School Shooter, No remorse

[CanadianCowboysFan]

And yours is because you don't believe in the death sentence. As I said there are crimes that the death penalty has been given and I don't agree with it. However this is pre meditated murder he knew exactly what he was doing and there is no doubts that he did it.

hell seems anyone can do anything they want to do and will never suffer the death penalty in your eyes.

good comeback

Law is not about emotion or determining that person should die for a crime etc.

The death penalty is archaic and from the stone age. Making the person live in cell where others can go free, in and out etc is far worse mentally. He suffers longer, you should like that aspect.

 

[Doomsday101]

good comeback

Law is not about emotion or determining that person should die for a crime etc.

The death penalty is archaic and from the stone age. Making the person live in cell where others can go free, in and out etc is far worse mentally. He suffers longer, you should like that aspect.

That is your view many disagree with it. Fact is there is no crime in which you would give the death penalty yet you will claim mine is out of emotion?

Then to turn around and make the comment being in prison is some how worse. What a joke.

 

[vta]

good comeback

Law is not about emotion or determining that person should die for a crime etc.

The death penalty is archaic and from the stone age. Making the person live in cell where others can go free, in and out etc is far worse mentally. He suffers longer, you should like that aspect.

The law also prohibits cruel and unusual punishment, yet here you're advancing the idea of a crueler sort of punishment. Should the law should act on petulance or pragmatic utility?

How long can a society sustain a veritable under society of criminals packed together forming their own sub-cultures on our dime? I doubt creating a demographic of hostile sociopaths is a great model for any civilization to follow.

Eventually the arc of that civilization descends and affording such a thing will be impossible. What then? Mass murder? Take your chances and free them on an innocent society.

The point of the death penalty isn't to right a wrong, it's to wash your hands of a terrible person. Instead we get daily udates on fools like Loughner and that Colorado shooter, making them a daily part of our culture. Manson has become an icon for some and people can probably name 5-10 serial killers but very few victims.

Great practice for a civilized society. They should all be grease spots somewhere and largely washed from our collective consciousness. No 'study' of them has benefitted us in terms of marginilizing people like that and the taxpayers aren't advanced for having housed this mindless wastes all these years.

At some point the consequences and identifiable product needs to be evaluated and an understanding formed.

 

[Denim Chicken]

The law also prohibits cruel and unusual punishment, yet here you're advancing the idea of a crueler sort of punishment. Should the law should act on petulance or pragmatic utility?

How long can a society sustain a veritable under society of criminals packed together forming their own sub-cultures on our dime? I doubt creating a demographic of hostile sociopaths is a great model for any civilization to follow.

Eventually the arc of that civilization descends and affording such a thing will be impossible. What then? Mass murder? Take your chances and free them on an innocent society.

The point of the death penalty isn't to right a wrong, it's to wash your hands of a terrible person. Instead we get daily udates on fools like Loughner and that Colorado shooter, making them a daily part of our culture. Manson has become an icon for some and people can probably name 5-10 serial killers but very few victims.

Great practice for a civilized society. They should all be grease spots somewhere and largely washed from our collective consciousness. No 'study' of them has benefitted us in terms of marginilizing people like that and the taxpayers aren't advanced for having housed this mindless wastes all these years.

At some point the consequences and identifiable product needs to be evaluated and an understanding formed.

VTA,

You suggest the idea that, from behind bars, these murderous criminals are advancing some contagious groupthink that permeates into larger society creating more killers? I don’t think so. There has always been an abject fascination with those who do the worst. Look at the attention Hitler commands. Shall we wipe out the historical records for the same reason? The death penalty is about revenge. And a civilized society who would execute criminals for that reason, or in order to simply make us forget what they did, should not call themselves civilized.

 

[vta]

I'm not suggesting anything of the sort. I'm plainly stating that it's negative communication that doesn't need to be communicated. People like the above mentioned aren't 'news' anymore, they're figures gratuitously being communicated to us for no other reson than to satisfy what? The morbid curiosity of some? It's simply a negative drag that is not necessary.

You shouldn't confuse history with sensationlism. Hitler wasn't a common criminal and his imapct on history is undeniable and noteworthy on so many levels. I'm not sure the benefit of having some kid know who Charles Manson is/was other than to see him in a diffused abstract way wearing some cool iconic shirt with that jerks face plastered on it.

And no, the idea put forth was that it's crueler to make someone live in horrible conditions; that is revenge. Killing them is simply putting both parties out of their misery. Society knows one less threat is walking around and the killer isn't living like a fungus in some dank cell. I'd rather drop dead than live an unknowable length of time in some crap hole being fed junk and largely forgotten - if not being molested in general pop. That's civilized.

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

I'm not suggesting anything of the sort. I'm plainly stating that it's negative communication that doesn't need to be communicated. People like the above mentioned aren't 'news' anymore, they're figures gratuitously being communicated to us for no other reson than to satisfy what? The morbid curiosity of some? It's simply a negative drag that is not necessary.

You shouldn't confuse history with sensationlism. Hitler wasn't a common criminal and his imapct on history is undeniable and noteworthy on so many levels. I'm not sure the benefit of having some kid know who Charles Manson is/was other than to see him in a diffused abstract way wearing some cool iconic shirt with that jerks face plastered on it.

