CFZ Salary cap myths and other misunderstandings of player pay

[Flamma]

what is a maxed out contract? this is not the NBA. or MLB

Well, right now I'd say it's 55M for a QB. And 35M for a WR. Most QBs and WRs getting paid will top off at those prices. When a special one comes along, that's when it resets.

 

[Flamma]

I guess in the end, we don't have to honor it and tell him he signed the deal and you're not getting anything extra

Right. We also don't know if Lamb would have done that.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

A player under contract should not hold out. If you want FO accountability...then players need to have it too.

CeeDee is under contract. Get your butt on the field.

It's up to the FO to just say no to extreme contracts. If the NFL is so rich...ditch the cap.

An optional solution is for NFL to contract the players with their pool of money...under a union type structure with performance bonuses.

 

[fivetwos]

Someone just asked what maxing out a contract means. Mahomes did not max out his contracts and has 3 super bowls in 4 years.

Listen, these guys are getting generational life changing wealth. Why not get a couple super bowls while you're at it? However, to do that, you must sign "team friendly" deals.

So, how do you define "team friendly"? It's not about the money so much as it is about signing a contract that a team can work w/. Hill refused and KC had to let him go. Aiyuk is refusing, and SF is saying no.

Signing WR's to big money, no matter how good they are, is the way to not win super bowls. Wrong position to spend money on.

I don’t disagree, but I do think teams need at least one dynamic type of WR to win.

They aren’t overly difficult to find in the draft if you’re picking high enough….and when you get your hands on one, maybe make an extra attempt to win while they are under control.

They had their shot the last few years and blew it. That’s probably what the bug up Jerry’s behind is all about. He knows it.

The part that irritates ME is that they avoided free agents so they didn’t have cap problems and they were short on the field as a result….yet they still cry about the cap.

 

[stiletto]

A player under contract should not hold out. If you want FO accountability...then players need to have it too.

CeeDee is under contract. Get your butt on the field.

It's up to the FO to just say no to extreme contracts. If the NFL is so rich...ditch the cap.

An optional solution is for NFL to contract the players with their pool of money...under a union type structure with performance bonuses.

I agree for the most part but if you got a rookie that has generally out performed his contract his first 3 years, why not reward him with an upgraded contract (if he'll take it). Somewhere in the middle of top of position and his rookie deal? At least it would be cheaper to do that. Should've done it with both Dak and Ceedee. Would've avoided Dak's idiotic 1st deal and now the mess with CeeDee.

 

[kskboys]

I don’t disagree, but I do think teams need at least one dynamic type of WR to win.

They aren’t overly difficult to find in the draft if you’re picking high enough….and when you get your hands on one, maybe make an extra attempt to win while they are under control.

They had their shot the last few years and blew it. That’s probably what the bug up Jerry’s behind is all about. He knows it.

The part that irritates ME is that they avoided free agents so they didn’t have cap problems and they were short on the field as a result….yet they still cry about the cap.

Not dynamic, you need route runners/chain movers. You can find a #3 speed WR to stretch the D in rounds 3-6. No reason to pay huge money to one.

To sign FA's you need a GM who is adept at player evaluations. We...............don't.

 

[kskboys]

A player under contract should not hold out. If you want FO accountability...then players need to have it too.

CeeDee is under contract. Get your butt on the field.

It's up to the FO to just say no to extreme contracts. If the NFL is so rich...ditch the cap.

An optional solution is for NFL to contract the players with their pool of money...under a union type structure with performance bonuses.

Yeah, the current system is falling apart.

 

[Creeper]

With all the big talk about contracts for Dak, Cedee Lamb, and at some point Micah Parsons, there is so much misunderstanding and myth about market value, ”greed”, etc. The biggest myth so often thrown about is that the players are greedy and if they would just take a “team friendly” deal (in and of itself also a myth) we could sign more players. That’s just not a fair assessment of what the cap is and how it works.

