Sean Lee is excited to play next to Smith and LVE

[DogFace]

Just a bit of sarcasm. The point was that knowing and doing are separate things. Knowing takes study, doing takes practice and experience.

And still you avoid the question of what kind of impact (or even opportunity) Lee would have had being fully healthy for only one game after his game 3 injury. One game out of the next 14. Just one, and somehow you think that was an opportunity missed by the team for Lee to make a big impact.

Obviously with all things being equal, Lee is better than Wilson. But that wasn’t the case, no matter how much you want to bury your head in the sand to the truth. Lee was injured and unavailable for all or parts of 13 games last season, and Wilson had played had played SLB the last couple of years and Lee hadn’t. All things were not equal.

Sorry. I thought I answered. He would’ve had more of an impact playing instead of Wilson if for no other reason than he would’ve have negatively affected LVE’s impact. However, one other reason is he’s better with or without experience at a nearly identical position.

Doesn’t matter if it’s equal. Lee was, would’ve been, and is better than Wilson. If healthy. Which they claimed he was.

I’d like to ask Lee if he thought it would be better for the team if he sat out because he didn’t have experience or if he had played SLB.

 

[OmerV]

Sorry. I thought I answered. He would’ve had more of an impact playing instead of Wilson if for no other reason than he would’ve have negatively affected LVE’s impact. However, one other reason is he’s better with or without experience at a nearly identical position.

Doesn’t matter if it’s equal. Lee was, would’ve been, and is better than Wilson. If healthy. Which they claimed he was.

I’d like to ask Lee if he thought it would be better for the team if he sat out because he didn’t have experience or if he had played SLB.

Even if it’s true he would have had more impact than Wilson in that one game, which is questionable at best given it would have been his very first game in that role, it was still ONE GAME. A single game, then poof, hurt the next week and out another 6 weeks. Are you really arguing that one game would have made a differences?

 

[DogFace]

Even if it’s true he would have had more impact than Wilson in that one game, which is questionable at best given it would have been his very first game in that role, it was still ONE GAME. A single game, then poof, hurt the next week and out another 6 weeks. Are you really arguing that one game would have made a differences?

One playoff game? Yeah. If we had won we would’ve played another. Having LVE on the field may have increased our chance. Not having Wilson in favor of Lee also would’ve.

I said it was a poor decision to play him over LVE.

 

[OmerV]

One playoff game? Yeah. If we had won we would’ve played another. Having LVE on the field may have increased our chance. Not having Wilson in favor of Lee also would’ve.

I said it was a poor decision to play him over LVE.

LVE started that game and played 61 defensive snaps to Lee’s 21. LVE only came off the field deep in the game and then because he was struggling with the motion and misdirection the Rams were showing.

The one game I was referring to was Game 7. The next game after that (Game 8) where Lee got hurt (again) was Lee’s last start of the season.

 

[DogFace]

LVE started that game and played 61 defensive snaps to Lee’s 21. LVE only came off the field deep in the game and then because he was struggling with the motion and misdirection the Rams were showing.

The one game I was referring to was Game 7. The next game after that (Game 8) where Lee got hurt (again) was Lee’s last start of the season.

So he missed 1/4 of the possible snaps to Lee?
Bad move. I would like my best players on the field more. I would’ve been happy if he played all of Wilson’s snaps. Which he will now when he isn’t hurt.

If LVE is making mistakes. Which I haven’t heard, but believe you, he should’ve played through it. He’s a young star and likely would’ve corrected his errors.

 

[OmerV]

So he missed 1/4 of the possible snaps to Lee?
Bad move. I would like my best players on the field more. I would’ve been happy if he played all of Wilson’s snaps. Which he will now when he isn’t hurt.

If LVE is making mistakes. Which I haven’t heard, but believe you, he should’ve played through it. He’s a young star and likely would’ve corrected his errors.

Lol - grasping to new arguments now are you? But not better ones. This isn’t even the same argument - this is just complaining that LVE had to spend a few plays on the bench.

Apparently you thought Lee started that game, and now you know the truth you are searching for something else. And that something else is to act like LVE was doing fine in the Rams game and there was no justification for Lee playing. I guess you missed the constant flow of 5-12 yard runs between the tackles and just off tackle, and missed how LVE and others were constantly fooled by the motion and misdirection.

