Russia invades Ukraine *** READ RULES IN POST 6 BEFORE POSTING ***

[Montanalo]

I am so puzzled as to why the Russian people don’t rise up, or the elites don’t overthrow Putin ? They can’t kill everybody can they ? In other countries, even Iran, people do mass demonstrations to try to challenge the rulers.

It’s obvious and disgusting that Putin and his cronies have stolen all the money and it leaves the country and military in a shambles. And to make up for the underfunded military due to Putin’s corruption, ordinary people are now being literally forced to be cannon foster and die.

It seems the Russian people either accept it or leave the country ? The Russian people are a great and courageous people based on their art, literature, and incredible valor in WW2. Can you help me understand?

There is long-standing aversion to speaking out publicly against the government. It is almost baked into their DNA.

Although it would be easy to assume this is a figment of the old Stalinist days, the fact is that even during the Czars' rule people would disappear for openly questioning the goverment.

Taking it a step further, our family members in Russia are even reluctant to speak their mind on a telephone call or text message.

That aside, there are those in Russia that hold a "Russia vs the world" view. One of the reasons Putin was so very popular at the beginning: he promised to return Russia to it's former glory and position in the world.

Hope this helps and, mind you, these are just my opinions based on living and working there as well as marrying a Russian.

 

[MaineBoy]

There is long-standing aversion to speaking out publicly against the government. It is almost baked into their DNA.

Although it would be easy to assume this is a figment of the old Stalinist days, the fact is that even during the Czars' rule people would disappear for openly questioning the goverment.

Taking it a step further, our family members in Russia are even reluctant to speak their mind on a telephone call or text message.

That aside, there are those in Russia that hold a "Russia vs the world" view. One of the reasons Putin was so very popular at the beginning: he promised to return Russia to it's former glory and position in the world.

Hope this helps and, mind you, these are just my opinions based on living and working there as well as marrying a Russian.

It does help. With my limited USA perspective from growing up in USA it’s hard to imagine the experiences the Russian people have gone through. I would guess that losing 50-60 million people in WW2 didn’t help them trust outsiders.

 

[John813]

There is long-standing aversion to speaking out publicly against the government. It is almost baked into their DNA.

Although it would be easy to assume this is a figment of the old Stalinist days, the fact is that even during the Czars' rule people would disappear for openly questioning the goverment.

Taking it a step further, our family members in Russia are even reluctant to speak their mind on a telephone call or text message.

That aside, there are those in Russia that hold a "Russia vs the world" view. One of the reasons Putin was so very popular at the beginning: he promised to return Russia to it's former glory and position in the world.

Hope this helps and, mind you, these are just my opinions based on living and working there as well as marrying a Russian.

This is spot on. The older generation in Russia still loves Putin.
Very nationalist mindset.
Wife's family is a mix of Russians/Ukrainians. I mean not too long ago there was no border separating the countries and they always went back and forth between Odessa and Moscow.

 

[teamrican1]

I am so puzzled as to why the Russian people don’t rise up, or the elites don’t overthrow Putin ? They can’t kill everybody can they ? In other countries, even Iran, people do mass demonstrations to try to challenge the rulers.

It’s obvious and disgusting that Putin and his cronies have stolen all the money and it leaves the country and military in a shambles. And to make up for the underfunded military due to Putin’s corruption, ordinary people are now being literally forced to be cannon foster and die.

It seems the Russian people either accept it or leave the country ? The Russian people are a great and courageous people based on their art, literature, and incredible valor in WW2. Can you help me understand?

To understand Russia you must understand Russian history. Objectively speaking, Putin is probably one of the three most successful world leaders of the past 100 years (Deng Xiaoping and Lee Kuan Yew would be the other two). He took a nation that was literally on the brink of complete and utter societal collapse and brought it back. "Shambles" is what Russia was in back in the 1990's. The economy was a wreck. The crime rate rivaled the worst urban ghettos in America. And life expectancy was a full 10 years than it is today. For Americans, we've seen nothing but steady decline in our living standards and overall quality of life since the 1990's. For Russians, it is the exact opposite. Russians view Putin as a savior.

And it is not just "Wow, Putin has really been a good leader" type of thing, but there is also a strong feeling in Russia that there is no one who can fill his shoes. This is perhaps the greatest criticism one could level at Putin- thus far he has not produced an obvious heir apparent. Perhaps the current war will help produce such a man.

 

[MaineBoy]

To understand Russia you must understand Russian history. Objectively speaking, Putin is probably one of the three most successful world leaders of the past 100 years (Deng Xiaoping and Lee Kuan Yew would be the other two). He took a nation that was literally on the brink of complete and utter societal collapse and brought it back. "Shambles" is what Russia was in back in the 1990's. The economy was a wreck. The crime rate rivaled the worst urban ghettos in America. And life expectancy was a full 10 years than it is today. For Americans, we've seen nothing but steady decline in our living standards and overall quality of life since the 1990's. For Russians, it is the exact opposite. Russians view Putin as a savior.

And it is not just "Wow, Putin has really been a good leader" type of thing, but there is also a strong feeling in Russia that there is no one who can fill his shoes. This is perhaps the greatest criticism one could level at Putin- thus far he has not produced an obvious heir apparent. Perhaps the current war will help produce such a man.