In 2023, Sports Illustrated published a good article by Andrew Brandt, a former Green Bay VP of player personnel who has negotiated numerous NFL contracts. The article is designed to separate fact from fiction regarding what the cap actually is and isn’t. The article is free - here’s the link: https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/05/17/nfl-business-football-explaining-salary-cap
It‘s a good read if you want to have a better view of how player salaries really impact the cap.

Just cherry picking a couple of key points from the SI article:

• “Cash is real money; the cap is simply accounting. Cash is what a player will actually receive in a contract. Cap is a mechanism of compliance, a way NFL teams account for a contract over the life of the deal.” What really matters in these player deals is the guaranteed amounts of cash and how long they can take to pay it out.
• “Elite players should take less to help the team. NO!” Brandt says the call for players to take less money is ridiculous. It is the owner’s responsibility to make the cap work, not the players.

One thought I’ve had for years: Whose job is it to manage the cap responsibly? Is it the players? Or the front office?

If our front office expects the players to help them manage the cap efficiently we are doomed. There are multiple NFL teams right now who are paying more stars at market value than the Cowboys and competing for championships.

The bickering over money at this point is silly. NFL stars are paid market value. Not a penny less. If you want them, you have to pay them market value. The Cowboys front office expecting their best players to take less than market value is crazy. If you want those players on your team, you pay them market value. If you don’t want to pay them market value, then you trade them or lose them in Free agency. That simple.

Valid points. Of course it is the front office's responsibility to manage the CAP. The problem is, even if one owner holds firm on the value of a player, there are 31 other owners and one or two of them may be willing give a player more money than he is thought to be worth. It happens every year when we see a contract announced and we shake our heads. This year we saw Trevor Lawrence get a huge deal, but based on what? Potential, whatever that is?

I don't blame any player for taking as much money as the owners are willing to pay him. Players are obligated to ask for what they can get. Where I disagree is that greed is not involved on both sides, the players and the owners. I don't hear the players asking the owners to join them in taking less money so they can lower ticket prices for the fans? What's missing is no one seems to care about what the fans are being asked to pay, and at the root of all this is, without the fans, the owners and players would get nothing.

We are talking about QBs making $60 million per year which is an enormous amount of money, but a fraction of what the league is making overall. Yet the league is still looking to expand markets overseas to make even more money. That is greed. Think of the NFL has a society of sorts. Everyone in that society operates under the same rules and greed is apparently one of the fundamental rules of the league. Over the years we are seeing less football, more commercial breaks which rakes in even more money for the NFL owners and players. I believe at some point the NFL will break their product and suffer a loss of fans and revenue. It may take another 10 years but I don't think the cycle of greed can continue forever unabated.

Simply put when billions of dollars are being made and that is not enough, you have to consider greed is a factor.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

I agree for the most part but if you got a rookie that has generally out performed his contract his first 3 years, why not reward him with an upgraded contract (if he'll take it). Somewhere in the middle of top of position and his rookie deal? At least it would be cheaper to do that. Should've done it with both Dak and Ceedee. Would've avoided Dak's idiotic 1st deal and now the mess with CeeDee.

The only reason I can think of is he might not perform well under that new contract.

I'm thinking incremental "flat rate" with preset performance bonuses is the way to go.

Stabilize and standardize contracts, the way cap was meant to but never did.

 

[atlantacowboy]

The problem here is that this group of players folded like cheap chairs in a home playoff game 7 months ago in spite of their gaudy regular season numbers. So, it is not unreasonable to question their ability to win big games and subsequently their REAL value. This is particularly true in the case of Dak who sports a 2-5 playoff record having never advanced the team past a divisional round playoff game. So, if the Cowboys don't think Dak is worth what he wants and may have to replace him in 2025, then putting the breaks on making CD the highest paid WR in the NFL makes sense. The cowboys always have the option of franchising CD in 2025 until they figure out the QB spot.

