Russia invades Ukraine *** READ RULES IN POST 6 BEFORE POSTING ***

[RJ_MacReady]

I have to partially disagree with you. That was certainly true in the past, but Anti-American and Anti-NATO opinions in Turkey have been on the rise for several years now and it's clear that their growing relationship with Russia now fuels a lot of their actions. They're not the ally that they once were. Both sides have done things that ticked off the other. Turkey was even kicked out of the F-35 program a few years ago.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/after-six-decades-turkey-is-now-a-us-ally-in-name-only

Yeah, I had forgotten about us kicking them off the F-35s. You are correct in that we certainly don't have the relationship we used to have since before Erdogan took over. The Military Coup several years back did no one any favors, since Erdogan probably thought we were in some part behind it? I was working at TACC at the time (Tanker/Airlift Control Center) and we had a helluva task evacuating active duty family members (and their stupid pets) out of Turkey during that coup. Since then, only our Active duty are stationed there now. But their importance is still there. We still use an airbase in their country to house our tankers and still count on their airspace as one of the main gateways into the M.E. I believe, but haven't really researched, that Turkey also controls entry/exit into the black sea. Overall, the country is just in a very advantageous location.

Yes, Erdogan is playing both sides to his benefit:
https://www.aviacionline.com/2022/0...-nato-membership-turkey-wants-its-f-35s-back/

 

[Reality]

I have to partially disagree with you. That was certainly true in the past, but Anti-American and Anti-NATO opinions in Turkey have been on the rise for several years now and it's clear that their growing relationship with Russia now fuels a lot of their actions. They're not the ally that they once were. Both sides have done things that ticked off the other. Turkey was even kicked out of the F-35 program a few years ago.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/after-six-decades-turkey-is-now-a-us-ally-in-name-only

I think Turkey, Erdogan especially, is worried about Turkey's best interest. I do not think it's about loyalty or dislike for him.

I could be wrong but my guess is the main issue he has with the US and probably some European countries is that we worked with the Kurish rebels in Afghanistan and the Kurdish have been fighting with Turkey.

I think this is less about Sweden, Finland or Russia and more about Erdogan seeing this as an opportunity of leverage to get things he wants while also presenting himself for political gains as a powerful person who can impact the largest military alliance with many of the powerful countries in the world.

The fact that Turkey sent drones to the Ukraine and drones have caused huge losses to Russia's military suggests it is not about Russia.

It's an opportunity for Erdogan and he is simply taking advantage of it like many country leaders would do in his place. We may not like that he is doing it, but I ultimately think they will find a way to get his support.

 

[triplets_93]

Ukrainians Wipe Out Russian Base Hidden In Trees

Russia invaded Ukraine in what Putin initially called a “special military operation” to “demilitarize and denazify” Ukraine.

https://www.zenger.news/2022/05/27/ukrainians-wipe-out-russian-base-hidden-in-trees/

 

[triplets_93]

 

[triplets_93]

 

[jnday]

My pleasure!

- This is interesting question. In the general debate Nato discussion in Finland has been stuck for decades. Usually politicians and citizens have been thinking that we can join if something happens and there is no need to join earlier. Also there has been A LOT disinformation going on what happens if Finland joins. How much it cost, should we send our sons and daughters to the war other side of world against their will etc. I'm pretty sure that big part this disinformation is coming from Kreml. In February when Russia started this we finally started speak what Nato really is and a lot of people got facts not lies.
Also big change was when end of last year Russia said that Finland can't join Nato. So actually they said that independent country cannot make own decisions.

- When gas and oil exports ends it is not a very big thing but it definitely raise some prices. Overall for example in the general household using gas is very rarely these days. Finland and Estonia have long planned to rent LNG (liquefied natural gas) ship so we can together get gas and storage it completely without Russia.

- I would say yes. Biggest part Finnish peoples thinks now that Russia is a threat, but that doesn't mean that we afraid them. I think that way also and with Nato threat is getting smaller. It has been always very clear why we have an army. Old Finnish jokes says that "Finland's enemy comes from the east and if it comes other directions it has flanked". Everybody now just want to maximize security.

Cool! Glad you liked and welcome again!

If someone is interested this Battlefield 2020 short movie from Finnish Defense Forces is excellent and high quality! It shows one scenario how war can start in Finland. Every person this movie is real soldiers, real newsreaders etc. no actors.
Also English subtitles are available.
Taistelukenttä 2020 | Slagfält 2020 | Battlefield 2020 - YouTube


And by the way. Finland is not part of Scandinavia so no Vikings or mountains here!

So Finland ducked out of all the financial responsibilities over the years and decided to wait until Russia became a threat before wanting to join NATO. If I had to vote to let them in NATO, I don’t know if I could vote to allow it. It seems like another country that wants protection from the US, but don’t want to pay for it.

 

[Sarek]

Stopped following this war awhile ago, both countries still looking like rookies? Can't wait to see what this rebuild price tag is going to look like when it's all said and done. If the US wants to pay for a Ukraine rebuild then they can start by rebuilding my house in New Jersey first.

 

[Reality]

 

[Ranched]

Stopped following this war awhile ago, both countries still looking like rookies? Can't wait to see what this rebuild price tag is going to look like when it's all said and done. If the US wants to pay for a Ukraine rebuild then they can start by rebuilding my house in New Jersey first.

