Sean Payton > Bill Parcells

[UVAwahoos]

Coaching absolutely did cost us that Seattle game. Conservative play calling, settling for a FG instead of being aggressive on 1st and 2nd down on the last drive, and refusing to game plan and attack a JV secondary.

Beast is no fair weather fan, Beast cries when the team losses and I watched every game during our 3, 5-11 seasons. So dont be coming at Beast with this fair weather trash.

Parcells refused to alter his "game plan" and stayed in his base defense for a freaking month even though we were getting shredded. Zimmerman basically said as much this week.

Tuna and his kronies need to go and now. He is a freaking theif for taking $20 mill from Jerry

First off, true fans can be fair weather. It's not that you don't love your team and follow them to the death, it's just that your ability to reasonably makes assessments after a Dallas loss becomes analogous to a 3 year old trying to figure out calculus.

Most of your comments are just based off of emotion and there is no true substance or even the slightest amount of confidence shown before the fact. All opinions and "told you so" statements come after facts that are obvious to EVERYONE. This, once again, has nothing to do with your love for the Cowboys. I'm sure you have a couple Cowboys coozies and whatever else is required to be a fan, but there's no real rhyme or reason that can support Payton being as good or better of a coach as Parcells at this point. It's just that emotional assessments of an early playoff exit often correlate around only the QB or head coaching position. You would get blasted for any anti-Romo threads, so you choose the anti-coaching threads.

The Saints had similar mistakes that Dallas did, but escaped with a win yesterday, so nobody is talking about the mistakes. Dallas didn't win, so everyone is looking back in retrospect. These are the fair weather traits I'm talking about. There are a lot of people in this thread who actually are reasonable and have discussed Payton's errors throughout that game yesterday. That's awesome and we actually get to learn from each other when posts like those are made.

Unfortunately, others just see that the Saints won and make this a reason to crown Payton over Parcells. In 4 years, if the Saints keep winning...come back with this thread. Until then, calm down with your fair weather fan abilities and concentrate on the fact that we don't have Payton anymore so all these points are just making you unhappy for no reason.

Finally, I'm glad you point out specific mistakes we made against Seattle. The Saints made specific mistakes against the Eagles yesterday that have also been pointed out in the thread, and are due to coaching. So by saying that Payton is better than Parcells, you're confirming that you haven't really thought any of this out at all. That's good.

 

[step]

Interesting thread. I posted this somewhere else, but it seems more appropriate here:

Hypothetical: if Sean Peyton coached the Cowboys this year (and probably started ROmo from game 1) and BP coached the Saints, would the results been the same? I don't think it's a stretch to think guys like Colsten and other rookies would have got less playing time?

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Had Parcells called that pitch back to Bush when we were ahead in a game, posters here would have been calling him a fat ****** with man boobs.

 

[BulletBob]

See the beautiful thing about fair weather fans is that at any point in the season you will sit there and try to prove absurb things. Like for instance if it were the middle of the season and the Cowboys record was 4-2 while the Saints were at 5-1, Payton would obviously be a better coach because he got his team to 5 wins before Parcells could.

There's no reason reasoning behind these thoughts, and definitely nothing of substance has been provided to show why Payton is so much better of a coach in this thread. It's just a poor opinion right now. Parcells put us in a position to have the same amount of playoff victories that Payton has with his team right now, but Romo screwed it up.

That's all you need to worry about. And thank you for calling me a genius. I hear it a lot, but it means more coming from such a thoughtful and elaborate poster.

OK - point taken. Let's try some logical reasoning.

Obviously, stating that Payton is a better coach than Parcells is an unreasonable statement, because Payton does not have the track record that Parcells has.

All we can compare them on is this year, since this is the only year in the history of the NFL that both Payton and Parcells were coaches. Fair enough?

Overall Record

Dallas Cowboys: 9-8
New Orleans Saints: 12-5

Head-to-Head Record (One Game)

Dallas Cowboys 17
New Orleans Saints 42

So, how can a reasonable person make the case that this year, Bill Parcells was a better Head Coach than Sean Payton?