What bothers me most about Dak is his comment about having to get the most money possible b/c he owes it to the other QBs around the league..... which is ridiculous. If he owes anybody anything, it is the Dallas Cowboys, particularly considering his playoff flop and the fact he earns an ADDITIONAL 50+M a year in endorsement simply for being the teams QB. He could take 45M and still net more money than going somewhere else. But as he stated, the contract isn't about him. It is about the other QBs. I guess that makes Brady and Mahomes the most selfish ah@les the league has ever seen. lol

 

[fivetwos]

Not dynamic, you need route runners/chain movers. You can find a #3 speed WR to stretch the D in rounds 3-6. No reason to pay huge money to one.

To sign FA's you need a GM who is adept at player evaluations. We...............don't.

The evaluations are really thee biggest problem, even more so than Jerry’s mouth and undermining of the staff.

Even if McClay is doing the actual evaluations, a guy like Stephen comes in and says yay or nay, based only on cost. Has no idea about the player’s ability or how he fits and why.

The GM by committee thing is a mess IMO, and it’s all about Jerry being able to say it was all him should they happen to win.

 

[Flamma]

Valid points. Of course it is the front office's responsibility to manage the CAP. The problem is, even if one owner holds firm on the value of a player, there are 31 other owners and one or two of them may be willing give a player more money than he is thought to be worth. It happens every year when we see a contract announced and we shake our heads. This year we saw Trevor Lawrence get a huge deal, but based on what? Potential, whatever that is?

I don't blame any player for taking as much money as the owners are willing to pay him. Players are obligated to ask for what they can get. Where I disagree is that greed is not involved on both sides, the players and the owners. I don't hear the players asking the owners to join them in taking less money so they can lower ticket prices for the fans? What's missing is no one seems to care about what the fans are being asked to pay, and at the root of all this is, without the fans, the owners and players would get nothing.

We are talking about QBs making $60 million per year which is an enormous amount of money, but a fraction of what the league is making overall. Yet the league is still looking to expand markets overseas to make even more money. That is greed. Think of the NFL has a society of sorts. Everyone in that society operates under the same rules and greed is apparently one of the fundamental rules of the league. Over the years we are seeing less football, more commercial breaks which rakes in even more money for the NFL owners and players. I believe at some point the NFL will break their product and suffer a loss of fans and revenue. It may take another 10 years but I don't think the cycle of greed can continue forever unabated.

Simply put when billions of dollars are being made and that is not enough, you have to consider greed is a factor.

When they charge you to park in order to watch their game, that is definitely greed. Imagine if your supermarket did that? They would if they could. But you'd just go to one that doesn't. Or park nearby.

 

[KingCorcoran]

A player under contract should not hold out. If you want FO accountability...then players need to have it too.

CeeDee is under contract. Get your butt on the field.

It's up to the FO to just say no to extreme contracts. If the NFL is so rich...ditch the cap.

An optional solution is for NFL to contract the players with their pool of money...under a union type structure with performance bonuses.

The NFL is the only pro football league of its kind. Players join the league, almost exclusively, after playing in college. They can be drafted by a team and that’s the only team they can sign with. Rookie’s salaries are pre-determined for a period of four years. Five if selected in the first round. And then two more with “tags”. This is the United States. The NFLPA is why this process is not a violation of anti-trust laws. It is inherently unfair. Not the “American way”, so to speak. CeeDee does not have to get his “butt on the field”. The same CBA that dictates he can’t sell his services to another team for seven years of his life also stipulates the penalty for withholding his services at this point. It’s a legitimate tactic, albeit an expensive one. His decision. His life.

 

[fivetwos]

The problem here is that this group of players folded like cheap chairs in a home playoff game 7 months ago in spite of their gaudy regular season numbers. So, it is not unreasonable to question their ability to win big games and subsequently their REAL value. This is particularly true in the case of Dak who sports a 2-5 playoff record having never advanced the team past a divisional round playoff game. So, if the Cowboys don't think Dak is worth what he wants and may have to replace him in 2025, then putting the breaks on making CD the highest paid WR in the NFL makes sense. The cowboys always have the option of franchising CD in 2025 until they figure out the QB spot.