I would beg to differ. If Putin is so popular how come he has had to take such repressive measures ? A 10 year prison sentence to say something truthful about the war ? He has had to muzzle the free press and resorts to killing or jailing the opposition. And after all those measures, there are still some people who try to oppose. I think there was a time they liked Putin when he brought order to the chaos. But then when he turned to corruption and making himself a dictator things changed.

 

[teamrican1]

I would beg to differ. If Putin is so popular how come he has had to take such repressive measures ? A 10 year prison sentence to say something truthful about the war ? He has had to muzzle the free press and resorts to killing or jailing the opposition. And after all those measures, there are still some people who try to oppose. I think there was a time they liked Putin when he brought order to the chaos. But then when he turned to corruption and making himself a dictator things changed.

Russia has never had free speech, so I don't know what you expect there. Russia's speech codes against the war are far less repressive than Ukraine, and unlike Ukraine the largest opposition party in Russia has not been banned so clearly he hasn't had to take particularly repressive measures when compared to the country he is fighting.

A lot of the reports of Putin "killing" people are just nonsense and on the same level as the Ghost of Kiev. But not all of them. You have to remember that when Putin took power, the most powerful elements in the country, in order, were the Oligarchs, the Russo-Jewish Mafia, and the Federal Government. The former two organizations were among the most violent organizations on the face of earth. To get Russia to where it is today, Putin had to be a hard person. There was simply no other way of doing it. Russians understand this.

 

[Montanalo]

Russia has never had free speech, so I don't know what you expect there. Russia's speech codes against the war are far less repressive than Ukraine, and unlike Ukraine the largest opposition party in Russia has not been banned so clearly he hasn't had to take particularly repressive measures when compared to the country he is fighting.

A lot of the reports of Putin "killing" people are just nonsense and on the same level as the Ghost of Kiev. But not all of them. You have to remember that when Putin took power, the most powerful elements in the country, in order, were the Oligarchs, the Russo-Jewish Mafia, and the Federal Government. The former two organizations were among the most violent organizations on the face of earth. To get Russia to where it is today, Putin had to be a hard person. There was simply no other way of doing it. Russians understand this.

Sounds like you have a fairly intimate knowledge if Russia. Are you a historian, Russian, lived or worked there? Just curious.

My wife is Russian and I worked in the FSU for years. We still have family there and, the war notwithstanding, still travel there.

 

[teamrican1]

It is unwise to get too personal on the internet. But, yes, I do have a fairly intimate knowledge of Russian history. I haven't been back to Russia since World Cup '18 but I live in Tbilisi at present and have plenty of Russian friends.

 

[Hoofbite]

So how far does this complete disaster go? Is there any endpoint for Russia?

 

[nobody]

So how far does this complete disaster go? Is there any endpoint for Russia?

We can hope it's not:

 

[Montanalo]

It is unwise to get too personal on the internet. But, yes, I do have a fairly intimate knowledge of Russian history. I haven't been back to Russia since World Cup '18 but I live in Tbilisi at present and have plenty of Russian friends.

Spent quite a bit of time around Tbilisi

 

[triplets_93]

We can hope it's not:

IF Russia blames Israel for bombing the gas pipeline, then Russia may attack Israel, and so WWIII, and the End Times would being in earnest!!

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

To understand Russia you must understand Russian history. Objectively speaking, Putin is probably one of the three most successful world leaders of the past 100 years (Deng Xiaoping and Lee Kuan Yew would be the other two). He took a nation that was literally on the brink of complete and utter societal collapse and brought it back. "Shambles" is what Russia was in back in the 1990's. The economy was a wreck. The crime rate rivaled the worst urban ghettos in America. And life expectancy was a full 10 years than it is today. For Americans, we've seen nothing but steady decline in our living standards and overall quality of life since the 1990's. For Russians, it is the exact opposite. Russians view Putin as a savior.

What in the world are you basing that gross generality off of?

 

[triplets_93]

Russian natural gas lines... some go through Ukraine, others don't, but the ramifications to Germany cannot be understated...

Germany's Catastrophic Gas Problem

 

[Reality]

 

[Montanalo]

Good narrative, however the animation appears to be made by the South Park crew. Shouldn't really joke about the situation.

 

[triplets_93]

Russia-Ukraine live updates: Key bridge between Russia and Crimea damaged, Ukraine says

Ukraine said the Kerch Bridge had been a symbol of Russian power in Crimea.

https://abcnews.go.com/International/live-updates/russia-ukraine/?id=88905005

The UK Daily Mail coverage with lots of pictures and backstory...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/br...-key-bridge-linking-Crimea-Putins-Russia.html

 

[JJHLH1]

The Kerch Bridge explosion was impressive, and puts even more stress on Russia’s poor logistics and supply lines.

 

[Cowpolk]

The Kerch Bridge explosion was impressive, and puts even more stress on Russia’s poor logistics and supply lines.

I think that one was luck I want to see them do that a gain maybe even a 3 peat

 

[triplets_93]

Putin denounces Kerch Bridge attack "a terrorist act" by Kyiv

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/...st-hit-kerch-bridge-linking-crimea-and-russia