cowboy]

the second round pick could have been pass rush and immediate rotation, it was practically a first round pick!

Except the 2 DE players they wanted were taken with the 2 picks right in front of them.

 

[Rogerthat12]

Except the 2 DE players they wanted were taken with the 2 picks right in front of them.

They could have traded back in the round!

 

[big dog cowboy]

They could have traded back in the round!

And missed out on someone they had in their top 5 on their draft board?

 

[Rogerthat12]

And missed out on someone they had in their top 5 on their draft board?

I have no problem with the Jaylon pick in the second personally but those who are blaming the draft approach in round one and failing to address the round two selection is problematic in terms of immediate defensive help.

I like both selections but have argued that free agency was the failure defensively even with Thorton and Mayowa signed.

Further, not addressing the DE position more aggressively in free agency seems to be the major issue. Mayowa is an unkown and Crawford we had last year.

 

[Kaiser]

Further, not addressing the DE position more aggressively in free agency seems to be the major issue. Mayowa is an unkown and Crawford we had last year.

I think the plan was to develop Ryan Russell and David Irving rather than pay free agents. There are already writeups saying Russell looks like a completely different player after the normal second year improvement, plus Irving has plus physical skills.

Randy Gregory is a wildcard but could add a lot as a second year player if he stays on the straight and narrow.

They also resigned Jack Crawford, who can play strong side DE if needed, and drafted Tapper in the 4th. Tapper looks like he could be a rotational player as a rookie if needed.

I think it was more of a numbers game for the team than wanting to pay big money for free agents.

 

[Rogerthat12]

I think the plan was to develop Ryan Russell and David Irving rather than pay free agents. There are already writeups saying Russell looks like a completely different player after the normal second year improvement, plus Irving has plus physical skills.

Randy Gregory is a wildcard but could add a lot as a second year player if he stays on the straight and narrow.

They also resigned Jack Crawford, who can play strong side DE if needed, and drafted Tapper in the 4th. Tapper looks like he could be a rotational player as a rookie if needed.

I think it was more of a numbers game for the team than wanting to pay big money for free agents.

I think you are correct, Jerry was on NFL Access today talking about they are hoping for success with the rotational approach on defense and admitted the challenges ahead in 2016 defensively.

Jerry indicated they have full confidence in the offense and hope that can somehow rally the defense.

My earlier point was that those being critical of picking Zeke @4 when they could have used defense, usually ignore the fact Zeke was #1 on their board and that any defensive player selected in this particular draft probably would have had little impact immediately speaking.

The Cowboys had the option to draft immediate rotational help in round two and could have traded down if their two top of the round DE's were gone and if they decided to pass on Smith.

Further, they ideally could have added a midgrade DE in free agency but chose not to accordingly.

I personally think Irvin can offer something at the left end position and hope Russell has turned the corner.

I hold out hope for Mayowa but certainly would have liked a midgrade DE in free agency with some proven experience.

They may still add someone after later cuts but we will see how this rotational approach plays out in due time.

 

[percyhoward]

Usually, pass rushers take time to adjust to the NFL even the best in the draft usually have little impact in year one. The Zeke pick would not be the one to point to in terms of problematics, he was rated number one on their board, the second round pick could have been pass rush and immediate rotation, it was practically a first round pick!

It wasn't really "Elliott vs. pass rusher" though. With a trade down, we could have spent the first two picks on defenders who could start right now, and picked up a RB for nothing.

 

[percyhoward]

This probably would have been the wiser move, but there is just so much risk involved in this scenario. You trade back and miss out on the player/players you were targeting, then what?

Then you take your next highest-rated defender, if the idea is to win now with Romo. Because you have to take a shot a having the kind of defense that can hold its own in the playoffs. That should be your starting point.

We had three big advantages going into the draft: the #4 pick, the league's best run-blocking OL, and a draft deep in defensive talent. We didn't make good use of any of them. The term "impact player" sounds good, but history tells us this:

• Teams don't win Super Bowls without at least a Top 12 defense or one that plays to that level in the playoffs.
  
• The best rushing performances weren't enough without a Top 8 defense.
  
• None of the best offenses won a Super Bowl without a playoff-caliber defense.

 

[WillieBeamen]

Then you take your next highest-rated defender, if the idea is to win now with Romo. Because you have to take a shot a having the kind of defense that can hold its own in the playoffs. That should be your starting point.

