Sean Payton > Bill Parcells

[AbeBeta]

please, that was an atrocious team last yr...they arnt a loaded team...he coached alot of guys up and made this team eons better...their OL and defense were absolute train wrecks

David

Their talent level was far better than their record. They pretty much played every game on the road. I didn't say they were great -- but they were not the awful team you say they were -- they were a mediocre team that fell apart because of adversity.

 

[ThreeSportStar80]

The Cowboys would be wise to go after Payton in a couple of years because he's an excellent coach! Two reasons:

1. He knows how to beat the Eagles, which is obvious after last night.
2. He knows how to open an offense up.

 

[percyhoward]

please, that was an atrocious team last yr...they arnt a loaded team...he coached alot of guys up and made this team eons better...their OL and defense were absolute train wrecks

As has been shown in this thread, they weren't an "atrocious" team last year. They were a .500 team playing under atrocious circumstances.

And Payton has little to do with the defense being better. Unless you refer to his decision to hire Gibbs. That was Payton's first hire, and it was apparently a great one.

Who did Payton coach up?

 

[Bleu Star]

Maybe I am stating the obvious here, but does anyone else think that Sean Payton is Bill Parcells with more ingenuity on offense? His teams always seem to be well prepared, disciplined, and prepared for any event. That botched punt that turned into a first down reminded me of the Randal Williams off-sides kick for a touchdown in 2003.

If only Bill had left last year instead of this year. I think it was clear to everyone on this board that Payton would do great things with the Saints, but none of us saw it coming this quick.

No worries. They merged us but these blind Tuna followers are really after me when they say "original thread poster". I'll gladly joust with them. No sweat at all.

 

[Skin]

I liked Payton as a play-caller when he was here, but I question how big a part he has really played in the Saints' turnaround from 3-13 to the NFCC. He deserves his due credit, as does the whole team, but he isn't the savior of the franchise.

Haslett always had the Saints around .500 with Brooks at QB (records of 8-8, 8-8, 9-7, 7-9, and 10-6 going back over his years prior to last year) then comes Katrina. The team is living out of a suitcase for an entire season, their best player, McAllister misses eleven games, and this .500 team drops to an extremely misleading 3-13. What should be the expectations in that situation?

Exit Haslett and Brooks, enter Payton along with a very fortunate series of events. Miami says no to a Pro Bowl QB, Houston says no to a Heisman RB, and both players fall into Payton's lap. 16 regular season games and 2,212 YAC yards later, Payton is Coach of the Year.

NO got over 1,000 YAC yards from their backs alone. That's a big pad to Drew Brees' passer rating, and also to the Saints' total offense stats, making Payton look like an offensive genius.

Counting returns, rush yards, and YAC, Bush gained 1,502 yards running with the ball this year. Any bets he won't crack 2,000 next year?

Looking at the weapons NO has on offense, and how guys like Bradie James got worse since last year, I'd say our real loss wasn't Payton, but Gibbs.

There's a guy who should be coordinator of the year, if there is such an award.

They definitely have some talent on offense, then, so do we. Having said that, can you say Fujita, Shanle, Simoneau, Fred Thomas and various other players that shouldn't measure up to our level of talent on D? They lost Daren Howard in the off-season to the Iggles who was one of their top pass rushers. They do have Charles Grant, but come on now... Maybe it's the system we have in place on D that puts our best pass rusher on wide receivers (and, please don't blame that on Zimmer) and doesn't appropriately utilize the talent we have.

 

[percyhoward]

They definitely have some talent on offense, then, so do we. Having said that, can you say Fujita, Shanle, Simoneau, Fred Thomas and various other players that shouldn't measure up to our level of talent on D? They lost Daren Howard in the off-season to the Iggles who was one of their top pass rushers. They do have Charles Grant, but come on now... Maybe it's the system we have in place on D that puts our best pass rusher on wide receivers (and, please don't blame that on Zimmer) and doesn't appropriately utilize the talent we have.

Which is why Gibbs deserves a lot of credit.

 

[Cowboy4ever]

As BP would say, I wouldn't put Payton n the HOF just yet. He has a a great year and what he has done with that team is completely amazing. But at the same time, the real test is managing the cap, getting the right players year after year, running a great scouting department. I guess what I am trying to say, is that one doesn't make a player and it don't make a coach in the NFL. I can name 50 coach's that had a few good years.. but won't ever be considered for the HOF.

But I do like Payton and I think he will be very successful in the league. I wonder if he will be remembered by Cowboys fans as the one that got away , 20 years from now.

 

[Bleu Star]

Which is why Gibbs deserves a lot of credit.

Gibbs and Payton both deserve loads of credit. Remember, we're talking about a HC that doesn't stifle his coordinators ala the Parcells way. I believe the lessons Payton learned playing for Parcells will speak volumes in his years to come as a HC. He will never stifle his guys the way Tuna loves to do.

 

[Skin]

Which is why Gibbs deserves a lot of credit.

I think Payton deserves some credit for bringing him over as well. I wonder if he allows Gibbs to actually coach the D?

