Russia invades Ukraine *** READ RULES IN POST 6 BEFORE POSTING ***

[MichaelWinicki]

As someone else pointed out earlier in this thread...

Even with the gobs of bad that have come with this event, there is one small element that is good.

And that is the world now has a well qualified "heel" to rally against.

As anyone who follows professional wrestling–If you don't have a great "heel" you don't have a show.

Putin is doing all on his own what hundreds of friendly-meetings, phone-calls and zoom's couldn't do and that's to unite a big part of the world against one very much hated heel.

 

[Roadtrip635]

EU says it will fund arms deliveries to Ukraine and hit Putin with new sanctions, including a ban on Russian state media



The 27-member bloc will ban Russian state-owned media outlets Russia Today and Sputnik from its airwaves, as well. “We are developing tools to ban their toxic and harmful disinformation in Europe,” von der Leyen said.
In addition, the EU will impose new sanctions on Belarus’ controlling regime led by Alexander Lukashenko, which von der Leyen called “the other aggressor in this war.”

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/27/eu-...kraine-and-hit-russia-with-new-sanctions.html

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Putin knew exactly what NATO would do with the economic sanctions. When has that ever worked? Iran? N. Korea?

This is a move by a very small rich and powerful group and sanctions cannot touch them. Those at the very top are impervious to punishment. The people might suffer and if this drags out, we might feel the pinch in our wallets but those at the top will not feel a thing.

Even our own leaders are admitting this will have little effect on Putin and his gang. They're criminals, they know how to hide money. And they had a head start.

This is punishing the average Russian and that in turn will continually ratchet up the heat against Putin and his entourage.

Also keep in mind the decision-makers and influencers in Iran & North Korea weren't or aren't as likely to play out of their country's sandbox when it came to investments– These Russian big-wigs have their hands in things all over the globe including the US and Europe.

 

[CouchCoach]

If true... This is a BIG deal. Not just the amount of missiles being sent but who's sending them.

Putin threated Finland and Sweden, some don't respond to threats by bullies like they think they will.

I think Putin expected this to be a showdown between him and the US and he knows the US doesn't have the stomach for another war. But he's being isolated with fly space and thought there would be more Russia leaning Ukrainians but they've pretty much put the world on notice "we're not easy".

I do not think Putin expected these people to be the world's poster child for bravery, courage and a fine example of what sovereignty means. I also think the world is sending them courage back in the form of their admiration for heroism and sacrifice.

I also don't think Putin expected Russia to be wearing a hat so black. The world is hating on Russia and pouring their vodka down the drain.

There is another element to this that I think Putin underestimated. The world is angry and looking to take that out on someone. His timing of this isn't good.

 

[ShortRound]

Oof

 

[CouchCoach]

This is punishing the average Russian and that in turn will continually ratchet up the heat against Putin and his entourage.

Also keep in mind the decision-makers and influencers in Iran & North Korea weren't or aren't as likely to play out of their country's sandbox when it came to investments– These Russian big-wigs have their hands in things all over the globe including the US and Europe.

They also have the most effective hacking machine on the planet.

 

[Roadtrip635]

I think Putin intended to "Get In, Get Control, Get Out" before crap started hitting HIS fan.

But that timeframe is shot... Thanks to the intestinal fortitude of the citizenry and leadership of Ukraine.

War isn't all about the guns, tanks and casualties.

There's a nuance to it.

Here's hoping Ukraine can hold on because I think what's going on behind the scenes has the potential to end this with Putin failing in reaching his goals.

I think he really underestimated Zelensky, he probably thought this guy is just a comedian/actor turned politician and wouldn't have the stomach to lead and just surrender. Instead, he's rallied not just his people but the world against Putin and Russia. Putin has helped turn him into a hero and if he kills him now, turns him into a martyr which make it even worse for him.

 

[Montanalo]

By the way the Russians went in and have fought, do you know if they think this was the plan all along? Get in, don't do anything too destructive, make a deal

Yes, that's their view.

 

[Bigdog]

Hope you are right about 1 but I just read that the Ukraine’s President just pulled out of peace talks because Russia’s wasn’t even neutral or compromising.

My bad. Actually they haven’t pulled. The Ukraine President just didn’t like it being held in Belarus.

 

[Roadtrip635]

 

[VaqueroTD]

National Review has some great military analysis on this conflict. Here's another good one about why the Russian military is struggling.

Russia-Ukraine Conflict: Why the Russians Are Struggling | National Review

 

[Montanalo]

I think he really underestimated Zelensky, he probably thought this guy is just a comedian/actor turned politician and wouldn't have the stomach to lead and just surrender. Instead, he's rallied not just his people but the world against Putin and Rusia. Putin has helped turn him into a hero and if he kills him now, turns him into a martyr which make it even worse for him.

Even my Russian in-laws applaud Zelensky... and that's saying something.

