SC Pass Defenses

[peplaw06]

More spinning.

I quoted him and replied to one sentence in his whole post. Newman wasn't mentioned for the rest of it. Peplaw brought up Pacman Jones, my post was more about the whole subject of using better statistics than anything about Newman.

I did not request statistics on Newman, what are you talking about? I never made any comparisons between Rogers and Newman, more crap you've made up. I only scoofed at the silly notion that Newman is somehow head and shoulders better than both our starting corners. Where is the comparison? Furthermore, since you think you've somehow actually made a point, if you're going to compare two players WHY are you only providing the required stats from ONE PLAYER. That proves nothing.

I also said only people who've actually watched the majority of the games a corner plays in could really be able to make true comparisons. Are you going to tell me I requested everyone to go and watch game film?? This is stupid. You jumping down my throat over nothing is stupid. Spin away, Spin Doctor.

I agree that there are "better stats" to use to guage a CBs performance than tackles, INT and PD.... I just don't have those stats, forgive me.

That said, tackles, INT and PD are useful stats.

1) Tackles -- obviously a tackle may mean that the CB allowed a pass to be completed, which isn't necessarily a good thing. However, I'd rather the CB tackle the guy when he does give up a reception than let him run downfield. Face it, CBs are going to give up catches sometimes. If they're going to give up the catch, making the tackle is then a good thing. It also guages their ability to support against the run. Irrelevant to the topic of pass coverage, but relevant to the quality of the CB.

2) INT -- interceptions are an indicator of good anticipation. If a guy is good enough as a cover CB though, he's not going to see as many opportunities as your average CB. The QBs will avoid him. But INTs are meaningful, because last I checked turnovers were a good thing. Do they mean everything? No. But they do mean something.

3) Passes Defended -- also a good indicator of anticipation, but shows a reluctance to go for the big play... to be more certain to prevent the offense from making the big play. I think this is where Newman excels (when the ball is being thrown at him). He doesn't have big INT numbers, but his PD are good and opponent's completion percentage against him is low.

So in conclusion, these stats I posted aren't the "end all be all" when comparing CBs. But they can be a good (and quick) indication of which CBs are playing pretty well. My whole point in posting those stats was to show that Rogers wasn't CLEARLY better than every other rookie CB last year. And I guess I've made my point, because I haven't seen any rebuttal to that statement.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

3.) Did you ever watch Carlos Rogers? He was clearly the best rookie corner in the league.

uh, Dominique Foxworth and Darrent Williams will have something to say about that then, after all, they were on the All-Rookie team ahead of Rogers

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I still haven't seen the segment. But the only explanation I can think of for having the Skins so high in regards to pass rush, must be Gregg Williams' creative blitzing schemes. We only added Andre Carter to bolster the pass rush. He'll do better than Daniels/Wynn, but none of the other DL are suited for that. Griffin and Salavea are run stuffers, so is Wynn, who'll probably start over Daniels.

that same blitzing scheme that had less sacks than Dallas did? we improved the pass-rush too by adding Carpenter and Akin Ayodele

 

[Bob Sacamano]

The Bears and Skins hotly pursued AA in Free Agency. Do you think the defensive minds behind those teams may know a little bit more than the guys in St Louis?

they sought him for his in-the-box skills, not his coverage ability

 

[skinsfunguy]

uh, Dominique Foxworth and Darrent Williams will have something to say about that then, after all, they were on the All-Rookie team ahead of Rogers

I did not say Carlos Rogers had the best season of any rookie. That would just simply be untrue given the fact that Williams rarely played him in the first have of the season, as he does with all rookies. However when he did play he outperformed the other rookie corners. So, I stand by my point that when Rogers played he played better than the other rookies. Rogers is a guy that is fast enough that can cover, but is also very good in run support and he can also lay some wood(see jacked up). The one area that needs improving is his hands, if Rogers had better hands he would have had many more than two int's and maybe, just maybe a trip to the super bowl.