 

[Skin]

As BP would say, I wouldn't put Payton n the HOF just yet. He has a a great year and what he has done with that team is completely amazing. But at the same time, the real test is managing the cap, getting the right players year after year, running a great scouting department. I guess what I am trying to say, is that one doesn't make a player and it don't make a coach in the NFL. I can name 50 coach's that had a few good years.. but won't ever be considered for the HOF.

But I do like Payton and I think he will be very successful in the league. I wonder if he will be remembered by Cowboys fans as the one that got away , 20 years from now.

Just a request...can we please quit saying, "as BP would say"? I am so sick of his tired old BS. The only thing I want to hear him say is "I quit."

 

[percyhoward]

Gibbs and Payton both deserve loads of credit.

Compare the Saints' talent, offense v defense.

 

[AbeBeta]

They definitely have some talent on offense, then, so do we. Having said that, can you say Fujita, Shanle, Simoneau, Fred Thomas and various other players that shouldn't measure up to our level of talent on D? They lost Daren Howard in the off-season to the Iggles who was one of their top pass rushers. They do have Charles Grant, but come on now... Maybe it's the system we have in place on D that puts our best pass rusher on wide receivers (and, please don't blame that on Zimmer) and doesn't appropriately utilize the talent we have.

They did well getting some mid-level talent in there -- Hollis Thomas, Sim, Fujita, Shanle to pair with the first rounders they have at DE and the D-backfield they've spent pick after pick on.

But a lot of their D's performance hinged on the O being so very good. They were near the top of the league in TOP, first in yardage. That suggests that the D benefited from the opposition playing from behind.

This isn't about one guy doing a good job -- it is about the entire staff doing well and it happening in a way that gains on one side benefit the other.

 

[percyhoward]

I wonder if he allows Gibbs to actually coach the D?

He'd have no reason to think he knew more about defenses than Gibbs.

 

[Geddy]

As BP would say, I wouldn't put Payton n the HOF just yet. He has a a great year and what he has done with that team is completely amazing. But at the same time, the real test is managing the cap, getting the right players year after year, running a great scouting department. I guess what I am trying to say, is that one doesn't make a player and it don't make a coach in the NFL. I can name 50 coach's that had a few good years.. but won't ever be considered for the HOF.

But I do like Payton and I think he will be very successful in the league. I wonder if he will be remembered by Cowboys fans as the one that got away , 20 years from now.

Speaking of the Cap, the Saints are 30 Million UNDER!! the cap next year. The team can set up a dynasty if it so wishes

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Unfortunately, lately,

Gary Gibbs > Parcells

 

[percyhoward]

Unfortunately, lately,

Gary Gibbs > Parcells

I'd have to agree that, this year, Gibbs + Vitt > Parcells + Zimmer

Now I've got a headache from the math.

 

[Beast_from_East]

No it's right on point actually. If Payton had lost tonight, you wouldn't be saying a thing about him being better than Parcells right now, just like you'd shut up about it if he loses next weekend, and just like you'd be a homer if we had won last weekend. The best fair weather fans come out at only the opportune times. When things are going well, yall stay don't have these fair weather thoughts.

Like I said a moment ago, and you chose to ignore...the coaching put us in a position to win that game and the players didn't execute. Hang Romo with your profound thought process as equally as you're trying to hang Parcells.

If you don't have a problem with Romo's execution, but DO have a problem with the coaching, than you're obviously a confused fair weather fan also. Once again, the coaching did not cost us the Seattle game. Payton nearly lost the game today on that big Bush fumble. That would've been a collaspe, and this thread wouldn't even exist then. True fair weather characteristics.

Coaching absolutely did cost us that Seattle game. Conservative play calling, settling for a FG instead of being aggressive on 1st and 2nd down on the last drive, and refusing to game plan and attack a JV secondary.

Beast is no fair weather fan, Beast cries when the team losses and I watched every game during our 3, 5-11 seasons. So dont be coming at Beast with this fair weather trash.

Parcells refused to alter his "game plan" and stayed in his base defense for a freaking month even though we were getting shredded. Zimmerman basically said as much this week.

Tuna and his kronies need to go and now. He is a freaking theif for taking $20 mill from Jerry

 

[Bleu Star]

Coaching absolutely did cost us that Seattle game. Conservative play calling, settling for a FG instead of being aggressive on 1st and 2nd down on the last drive, and refusing to game plan and attack a JV secondary.

Beast is no fair weather fan, Beast cries when the team losses and I watched every game during our 3, 5-11 seasons. So dont be coming at Beast with this fair weather trash.

Parcells refused to alter his "game plan" and stayed in his base defense for a freaking month even though we were getting shredded. Zimmerman basically said as much this week.

Tuna and his kronies need to go and now. He is a freaking theif for taking $20 mill from Jerry

Beast and Bleu think very much alike.

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Way to call a toss play when you're trying to run out the clock, Payton.

I thought the same thing, they got away with it but still.

He also benefited from Fatso punting with under two minutes to go.

 

[Fan Since 77]

I've jumped in this thread way too late, but I just want to say that you can't blame everything on Parcells. There was plenty of blame to go around, and I wish people would understand this.