We had three big advantages going into the draft: the #4 pick, the league's best run-blocking OL, and a draft deep in defensive talent. We didn't make good use of any of them. The term "impact player" sounds good, but history tells us this:

• Teams don't win Super Bowls without at least a Top 12 defense or one that plays to that level in the playoffs.
  
• The best rushing performances weren't enough without a Top 8 defense.
  
• None of the best offenses won a Super Bowl without a playoff-caliber defense.

Percy, I hear what you're saying, but if the plan was to win now with Romo, we should've signed more big name free agents in free agency. To me, the draft was more about building for the future instead of win now. If it was, we wouldnt have been willing to give up both Day 2 picks for Lynch.

On top of that, I dont think it's fair to say since this OL is so good, we dont need an elite back. This is the same franchise that had Tony Dorsett and Emmitt Smith run behind some really good o-lines

 

[cowboyblue22]

the problem is that the cowboys have a million dollar offense and a 10 cent defense and without the defense really steps up big time its going to be a tough season for the cowboys and like usual will probably end in early January.

 

[Plankton]

The myth of the late round RB star is just that

over the last 30 years almost all of the top 25 RBs were drafted in the 1st round, a few 2nd and 3rds and if you want to count some shorter career guys like TDavis-6th, PHolmes-UD and AFoster-UD you can but the studs are drafted early just like every other position

I'll reiterate a post I made before the draft when the debate was about drafting Elliott at #4.

Why would you take a running back in the first round?

There are 47 players who are considered running backs that are in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Out of that number:

• 26 RB were drafted in the first round of the draft. 55% of the entire total.
• 4 RB were drafted in the second round of the draft.
• 1 RB was drafted in the third round of the draft.
• 1 RB was drafted in the seventh round of the draft.
• 1 RB was drafted in the eighth round of the draft.
• 1 RB was drafted in the ninth round of the draft.
• 2 RB were undrafted free agents.
• 11 RB entered the league before there was a draft.

I had performed this exercise with the QB position, and the numbers strongly favored finding a true franchise guy in the first round (14 of the 32 total were first round selections). With the RB position, it's even more skewed in favor of finding a true, historic difference making RB with a first round pick.

I understand that the passing game is king, and that passing efficiency for/against is the greatest determining statistical factor in wins/losses. But, having a player at the RB position who contributes on all downs, and provides no clue to the opposition of what play is going to be run due to their versatility in all areas will positively impact that efficiency statistic in ways that stats don't tell the whole story. Look back to 2014 - it wasn't just the statisitics of total yards that marked DeMarco Murray's contributions to the Cowboys' offensive attack. It was how well rounded of a player that he was that his presence on the field provided no tip to the defense in what play would be run - he was highly effective as a runner, decoy on play fakes, a pass receiver and a blocker. A player who can contribute in that kind of manner is well worth a first round selection.

Ezekiel Elliott is that kind of player.

 

[Plankton]

A couple of points to throw out there:

• Taking Leonard Floyd with a top 6 pick would have been an insane reach. First of all, he's not a natural scheme fit (3-4 OLB in college who would have to move to DE in Dallas) for what the Cowboys run. Second, he's 24 years old. Elliott hasn't turned 21 yet. He's very similar to Barkevious Mingo in terms of his size and skill set. Mingo was taken with the 6th overall pick, and has yet to make an impact in the league.
• To say that trading down would result in a specific scenario is not accounting for how selecting a player at a different draft slot impacts all of the decisions that follow the selection. With a trade down made at that point, it possibly could result in other moves. Speculating about it is not based in reality - it's just speculation.
• Seemingly, according to the Cowboys draft board, Elliott was the top rated player in the draft. As many people say to take the best player available, how can anyone have a beef with taking the top rated guy on their board? If they took Ramsey, they wouldn't have drafted to their board, which would invalidate their entire draft preparation process. To be fair, they did just that later when they took Maliek Collins over Kendall Fuller or Connor Cook, but I digress.

To me, at the end of the day, the draft is about procuring the best talent that fits your scheme. I have no problem with them taking Elliott where they did - I think the guy is going to be a superstar, and will improve the offense regardless of whether he has the ball in his hands. Ramsey was an intriguing player, but I think he's a safety, and not a corner.

 

[Rogerthat12]

It wasn't really "Elliott vs. pass rusher" though. With a trade down, we could have spent the first two picks on defenders who could start right now, and picked up a RB for nothing.