Lol - you’re right - why would we let an experienced former All Pro in the game who was less likely to get fooled when we could use the playoffs as a learning experience for the rookies? Like a preseason game! And never mind that Sean Lee had more tackles than LVE in about 1/3 of the snaps. And so what if it was a win or go home situation? It was a teaching moment for the rookies, and winning a playoff game and going to the NFC Champiinship really didn’t matter compared to that, right?

 

[DogFace]

Lol - grasping to new arguments now are you? But not better ones. This isn’t even the same argument - this is just complaining that LVE had to spend a few plays on the bench.

Apparently you thought Lee started that game, and now you know the truth you are searching for something else. And that something else is to act like LVE was doing fine in the Rams game and there was no justification for Lee playing. I guess you missed the constant flow of 5-12 yard runs between the tackles and just off tackle, and missed how LVE and others were constantly fooled by the motion and misdirection.

Lol - you’re right - why would we let an experienced former All Pro in the game who was less likely to get fooled when we could use the playoffs as a learning experience for the rookies? Like a preseason game! And never mind that Sean Lee had more tackles than LVE in about 1/3 of the snaps. And so what if it was a win or go home situation? It was a teaching moment for the rookies, and winning a playoff game and going to the NFC Champiinship really didn’t matter compared to that, right?

Explain how it’s a different argument.

LVE should play.
Lee should play in place of Wilson and not take snaps from LVE. I’d like to know how that’s different. At all. Please try again.

A former all pro moving to another linebacker spot nearly identical to his former position and playing well. At least better than Wilson. That should’ve happened.

Add in some little **tchy lol’s where needed to help you feel happy.

The Irony now is you’re attempting to change the argument to being about LVE not playing well. That’s called projecting so you’re likely not aware of the irony.

Not ironic is the fact you’re doing what you did when you first joined the site and were losing the Dez catch debate. Except now your veiled insults are about my opinion and not fact.

 

[pancakeman]

They're calling Lee the SLB; however, he likely plays what many coaches would call WLB.

In the photo, Vander Esch is the WLB in Marinelli's terms, but many coaches would call Vander Esch the SLB in this alignment with #48 Thomas as the WLB.

When the Cowboys play 3 LBs sets (base), it is likely to look similar to the photo with Lee in place of #48 Thomas.

Why does Marinelli label them opposite of what they actually are?!

 

[OmerV]

Explain how it’s a different argument.

LVE should play.
Lee should play in place of Wilson and not take snaps from LVE. I’d like to know how that’s different. At all. Please try again.

A former all pro moving to another linebacker spot nearly identical to his former position and playing well. At least better than Wilson. That should’ve happened.

Add in some little **tchy lol’s where needed to help you feel happy.

The Irony now is you’re attempting to change the argument to being about LVE not playing well. That’s called projecting so you’re likely not aware of the irony.

Not ironic is the fact you’re doing what you did when you first joined the site and were losing the Dez catch debate. Except now your veiled insults are about my opinion and not fact.

You were simply complaining that LVE shouldn't have come off the field, not that Lee should have been playing another position.

Let's put this "nearly identical" nonsense to rest for a second. The Cowboys play a WLB every defensive down. The play their SLB about 25% of the time. Why? Because they are different positions with different responsibilities in the Cowboy defense.

You still can't explain how Lee was going to be better than Wilson while he was in the training room or on the sideline in street clothes and Wilson was healthy.

LETS SUM UP YOUR ARGUMENTS:

1. After Lee got injured in game 3, Lee was should have been moved to SLB, and be a better player than Wilson despite the fact that he couldn't run, couldn't practice, and was injured in every game except game 7 the rest of the season.

2. When LVE and the rest of the defense had difficulty against the Rams, the Cowboys should have ignored that it was a playoff game with a trip to the NFC Championship Game at stake, and should have used LVE for 100% of the downs rather than the 75% he played so he could try and work through the problems … you know, like a preseason game.

 

[DogFace]

You were simply complaining that LVE shouldn't have come off the field, not that Lee should have been playing another position.

Let's put this "nearly identical" nonsense to rest for a second. The Cowboys play a WLB every defensive down. The play their SLB about 25% of the time. Why? Because they are different positions with different responsibilities in the Cowboy defense.

You still can't explain how Lee was going to be better than Wilson while he was in the training room or on the sideline in street clothes and Wilson was healthy.

LETS SUM UP YOUR ARGUMENTS:

1. After Lee got injured in game 3, Lee was should have been moved to SLB, and be a better player than Wilson despite the fact that he couldn't run, couldn't practice, and was injured in every game except game 7 the rest of the season.