What bothers me most about Dak is his comment about having to get the most money possible b/c he owes it to the other QBs around the league..... which is ridiculous. If he owes anybody anything, it is the Dallas Cowboys, particularly considering his playoff flop and the fact he earns an ADDITIONAL 50+M a year in endorsement simply for being the teams QB. He could take 45M and still net more money than going somewhere else. But as he stated, the contract isn't about him. It is about the other QBs. I guess that makes Brady and Mahomes the most selfish ah@les the league has ever seen. lol

I haven’t researched it but I don’t think Dak is in the 50m a year range with endorsements. That’s Ohtani level and includes the international factor.

Regardless, the agent won’t let him take a discounted deal. They all have the same spiel….you owe it to those behind you to keep salaries on the rise….which coincidentally benefits the agent also. Other players want to hire agents who secure record deals, not negotiate compromises.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

The NFL is the only pro football league of its kind. Players join the league, almost exclusively, after playing in college. They can be drafted by a team and that’s the only team they can sign with. Rookie’s salaries are pre-determined for a period of four years. Five if selected in the first round. And then two more with “tags”. This is the United States. The NFLPA is why this process is not a violation of anti-trust laws. It is inherently unfair. Not the “American way”, so to speak. CeeDee does not have to get his “butt on the field”. The same CBA that dictates he can’t sell his services to another team for seven years of his life also stipulates the penalty for withholding his services at this point. It’s a legitimate tactic, albeit an expensive one. His decision. His life.

So you are saying contracts are meaningless. Okay. We disagree there. Holding the owners hostage for NEXT years contract is...ethical...to you.

 

[atlantacowboy]

When they charge you to park in order to watch their game, that is definitely greed. Imagine if your supermarket did that? They would if they could. But you'd just go to one that doesn't. Or park nearby.

And you have the option to determine the value is not their and refuse to park. Dallas has the option as well to determine if Dak should be the among the highest paid QBs in the league or if the value is not there.

None of this has anything to do with owner being cheap. There is a salary cap max and a cap floor. Teams have to spend their salary cap on player salaries. So, there is no choice there. The choice is in what % the of the cap they can afford to pay and still build a team that has a chance to compete.

 

[atlantacowboy]

I haven’t researched it but I don’t think Dak is in the 50m a year range with endorsements. That’s Ohtani level and includes the international factor.

Regardless, the agent won’t let him take a discounted deal. They all have the same spiel….you owe it to those behind you to keep salaries on the rise….which coincidentally benefits the agent also. Other players want to hire agents who secure record deals, not negotiate compromises.

Have you tried Google?

https://www.google.com/search?q=Dak...INzA3MWowajeoAgCwAgA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

[Diehardblues]

Have you tried Google?

https://www.google.com/search?q=Dak...INzA3MWowajeoAgCwAgA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

It wasn’t clear if that was 50 million a year or what he’s earned to date ?

 

[sunalsorises]

Managing the cap is difficult when a player wants a short deal so he can sign another monster deal or wants all of the money guaranteed like with Watson. I have no idea what kind of terms Dak is asking but Dallas already has to figure out a way to spread next year's $40 million cap hit out on top of managing whatever an extension brings. If Dak hits the $60 million mark he would technically count $100 million against the cap next year. Dallas has to manage that by figuring out how to spread it out. There are trick but the money is always due and it catches up to the team.

 

[kskboys]

And you have the option to determine the value is not their and refuse to park. Dallas has the option as well to determine if Dak should be the among the highest paid QBs in the league or if the value is not there.

None of this has anything to do with owner being cheap. There is a salary cap max and a cap floor. Teams have to spend their salary cap on player salaries. So, there is no choice there. The choice is in what % the of the cap they can afford to pay and still build a team that has a chance to compete.

Very well said.

When people call Jerry cheap, I have to admit I do wonder about...things. Being cheap is simply not part of the equation. However, people started saying it, then repeating it, now it's being said a ton. And it's just not accurate. Jerry is football dumb, contract dumb.