And no, the idea put forth was that it's crueler to make someone live in horrible conditions; that is revenge. Killing them is simply putting both parties out of their misery. Society knows one less threat is walking around and the killer isn't living like a fungus in some dank cell. I'd rather drop dead than live an unknowable length of time in some crap hole being fed junk and largely forgotten - if not being molested in general pop. That's civilized.

if the press didn't report it nor people talk about it, those guys would go away

 

[vta]

if the press didn't report it nor people talk about it, those guys would go away

Haha. Canadian made a funny. :

 

[Doomsday101]

Call it revenge, punishment or justice whatever floats your boat. Now claiming what a civilized society would or would not do that too is just your opinion.

Handing down the ultimate punishment to those who knowingly and willingly murder in my view is just and nothing uncivilized about it. Why should they get the benefit of life that they willingly take from others?

As for the anti death penalty view of it is not a deterrent? BS how would anyone know if it has deterred someone or not. How do they know if the thought of facing death has not changed anyone minds? You don't. If it deters 1 out of 10 then great as for the other 9 if they are still willing to take life even with that facing them then why should they live?

 

[Denim Chicken]

Handing down the ultimate punishment to those who knowingly and willingly murder in my view is just and nothing uncivilized about it. Why should they get the benefit of life that they willingly take from others?

Because it shows that we, as a society, are not the same as them.

 

[Doomsday101]

Because it shows that we, as a society, are not the same as them.

We are not the same as them. They took innocent life we are not taking the life of the innocent. Those victims did not ask to die they did nothing to provoke their death. To try and use that old claim of being the same as them in non sense.

 

[Denim Chicken]

We are not the same as them. They took innocent life we are not taking the life of the innocent. Those victims did not ask to die they did nothing to provoke their death. To try and use that old claim of being the same as them in non sense.

Taking a life is taking a life. Unless under imminent danger, I cannot justify it in my mind. But, as you pointed out before--it is my opinion only.

 

[Doomsday101]

Taking a life is taking a life. Unless under imminent danger, I cannot justify it in my mind. But, as you pointed out before--it is my opinion only.

I understand where you are coming from. I'm not one who cheers the death penalty. It is a very serious matter and one that in my view should be only used in certain clear cut cases

 

[5Stars]

if the press didn't report it nor people talk about it, those guys would go away

I was watching CNN today about what it may cost to prosecute a prisoner, in this case the shooter that killed all those people in the theater. The cost could go upwards of 30 million dollars of tax payer money after all the appeals and stuff. And, that is before the fool goes to prison for life..to house the fool for the rest of his life could cost about 30 - 40 thousand a year to keep the fool alive!

Screw all that! Use a 87 cent bullet between the eyes and get it over with!

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

I was watching CNN today about what it may cost to prosecute a prisoner, in this case the shooter that killed all those people in the theater. The cost could go upwards of 30 million dollars of tax payer money after all the appeals and stuff. And, that is before the fool goes to prison for life..to house the fool for the rest of his life could cost about 30 - 40 thousand a year to keep the fool alive!

Screw all that! Use a 87 cent bullet between the eyes and get it over with!

the 30 million is gone regardless of whether you kill him in the end or not.

30-40000 a year isn't really that much when you consider trillions of debt, that is only a million if he lives 30 years, pretty much meaningless overall

 

[Mountaineerfan]

I was watching CNN today about what it may cost to prosecute a prisoner, in this case the shooter that killed all those people in the theater. The cost could go upwards of 30 million dollars of tax payer money after all the appeals and stuff. And, that is before the fool goes to prison for life..to house the fool for the rest of his life could cost about 30 - 40 thousand a year to keep the fool alive!

Screw all that! Use a 87 cent bullet between the eyes and get it over with!

This is the reason why some States do no have the death penalty the cost out weights the action. When I was in school 15 years ago the average cost to put an inmate to death was 7-15 million dollars compared to 250,000-750,000 thousand for life. There have been enough cases of the wrong person being put to death or on death row/prison that the appeals process is necessary. It is just the cost of things but if they really said 30 million to prosecute from beginning to end I would say they are laying the ground work for a plea. I just don't see how it could cost that much. I would say the max would be 20 million because as the price of everything around us has risen the court system is the only thing that has not went up. If fact in nc the cost of a court appointed attorney has went from 100 hr to 55.00 per hour. the court cost and fines are the only thing to go up.

 

[Angus12]

30-40000 a year isn't really that much when you consider trillions of debt, that is only a million if he lives 30 years, pretty much meaningless overall

Now take that number and spread it out to include the thousands upon thousands of other murderers behind bars for 'life'.

 

[Seven]

You can call it vengeance if you want but I see no need to feed or house or cloth this monster if you do then fine that is your view but I will not pity this guy and yes i think he deserves death. He is not the victim he took innocent life he made his choice.