2. When LVE and the rest of the defense had difficulty against the Rams, the Cowboys should have ignored that it was a playoff game with a trip to the NFC Championship Game at stake, and should have used LVE for 100% of the downs rather than the 75% he played so he could try and work through the problems … you know, like a preseason game.

Are you serious?https://cowboyszone.com/threads/sean-lee-is-excited-to-play-next-to-smith-and-lve.433786/page-2
Read my first reply to you then admit you’re wrong.
You must be making this argument with someone else and getting confused.

SLB and Wlb aren’t that different. Are they a little different. Sure. Are they too different for Lee to line up and play after watching for a few weeks. No. They’re not.

How could I explain that? That’s stupid. It’s my opinion. Since physics has proved time travel is possible I’ll look into it and see if I can make the necessary changes. Until then I just have my opinion backed up by the fact that Lee is a former all pro, a smart vet that knows all position’s responsibilities, and a damn good tackler who could’ve made an impact in place of an average at best player.

Show me once where I said anything about game 3 or the other nonsense you said. Then take a deep breath and regain your composure.

You can’t imagine things into being true. In real life.

 

[OmerV]

Are you serious?https://cowboyszone.com/threads/sean-lee-is-excited-to-play-next-to-smith-and-lve.433786/page-2
Read my first reply to you then admit you’re wrong.
You must be making this argument with someone else and getting confused.

SLB and Wlb aren’t that different. Are they a little different. Sure. Are they too different for Lee to line up and play after watching for a few weeks. No. They’re not.

How could I explain that? That’s stupid. It’s my opinion. Since physics has proved time travel is possible I’ll look into it and see if I can make the necessary changes. Until then I just have my opinion backed up by the fact that Lee is a former all pro, a smart vet that knows all position’s responsibilities, and a damn good tackler who could’ve made an impact in place of an average at best player.

Show me once where I said anything about game 3 or the other nonsense you said. Then take a deep breath and regain your composure.

You can’t imagine things into being true. In real life.

This was your first response to me …

Yeah I know that, but when he was healthy this wasn’t tried once. It’s what we see too often with this staff.
That is, things that are too obvious as a good choice are ignored. The only thing we tried was to sub out our pro bowl rookie for Lee. Which was a poor choice. IMO.

This post was flawed because Lee really wasn't healthy to play either position, much less work on a new one, and LVE was not yet a Pro Bowl rookie. The team couldn't know after just a few quarters, or even a few games, that things would go as well as they did. Time told that story.

The other thing you have missed is that LVE was actually worked at both SLB and WLB in training camp, so there was a plan to have all 3 on the field at times. And, in fact, that was happening. LVE played in the games Lee started at WLB. SLB just played fewer snaps. Things changed when Lee kept getting hurt and LVE responded so well when he stepped in at WLB. And, of course, how well LVE actually responded took some time to know, so the team had to be prepared for S. Lee to move back into the WLB role. Then Lee got hurt the second time, LVE firmed his grip on the WLB role, and Lee and was never fully healthy the remainder of the regular season. Accordingly, there was no opportunity for the transition you talk about.

You simply can't get around the fact that you keep talking as if LVE were a completely known entity from the beginning of the season, and as if Lee were available to play a lot at SLB, when in fact he wasn't available for the overwhelming majority of the season to play any position.

 

[aikemirv]

I really don't think I can have any conversations with anyone who writes the term H*** B *** about our defense. That is just the stupidest term/nickname ever!

 

[DogFace]

This was your first response to me …

Yeah I know that, but when he was healthy this wasn’t tried once. It’s what we see too often with this staff.
That is, things that are too obvious as a good choice are ignored. The only thing we tried was to sub out our pro bowl rookie for Lee. Which was a poor choice. IMO.

This post was flawed because Lee really wasn't healthy to play either position, much less work on a new one, and LVE was not yet a Pro Bowl rookie. The team couldn't know after just a few quarters, or even a few games, that things would go as well as they did. Time told that story.

The other thing you have missed is that LVE was actually worked at both SLB and WLB in training camp, so there was a plan to have all 3 on the field at times. And, in fact, that was happening. LVE played in the games Lee started at WLB. SLB just played fewer snaps. Things changed when Lee kept getting hurt and LVE responded so well when he stepped in at WLB. And, of course, how well LVE actually responded took some time to know, so the team had to be prepared for S. Lee to move back into the WLB role. Then Lee got hurt the second time, LVE firmed his grip on the WLB role, and Lee and was never fully healthy the remainder of the regular season. Accordingly, there was no opportunity for the transition you talk about.