EDIT: Here is the football outsiders all rookie team by the way.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2005/12/30/ramblings/too-deep-zone/3432/
Cornerback: Darrent Williams, Broncos

The Broncos rank 11th in DVOA when stopping their opponents’ #1 wideouts and 13th when stopping their #2 wideouts. Nobody is avoiding Champ Bailey to pick on Williams or fellow rookie Domonique Foxworth. Williams is a fine hitter for his size and is a great return man, but his most amazing statistic this year may be the number of times he has been penalized: zero.
Cornerback: Carlos Rogers, Commanders

Rogers replaced Fred Smoot and actually upgraded the Commanders secondary. He played his best game against the Chargers in Week 12 with an interception and three passes defensed, but he has been rock-solid since entering the lineup in Week 4. He has missed two straight games, and the Commanders need him back in the postseason.




Also, what the heck is this "toast" stuff. I live right outside DC and I have NEVER heard anyone refer to Rogers as "toast". Care to provide a link?

 

[skinsfunguy]

uh, Dominique Foxworth and Darrent Williams will have something to say about that then, after all, they were on the All-Rookie team ahead of Rogers

Dominique Foxworth was not on the All-Rookie team. It was Darrent Williams and Ellis Hobbs.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/9169011

 

[MossBurner]

And the Skins players got younger, right?

I just offered one possible answer to a question. Two old cornerbacks got older; that is one potential reason the Cowboys pass defense 'rating' dropped.

 

[MossBurner]

Adam Archuleta is not good in coverage, Shawn Springs is over 30 and has injury problems almost his entire career. Carlos Roges has to show he can do it for second season and Sean Taylor is a very good player, I m not going to take any thing away from him. But your secondary does have its share of issues.

No squad is perfect. The Commanders secondary is not perfect but it is closer to perfect than at least 28 teams in the league.

 

[MossBurner]

they sought him for his in-the-box skills, not his coverage ability

Are you the GM or defensive coordinator of Chicago or Washington? If not, don't speak as to their intentions.

 

[skinsfunguy]

Where did the edit function go?

 

[gbrittain]

Dang gbrittain, looks like we were on the same wavelength.

What can I say..."Great minds think alike" or is it "even a blind squirrel (ME) finds an acorn sometimes".

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Are you the GM or defensive coordinator of Chicago or Washington? If not, don't speak as to their intentions.

are you?!!

think about it, Washington already has a centerfielder at the S position in ST, and their D scheme is blitz-intensive, the only area Adam excels in...

 

[Bob Sacamano]

EDIT: Here is the football outsiders all rookie team by the way.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2005/12/30/ramblings/too-deep-zone/3432/
Cornerback: Darrent Williams, Broncos

The Broncos rank 11th in DVOA when stopping their opponents’ #1 wideouts and 13th when stopping their #2 wideouts. Nobody is avoiding Champ Bailey to pick on Williams or fellow rookie Domonique Foxworth. Williams is a fine hitter for his size and is a great return man, but his most amazing statistic this year may be the number of times he has been penalized: zero.
Cornerback: Carlos Rogers, Commanders

Rogers replaced Fred Smoot and actually upgraded the Commanders secondary. He played his best game against the Chargers in Week 12 with an interception and three passes defensed, but he has been rock-solid since entering the lineup in Week 4. He has missed two straight games, and the Commanders need him back in the postseason.




Also, what the heck is this "toast" stuff. I live right outside DC and I have NEVER heard anyone refer to Rogers as "toast". Care to provide a link?

cool, but Darrent WIlliams is on the list, so how again was Rogers "clearly" the best rookie CB?

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I just offered one possible answer to a question. Two old cornerbacks got older; that is one potential reason the Cowboys pass defense 'rating' dropped.

uh, Aaron Glenn was playing fine the 2nd half of the season, and A Henry was injured, a groin injury would keep a 21 year old out of action for as long as it did Henry, and sap his effectiveness, it's a tough injury don't care how old, or young, you are

btw, our secondary did fine bottling up Steve Smith near the end of the season

I dont' know where you're getting this idea that our secondary's play declined due to age...