Elliot was the best available on their board in the top 5, so that argument is moot.

I mentioned pass rushers because that is usually the criticism considering the great need and is often brought up with reference to our second round pick in terms of why we selected Smith at that point, the two pass rushers we liked went right before us accordingly in the second.

Further, they spent their second pick (almost another first round pick) on a defender that can not start right now, that was their decision regardless of how they graded Smith.

They could have traded down in the second and picked up a defender and another possible defender in a later round, they did not!

In addition, free agency is where you find immediate defensive starters typically and little was accomplished save a few modest moves hence my comments.

 

[Sydla]

If the thinking for this team was that they didn't need to spend money on the pass rush this offseason because they were going to develop Russell and Irving into pass rush solutions, holy hell....................

 

[Rogerthat12]

Percy, I hear what you're saying, but if the plan was to win now with Romo, we should've signed more big name free agents in free agency. To me, the draft was more about building for the future instead of win now. If it was, we wouldnt have been willing to give up both Day 2 picks for Lynch.

On top of that, I dont think it's fair to say since this OL is so good, we dont need an elite back. This is the same franchise that had Tony Dorsett and Emmitt Smith run behind some really good o-lines

You are correct, win now means you aggressively address talent in free agency if that were your approach.

Dallas did draft defense with its second, third and fourth round picks but they happened to select a high second rounder who will hopefully be available at a later time but that can not play right now, this is the location of hurt for some.

The draft was not talent deep with defenders in general, it was deep primarily with respect to the interior DT position, hence the Collins pick in round three.

The Zeke pick was their best available in the top 5, that is how you draft and build your team regardless of need.

 

[Nightman]

I'll reiterate a post I made before the draft when the debate was about drafting Elliott at #4.

Why would you take a running back in the first round?

There are 47 players who are considered running backs that are in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Out of that number:

• 26 RB were drafted in the first round of the draft. 55% of the entire total.
• 4 RB were drafted in the second round of the draft.
• 1 RB was drafted in the third round of the draft.
• 1 RB was drafted in the seventh round of the draft.
• 1 RB was drafted in the eighth round of the draft.
• 1 RB was drafted in the ninth round of the draft.
• 2 RB were undrafted free agents.
• 11 RB entered the league before there was a draft.

I had performed this exercise with the QB position, and the numbers strongly favored finding a true franchise guy in the first round (14 of the 32 total were first round selections). With the RB position, it's even more skewed in favor of finding a true, historic difference making RB with a first round pick.

I understand that the passing game is king, and that passing efficiency for/against is the greatest determining statistical factor in wins/losses. But, having a player at the RB position who contributes on all downs, and provides no clue to the opposition of what play is going to be run due to their versatility in all areas will positively impact that efficiency statistic in ways that stats don't tell the whole story. Look back to 2014 - it wasn't just the statisitics of total yards that marked DeMarco Murray's contributions to the Cowboys' offensive attack. It was how well rounded of a player that he was that his presence on the field provided no tip to the defense in what play would be run - he was highly effective as a runner, decoy on play fakes, a pass receiver and a blocker. A player who can contribute in that kind of manner is well worth a first round selection.

Ezekiel Elliott is that kind of player.

I'm sure I read it the first time but thanks for posting it again...the numbers can't be argued...if you want an elite RB you have to pay for it or get really lucky like Tom Brady or Tony Romo

If you don't want an elite RB and want to settle for OK, then why spend so many resources on the OL?...I want to put a true 3 down, home run hitting workhorse behind those monsters

 

[Rogerthat12]

I'm sure I read it the first time but thanks for posting it again...the numbers can't be argued...if you want an elite RB you have to pay for it or get really lucky like Tom Brady or Tony Romo

If you don't want an elite RB and want to settle for OK, then why spend so many resources on the OL?...I want to put a true 3 down, home run hitting workhorse behind those monsters

Further, if passing better is how you ultimately win in the NFL today, Zeke is a significant passing threat in open space with after the catch home run ability!

 

[AsthmaField]

This has been a really interesting thread to me. There are good points on both sides here.

Except for some getting a tad personal, it's an excellent read with a lot of people who really know football.

Threads like this is why I come here every day.

 

[Idgit]

This has been a really interesting thread to me. There are good points on both sides here.

Except for some getting a tad personal, it's an excellent read with a lot of people who really know football.

Threads like this is why I come here every day.

You're welcome.