You simply can't get around the fact that you keep talking as if LVE were a completely known entity from the beginning of the season, and as if Lee were available to play a lot at SLB, when in fact he wasn't available for the overwhelming majority of the season to play any position.

When was Lee healthy?— By your estimation. I’m going by when he played. That’s the “once he was healthy part”.

Then I went on to talk about taking out LVE for him. Instead of doing that I think they should’ve played Lee in place of Wilson at strong. In my opinion that would’ve been the smart move.

Where did you get your “summation of my arguments” from that?

LETS SUM UP YOUR ARGUMENTS:

1. After Lee got injured in game 3, Lee was should have been moved to SLB, and be a better player than Wilson despite the fact that he couldn't run, couldn't practice, and was injured in every game except game 7 the rest of the season.

2. When LVE and the rest of the defense had difficulty against the Rams, the Cowboys should have ignored that it was a playoff game with a trip to the NFC Championship Game at stake, and should have used LVE for 100% of the downs rather than the 75% he played so he could try and work through the problems … you know, like a preseason game.

You also said:
“You were simply complaining that LVE shouldn't have come off the field, not that Lee should have been playing another position.”

How’d you get that from what I posted ?

 

[DogFace]

This was your first response to me …

Yeah I know that, but when he was healthy this wasn’t tried once. It’s what we see too often with this staff.
That is, things that are too obvious as a good choice are ignored. The only thing we tried was to sub out our pro bowl rookie for Lee. Which was a poor choice. IMO.

This post was flawed because Lee really wasn't healthy to play either position, much less work on a new one, and LVE was not yet a Pro Bowl rookie. The team couldn't know after just a few quarters, or even a few games, that things would go as well as they did. Time told that story.

The other thing you have missed is that LVE was actually worked at both SLB and WLB in training camp, so there was a plan to have all 3 on the field at times. And, in fact, that was happening. LVE played in the games Lee started at WLB. SLB just played fewer snaps. Things changed when Lee kept getting hurt and LVE responded so well when he stepped in at WLB. And, of course, how well LVE actually responded took some time to know, so the team had to be prepared for S. Lee to move back into the WLB role. Then Lee got hurt the second time, LVE firmed his grip on the WLB role, and Lee and was never fully healthy the remainder of the regular season. Accordingly, there was no opportunity for the transition you talk about.

You simply can't get around the fact that you keep talking as if LVE were a completely known entity from the beginning of the season, and as if Lee were available to play a lot at SLB, when in fact he wasn't available for the overwhelming majority of the season to play any position.

https://cowboyszone.com/threads/sean-lee-is-excited-to-play-next-to-smith-and-lve.433786/
My first response was about us switching Lee to string side. Which you say I didn’t say.

And my response to you was about your response about that response.

So...I clearly did say Lee should play strong and LVE play Weak.

You:
“You were simply complaining that LVE shouldn't have come off the field, not that Lee should have been playing another position”

 

[OmerV]

When was Lee healthy?— By your estimation. I’m going by when he played. That’s the “once he was healthy part”.

Then I went on to talk about taking out LVE for him. Instead of doing that I think they should’ve played Lee in place of Wilson at strong. In my opinion that would’ve been the smart move.

Where did you get your “summation of my arguments” from that?

LETS SUM UP YOUR ARGUMENTS:

1. After Lee got injured in game 3, Lee was should have been moved to SLB, and be a better player than Wilson despite the fact that he couldn't run, couldn't practice, and was injured in every game except game 7 the rest of the season.

2. When LVE and the rest of the defense had difficulty against the Rams, the Cowboys should have ignored that it was a playoff game with a trip to the NFC Championship Game at stake, and should have used LVE for 100% of the downs rather than the 75% he played so he could try and work through the problems … you know, like a preseason game.

He was fully healthy in games 1, 2 and 7. He started games 3 and 8 healthy, but got hurt in those games. Then he played limited snaps to protect his hamstring in 2 other games (game 14 & 16). Accordingly, there were only 3 games where he was fully healthy the entirety of each game, 2 of which were Games 1 & 2, therefore over the last 14 games of 2018 he was only fully available in Game 7.

You talked about taking out LVE in the Rams playoff game, but LVE was struggling in that game, as were a lot of players, and subbing in for a sparsely used Wilson wouldn't have addressed that. Wilson only got 10 defensive snaps in that game, so replacing him wouldn't have made an impact. Agree with it or not, those are simply decisions coaches have to make when they think a player is having difficulty.