Average life span via death row is approx.14.5 years and that's with the normal appeals process.They can appeal on a hunch if they so desire, lengthening their stay on this planet. (California has DR inmates still amongst the living from the 70's! General pop LWOP inmates are commiting murders to GET to DR.) DR inmates have their own cells that are larger than general pop. and more amenities; television, rec rooms, etc. However they are allowed out of their cells for only an hour a day practically removing the possibility of being beaten to death or sodomized.......routinely. Poor babies.


Texas does seem to be able to stream line the process with the average life span on DR to be about 10.5 years.


We'd pay for this kid for a long time and the cost of the actual procedure is mind-boggling.

The crime itself and the defendant can continue to stick it to the victims families and friends for YEARS with the appeals process. Never allowing them to begin the healing process.



I agree with you. Just saying when we hear death penalty it isn't in the near future and usually right around the time the victims families maybe have gotten over it or can at least keep it from entering their minds daily. They get to have it drudged up again in all of it's brutal glory to re-live. Nice, huh?

 

[Doomsday101]

Average life span via death row is approx.14.5 years and that's with the normal appeals process.They can appeal on a hunch if they so desire, lengthening their stay on this planet. (California has DR inmates still amongst the living from the 70's! General pop LWOP inmates are commiting murders to GET to DR.) DR inmates have their own cells that are larger than general pop. and more amenities; television, rec rooms, etc. However they are allowed out of their cells for only an hour a day practically removing the possibility of being beaten to death or sodomized.......routinely. Poor babies.


Texas does seem to be able to stream line the process with the average life span on DR to be about 10.5 years.


We'd pay for this kid for a long time and the cost of the actual procedure is mind-boggling.

The crime itself and the defendant can continue to stick it to the victims families and friends for YEARS with the appeals process. Never allowing them to begin the healing process.



I agree with you. Just saying when we hear death penalty it isn't in the near future and usually right around the time the victims families maybe have gotten over it or can at least keep it from entering their minds daily. They get to have it drudged up again in all of it's brutal glory to re-live. Nice, huh?

No doubt about it. I will say I think the death penalty should be used more sparingly and I have no issue with appeals since it is the one punishment you can't undo. Having said that there are cases that the crime has been just down right evil with not question of a doubt. These spree shooters or the guys who dragged James Byrd behind a truck sorry I have no remorse for them nor do I think they should continue to live. Go throught the proper appeals and let justice be served.

 

[Seven]

No doubt about it. I will say I think the death penalty should be used more sparingly and I have no issue with appeals since it is the one punishment you can't undo. Having said that there are cases that the crime has been just down right evil with not question of a doubt. These spree shooters or the guys who dragged James Byrd behind a truck sorry I have no remorse for them nor do I think they should continue to live. Go throught the proper appeals and let justice be served.

I believe in the appeals process, no doubt. But a decades worth after being declined 10 times is a little excessive, IMO. Some are straight forward and should be carried out swiftly, I concur.

Even if they wave their appeals, some are automatic and usually their defense lawyer files 'em anyway. THEN the defendant gets more time filing AGAINST his own lawyers. It does go a littler quicker, tho, when they wave their rights. Bout 4-6 years.

Lawerence Brewer......one of Mr.Byrds' murderers. Executed 09/21/2011. He lived for 12 years after his crime. His schtick while imprisoned was that it was NOT a hate crime rather a drug debt owed and that he also tried to stop it. Believe that? Me niether. He was a known member of The Confederate Knights of America AND the Ku Klux Klan. He had no final statement (imagine that.) and ordered a humongous last meal...... which he declined to eat after they brought it to him.



His buddy John King still sits on DR. The other freak, Shawn Berry, got life which means parole is a possibility. Oh, yay.



Sorry for getting off-topic............

 

[Doomsday101]

I believe in the appeals process, no doubt. But a decades worth after being declined 10 times is a little excessive, IMO. Some are straight forward and should be carried out swiftly, I concur.

Even if they wave their appeals, some are automatic and usually their defense lawyer files 'em anyway. THEN the defendant gets more time filing AGAINST his own lawyers. It does go a littler quicker, tho, when they wave their rights. Bout 4-6 years.

Lawerence Brewer......one of Mr.Byrds' murderers. Executed 09/21/2011. He lived for 12 years after his crime. His schtick while imprisoned was that it was NOT a hate crime rather a drug debt owed and that he also tried to stop it. Believe that? Me niether. He was a known member of The Confederate Knights of America AND the Ku Klux Klan. He had no final statement (imagine that.) and ordered a humongous last meal...... which he declined to eat after they brought it to him.



His buddy John King still sits on DR. The other freak, Shawn Berry, got life which means parole is a possibility. Oh, yay.



Sorry for getting off-topic............

Yeah Berry got off DR by testifying against the others. I agree I think the appeals can go overboard. I think some of the technical appeals are bit ridicules. I do think it is something that you have to be careful with because once it is done it can't be undone.

Yes there are situation like Ted Bundy it was clear cut no need to prolong the enviable and by the way he went crying like a little punk he was. He had no problem taking the lives of innocent girls I had no pity for him either.

Im not one who celebrates the death penalty but yes there are some who clearly deserve the punishment and that is what it is punishment. If it deters one out of 10 then it was worth it.