 

[VaqueroTD]

The forums and comments sections in National Review are blowing Rubio off for his comments the last 2 days about Putin not being all there and info he can't share, but I don't think he would say this light-heartedly. Very careless of him if so.

 

[VaqueroTD]

Big, big risk.

Not only do you risk a nuclear exchange, you alienating the average Russian citizen against NATO (and the countries making up NATO) and could influence China to even more so support Putin's war.

I don't think NATO troops marching into Ukraine is the answer.

Also I do not think NATO is ready from an infrastructure standpoint to do that... Just as it took Russia several weeks to deploy nearly 200,000, you're looking at the same for NATO to do that same– Probably even much longer because each country would have to mobilize resources in order to do this.

Agreed. Let Putin and Russia self-destruct. They will eventually win, but boy do they look bad in the world court and have everyone on edge. Even China has to be looking at the reaction and wondering if this is killing their shot at Taiwan. Let's just hope everyone stays cool with the red button option.

 

[VaqueroTD]

Watching some military analysts on ABC who are applauding the Ukrainians strategy. They purposefully let the Russians blitzkrieg so they could come behind and destroy the logistics networks such as the refueling to keep this front moving. Saying it's not just the spirit of the Ukrainians it's some damn good military tactics.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

National Review has some great military analysis on this conflict. Here's another good one about why the Russian military is struggling.

Russia-Ukraine Conflict: Why the Russians Are Struggling | National Review

Great article...

Some terrific points:

Yeah, stunning that Russia has not gained air-superiority as of right now. Huge surprise.

As I posted a earlier the power of these single person or small group anti-tank missiles is astonishing. The seemingly willingness of the Russians to drive down urban or semi-urban streets in "convey fashion" is head shaking. This ain't like the early WW2 days where you would set up an anti-tank gun in a way that offered some protection (good luck!) and would allow for beating a hasty retreat after a couple shots (before your opponent zero's in on your location with high-explosive rounds).

The ability to "hide & move" with these missiles is game changing against armour in an urban environment.

Especially more so, when Russian infantry do not seem to want to get out of their armoured personnel carriers and engage the Ukrainians.

I just think many Russian soldiers simply do not believe in their mission.

Astounding that Russian columns are running out of fuel. That's a throw-back to WWII when both German and Soviet campaigns were brought to a standstill simply because the supply chain was broken or non-existent–But that was almost 80 years ago!

 

[darthseinfeld]

Great article...

Some terrific points:

Yeah, stunning that Russia has not gained air-superiority as of right now. Huge surprise.

As I posted a earlier the power of these single person or small group anti-tank missiles is astonishing. The seemingly willingness of the Russians to drive down urban or semi-urban streets in "convey fashion" is head shaking. This ain't like the early WW2 days where you would set up an anti-tank gun in a way that offered some protection (good luck!) and would allow for beating a hasty retreat after a couple shots (before your opponent zero's in on your location with high-explosive rounds).

The ability to "hide & move" with these missiles is game changing against armour in an urban environment.

Especially more so, when Russian infantry do not seem to want to get out of their armoured personnel carriers and engage the Ukrainians.

I just think many Russian soldiers simply do not believe in their mission.

Astounding that Russian columns are running out of fuel. That's a throw-back to WWII when both German and Soviet campaigns were brought to a standstill simply because the supply chain was broken or non-existent–But that was almost 80 years ago!

Force multipliers for the defensive in urban combat can be exponential if you know what you are doing and have some ingenuity. The Ukranians seem to be well schooled. Maybe they should start showing MOUT schools in those graphs of military assets on the news

 

[Reality]

If true... This is a BIG deal. Not just the amount of missiles being sent but who's sending them.

Yeah, I am actually surprised by this. It makes you wonder if they are seriously going to consider joining NATO at some point in the future.

 

[Reality]

Yeah, stunning that Russia has not gained air-superiority as of right now. Huge surprise!

That is what I thought Russia would do when Ukraine started having some success. It would seem that the AA weapons the Ukrainians have must be having an impact, especially given how many Russian planes they claim to have destroyed.

 

[Flamma]

I think Putin intended to "Get In, Get Control, Get Out" before crap started hitting HIS fan.

But that timeframe is shot... Thanks to the intestinal fortitude of the citizenry and leadership of Ukraine.

War isn't all about the guns, tanks and casualties.

There's a nuance to it.

Here's hoping Ukraine can hold on because I think what's going on behind the scenes has the potential to end this with Putin failing in reaching his goals.

Sure. But what was Saddam's intention when he invaded Kuwait? Did we care? Our hesitancy is only because Russia has nukes. NATO can call their bluff. Will they? I doubt it. We'll just hope the Ukraine can make it very difficult for Russia and try to supply them the best we can. But either way, more countries are going to try to join NATO because of this.