Putin will be dead by then & currently the least from his mind. What's scary? Knowing he doesn't have much time left on this planet could persuade him to push that nuclear button.

 

[Tuomas]

So Finland ducked out of all the financial responsibilities over the years and decided to wait until Russia became a threat before wanting to join NATO. If I had to vote to let them in NATO, I don’t know if I could vote to allow it. It seems like another country that wants protection from the US, but don’t want to pay for it.

Interesting opinion after years of close economic and military cooperation with Finland and US. For example Finnish Defence Forces has trained for years US soldiers how to battle in arctic conditions. Would be interesting to know what do you mean "don't want to pay for it" ?
In Finland nobody wants US military base and permanent troops here. We can handle ourselves. Nato just gives a higher threshold for Russian attack and make training cooperation easier so Finland can teach more things to US/NATO and same in reverse.

Nato's target is that members spend at least 2% of GDP on defense. Currently only US, Greece, Estonia, UK and Poland is above that. Before Russia started 2022 invasion, Finland % was 2,2. With that 2,2 Finland would be third only US and Greece spending more. This spring Finnish Government gave more money to defense 200 million yearly increase + 1,5 billion instantly. With those numbers our percent 2,2 is much more higher.

 

[triplets_93]

Ukrainian troops have slowed down their liberation of Russian-occupied territories as they lack fire-power and manpower, Zelenskiy said in an interview with the Financial Times, according to a transcript of his remarks provided by the president’s office.

Ukraine needs 10 times the amount of weapons and people to move forward with its counteroffensive, he said. Even so, Zelenskiy reiterated his country needs to defeat Russia on the battlefield. Having Russian troops pushed back to their Feb. 24 positions would only be a temporary victory as Ukraine has to regain control over all of its territories, he said.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ussia-bans-yellen-fink-kyiv-eyes-grain-outlet
========================
We have weapons, but, where are "the people" he speaks of going to come from??

 

[morasp]

Ukrainian troops are a week from finishing a crash course on operating M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems, or HIMARS. The systems are donated by the U.S. and there will be more to follow once Ukrainian forces demonstrate their effective use in combat, a senior U.S. defense official said on June 14.

Colin Kahl, U.S. Under Secretary of Defense for Policy, called the first four HIMARS systems promised to Ukraine, along with 227mm Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS) rockets they'll be supplied with, an “initial tranche. It is “absolutely fair” to characterize the long-range rocket artillery systems as the first of many the U.S. will send to Ukraine’s aid, Kahl said at the Center For A New American Security (CNAS) think tank's National Security Conference in Washington, D.C.

Ukraine Situation Report: More HIMARS On The Way Once Ukraine Shows It Can Use Them In Combat (thedrive.com)

 

[triplets_93]

 

[triplets_93]

G-7 leaders confer with Zelenskyy, prep new aid for Ukraine

https://apnews.com/article/russia-u...oris-johnson-3437ebe5d3e167e399af96665d1354b6

Biden is expected to announce the U.S, is purchasing NASAMS, a Norwegian-developed anti-aircraft system, to provide medium- to long-range defense, according to the person familiar with the matter, who spoke on the condition of anonymity. NASAMS is the same system used by the U.S. to protect the sensitive airspace around the White House and U.S. Capitol in Washington.

Additional aid includes more ammunition for Ukrainian artillery, as well as counter-battery radars, to support its efforts against the Russian assault in the Donbas, the person said. Biden is also announcing a $7.5 billion commitment to help Ukraine’s government meet its expenses, as part of a drawdown of the $40 billion military and economic aid package he signed into law last month.

 

[triplets_93]

 

[triplets_93]

Russian Gold...where will it go now???

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Russian Gold...where will it go now???

There’s only seven countries that have the collective power to fight against a powerful country gone rogue like Russia.

 

[Pass2Run]

Putin will be dead by then & currently the least from his mind. What's scary? Knowing he doesn't have much time left on this planet could persuade him to push that nuclear button.

Very true.

Putin does strike me as the kind of guy who may do that as well.

 

[jnday]

Interesting opinion after years of close economic and military cooperation with Finland and US. For example Finnish Defence Forces has trained for years US soldiers how to battle in arctic conditions. Would be interesting to know what do you mean "don't want to pay for it" ?
In Finland nobody wants US military base and permanent troops here. We can handle ourselves. Nato just gives a higher threshold for Russian attack and make training cooperation easier so Finland can teach more things to US/NATO and same in reverse.

Nato's target is that members spend at least 2% of GDP on defense. Currently only US, Greece, Estonia, UK and Poland is above that. Before Russia started 2022 invasion, Finland % was 2,2. With that 2,2 Finland would be third only US and Greece spending more. This spring Finnish Government gave more money to defense 200 million yearly increase + 1,5 billion instantly. With those numbers our percent 2,2 is much more higher.

Yes, we have been on very good terms with Finland, but it is obvious from the timing that Finland is looking for security after seeing the situation in the Ukraine. The money that Finland currently spends on defense is not much from what they will gain from NATO membership. Considering the vast amount that the US spends on defense, all the NATO members benefits greatly from being in the same organization as the US. It says a lot more about the US spending than it says about NATO members defense spending.

 

[triplets_93]

Putin dares the West to fight, one day after top Moscow leader threatens to take back Alaska

https://justthenews.com/government/...y-after-top-moscow-leader-threatens-take-back