I got my summation of your arguments from your posts. You have ignored S. Lee's injury situation in 2018 and acted as if he could have played and made an impact at SLB, and you indicated it didn't matter if LVE was having difficulty against the Rams, and that he should have been allowed to stay in and work through it. Of course, he did play 77% of the defensive snaps in that game, so he didn't have nearly the bench time you imagine.

 

[xwalker]

Why does Marinelli label them opposite of what they actually are?!

It's not always opposite.

The WLB moves with the 3-tech DT.

The LBs and DL are linked together in how they play/adjust.

For example consider their most common alignment in base:
LDE 1-tech 3-tech RDE
SLB MLB WLB

If the RDE rushes to the inside then the WLB is responsible for outside contain on the RB or QB.

If the RDE rushes outside then he (RDE) has outside contain.

 

[OmerV]

https://cowboyszone.com/threads/sean-lee-is-excited-to-play-next-to-smith-and-lve.433786/
My first response was about us switching Lee to string side. Which you say I didn’t say.

And my response to you was about your response about that response.

So...I clearly did say Lee should play strong and LVE play Weak.

You:
“You were simply complaining that LVE shouldn't have come off the field, not that Lee should have been playing another position”

Where did I say you didn't say Lee should have been switched to strong side? That's nonsensical because this whole time I have been telling you how that didn't make sense given his injuries and his lack of opportunity to practice the position. For you to think otherwise means you have missed the entire context of the discussion, and have apparenty reached the point of insanity.

That comment you quoted was in the context of your comments about the Rams game, in which you merely said Lee shouldn't have cut into LVE's playing time. I was talking about THAT COMMENT you made about THAT GAME, not the entirety of the discussion. Try and keep up.

 

[DogFace]

Where did I say you didn't say Lee should have been switched to strong side? That's nonsensical because this whole time I have been telling you how that didn't make sense given his injuries and his lack of opportunity to practice the position. For you to think otherwise means you have missed the entire context of the discussion, and have apparenty reached the point of insanity.

That comment you quoted was in the context of your comments about the Rams game, in which you merely said Lee shouldn't have cut into LVE's playing time. I was talking about THAT COMMENT you made about THAT GAME, not the entirety of the discussion. Try and keep up.

“You were simply complaining that LVE shouldn't have come off the field, not that Lee should have been playing another position” —

from you 9 posts that way^

 

[DogFace]

He was fully healthy in games 1, 2 and 7. He started games 3 and 8 healthy, but got hurt in those games. Then he played limited snaps to protect his hamstring in 2 other games (game 14 & 16). Accordingly, there were only 3 games where he was fully healthy the entirety of each game, 2 of which were Games 1 & 2, therefore over the last 14 games of 2018 he was only fully available in Game 7.

You talked about taking out LVE in the Rams playoff game, but LVE was struggling in that game, as were a lot of players, and subbing in for a sparsely used Wilson wouldn't have addressed that. Wilson only got 10 defensive snaps in that game, so replacing him wouldn't have made an impact. Agree with it or not, those are simply decisions coaches have to make when they think a player is having difficulty.

I got my summation of your arguments from your posts. You have ignored S. Lee's injury situation in 2018 and acted as if he could have played and made an impact at SLB, and you indicated it didn't matter if LVE was having difficulty against the Rams, and that he should have been allowed to stay in and work through it. Of course, he did play 77% of the defensive snaps in that game, so he didn't have nearly the bench time you imagine.

Let me sum this up for you.

I think Lee should’ve replaced Wilson when he was ready to play. Not replace LVE. Ever.

I’m happy they’re doing that now. It’s disappointing and I think a mistake that they didn’t do that last year after it was apparent that LVE was a very good player.

Why is this so upsetting to you?

Why do you feel the need to make personal insults?

Like try to keep up..lol and so on? I’m not being sarcastic. Does it make you feel tough? Smart? I’d really like to know why people act that way when they’re anonymous.

 

[pancakeman]

It's not always opposite.

The WLB moves with the 3-tech DT.

The LBs and DL are linked together in how they play/adjust.

For example consider their most common alignment in base:
LDE 1-tech 3-tech RDE
SLB MLB WLB

If the RDE rushes to the inside then the WLB is responsible for outside contain on the RB or QB.

If the RDE rushes outside then he (RDE) has outside contain.

Huh, I thought it was always defined by where the outside guys on offense (TE) were lining up.