 

[ghst187]

there isn't any doubt that Payton has what it takes and BP no longer does. Apparently, BP can't coach without great assistants. His teams are never ready to play, he continues to rely on winning 11 one-on-one matchups on every down, and he meddles to much in the Offense and Defense playcalling/schemes.
Payton would kill to have our roster, he might have gone 14-2 or better with it IMO. He's made a nine-course elegant dinner with mincemeat down there. Sure Brees, Bush, and Colston are good players....but c'mon....TO, Witten, Glenn, Crayton, Roy, Newman, and Ware....
Our roster was so vastly superior to theirs that it isn't even funny. NO expected to be in a rebuilding mode this year and it really looks like they will win the superbowl, and its ONLY because Payton has outschemed, tricked, and outprepared nearly every team they've played and he has his players believing. BP should've been embarrassed on a colossal level after getting destroyed by him.
Who knows if Payton's success will continue indefinitely beyond this season, but he's already done with that toilet franchise/roster in ONE year what we expected BP to do but COULDN'T in THREE....build a playoff contender and win a playoff game.
Funny how Fossil fired Payton and then BP let him go and it turns out it was the dinosaurs who were holding back the next generation of coaching brilliance.

 

[Doomsday]

there isn't any doubt that Payton has what it takes and BP no longer does.

You lost me right after I read that. There is alot of doubt so no sense reading any further.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Maybe I am stating the obvious here, but does anyone else think that Sean Payton is Bill Parcells with more ingenuity on offense? His teams always seem to be well prepared, disciplined, and prepared for any event. That botched punt that turned into a first down reminded me of the Randal Williams off-sides kick for a touchdown in 2003.

If only Bill had left last year instead of this year. I think it was clear to everyone on this board that Payton would do great things with the Saints, but none of us saw it coming this quick.

Dont get me wrong.. I think Sean learned alot from BP... but I think he also knows BP's shortcomings as a coach and didnt go that route.

So I agree. Sean is BP with more ingenuity and flat out coaching sense.

Now thats he's out from under Bill's choke hold he can show the world the real Sean Payton.

Agreed. I thought Sean really sucked.... but he is showing us that he is real deal when calling ALL the shots... he must have been biting his tongue when working under Fassel and Parcells.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Then ultimately Parcells needs to exit stage left. This team is not void of talent.

Your sig HILARIOUS....

Its actually good for the Eagles... McNabb wins for losing on this one

 

[Bleu Star]

Interesting thread. I posted this somewhere else, but it seems more appropriate here:

Hypothetical: if Sean Peyton coached the Cowboys this year (and probably started ROmo from game 1) and BP coached the Saints, would the results been the same? I don't think it's a stretch to think guys like Colsten and other rookies would have got less playing time?

Excellent point! Spot on. Guys like Colsten would have barely sniffed the playing surface. Spot on post man...

 

[Bleu Star]

OK - point taken. Let's try some logical reasoning.

Obviously, stating that Payton is a better coach than Parcells is an unreasonable statement, because Payton does not have the track record that Parcells has.

All we can compare them on is this year, since this is the only year in the history of the NFL that both Payton and Parcells were coaches. Fair enough?

Overall Record

Dallas Cowboys: 9-8
New Orleans Saints: 12-5

Head-to-Head Record (One Game)

Dallas Cowboys 17
New Orleans Saints 42

So, how can a reasonable person make the case that this year, Bill Parcells was a better Head Coach than Sean Payton?

You can't argue with this year. I guess it takes a few more years of Parcells and his coached team getting pounded into the turf for some to realize that perhaps he needs to go sit in his rocking chair.

 

[Bleu Star]

Your sig HILARIOUS....

Its actually good for the Eagles... McNabb wins for losing on this one

Yep..lol.. this guarantees McFlabb is back at his ball hogging post next year. This is great news for eaglet fans!

 

[percyhoward]

Our roster was so vastly superior to theirs that it isn't even funny. NO expected to be in a rebuilding mode this year and it really looks like they will win the superbowl, and its ONLY because Payton has outschemed, tricked, and outprepared nearly every team they've played and he has his players believing.

Like gross overstatements much?

Offensively, you can count the number of Pro Bowls on the Cowboys' roster and the Saints' roster, then compare. You won't see anything approaching vast superiority. And that doesn't even account for Reggie Bush.

It's the coaching job of the Saint's defense that has been impressive.

Payton has not one, but really two defensive coordinators. Gary Gibbs, who was head coach at OU for six years, and "assistant head coach" Joe Vitt, who was interim HC of the Rams in 2005. Both have a ton of experience, both are defensive guys, and in fact both of them are former linebackers who became linebacker coaches. That's their area of expertise, so it should be no surprise that the they were able to get the best out of guys like Fujita and Shanle.

I agree if you're saying Parcells should be more willing to bring in a name assistant, but we're getting carried away with the Payton lovefest IMO.

 

[Bleu Star]

Like gross overstatements much?

Offensively, you can count the number of Pro Bowls on the Cowboys' roster and the Saints' roster, then compare. You won't see anything approaching vast superiority. And that doesn't even account for Reggie Bush.

It's the coaching job of the Saint's defense that has been impressive.

Payton has not one, but really two defensive coordinators. Gary Gibbs, who was head coach at OU for six years, and "assistant head coach" Joe Vitt, who was interim HC of the Rams in 2005. Both have a ton of experience, both are defensive guys, and in fact both of them are former linebackers who became linebacker coaches. That's their area of expertise, so it should be no surprise that the they were able to get the best out of guys like Fujita and Shanle.

I agree if you're saying Parcells should be more willing to bring in a name assistant, but we're getting carried away with the Payton lovefest IMO.

All due respect Percy, I believe you're doing you best to remove any deserved light from Payton as you continue to bring out defensive names. By the end of the day you will have found a 3rd defensive mind that deserves all the credit. :

I find it a little suspect to try and say Payton doesn't deserve a good portion of the credit for making things happen in NO. If the NO brass were so smitten with Gibbs or Vitt then one of them would be coaching the Saints and Payton might still be here in Dallas. Wait.. The thought of that makes me nauseous to know Payton could still be here and possibly be our next HC. Crap Percy! Why didn't they just select Vitt or Gibbs in NO??? :ralph:

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Interesting thread. I posted this somewhere else, but it seems more appropriate here:

Hypothetical: if Sean Peyton coached the Cowboys this year (and probably started ROmo from game 1) and BP coached the Saints, would the results been the same? I don't think it's a stretch to think guys like Colsten and other rookies would have got less playing time?

This is a brilliant post. Its truly black and white. Its that simple.

Bill in NO probably has Bush sitting or toting the rock up the middle then giving Duece ball at end of game.... arghh....

Colston on sideline "wasted talent"
Brees given the Bledsoe manual on how to pass the ball to DB's

 

[percyhoward]

I find it a little suspect to try and say Payton doesn't deserve a good portion of the credit for making things happen in NO.

I don't mention Gibbs and Witt to just randomly deflect credit from Payton. I mention them because the defense (with the exception of the line) doesn't have the talent that the Saints' offense has.

Haslett had the Saints at .500 every year, then...

2005:
1. No Brees
2. No Bush
3. No McAllister for 11 games
4. No home games
5. No Sean Payton

#5 was no more of a factor in 2006 than #1-4 were.

Incidentally, I liked Payton when he was here, and I hope the Saints win the Super Bowl. No agenda here, just trying to add a little perspective to the topic.

 

[DipChit]

The only reason any of this matters is because it's a what have you done for me lately type deal. Which is ok.

But had BP had his 4 years in already 3 or 4 years ago one could've just pointed to what Mora Jr. had just done in Atlanta.. 5-11 to NFC Championship game in first year.

Gruden takes over for Dungy in TB and gets a ring just like that. Course now we have the hindsight of knowing Mora would flatten out and the team would go 1 under .500 since then and that Gruden would be 10 games under .500 since then.

In other words theres just as much likelyhood that Payton goes 7-9 next year, regardless of what he personally does, as not.

But for as it stands now, he's had a great year.

 

[step]

Draftboard 2007: "In Ireland We Trust"

OL: OT Jake Long, Doug Free, Ben Grubbs, Josh Beekman
WRs: Calvin Johnson/WR Dwayne Jarrett, Meachem

How do you expect the Cowboys to get Calvin Johnson?

 

[percyhoward]

Hypothetical: if Sean Peyton coached the Cowboys this year (and probably started ROmo from game 1) and BP coached the Saints, would the results been the same?

Hypothetical II: If Haslett coached the 2006 Saints, and Payton coached the 2005 version, would the results have been any different?

 

[ghst187]

How do you expect the Cowboys to get Calvin Johnson?

big trade:
Detroit, Oakland, and Arizona have top picks....JJ has a good relationship with Al Davis...., Detroit isn't taking a WR, Arizona isn't either. They may be interested in a trade.
Would CJ be worth it? hmmm don't know...but he actually might be. I think Dwayne Jarrett is the poor man's version and will be had for cheaper.

 

[AtlCB]

When will it be appropriate? When Payton w3ins his 5th playoff game? When he wins a Super Bowl? Please clue me in on when it will be appropriate.

How about when he wins his 2nd superbowl.