Sean Taylor's felony charges have wrecked several lives

StanleySpadowski

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If Commanders fans want to discuss the criminal records of the thugs/victims in this case, don't you think it would also be fair to discuss the criminal records of the thugs/posse that accompanied Taylor on his little vigilante mission?


I doubt you really want to compare rap sheets. There weren't any choir boys involved.
 

trickblue

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rdsknsbaby said:
does that matter?!?!?!?! they were stolen. it doesnt matter who they were stolen from... they were still stolen... you learn how to read
ummm... yes it does... if he didn't steal Taylor's ATV's then Taylor certainly wasn't justified in brandishing a weapon at him...

They did NOT recover his ATV's from Hill...

Me learn how to read? Your blinding homerism doesn't allow you to think straight...

Now, I have been very civil in this thread and I've never even had dialogue with you to my knowledge, so I suggest you back off...

It's not very smart to bring a knife to a gun fight...
 

MossBurner

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trickblue said:
One of us DID read the article (hint: It was me)... :D

The Taylor incident was in June of 2005...

The alledged stolen ATV's in Hill's truck were discovered on March 4, 2006...

http://img.***BLOCKED***/albums/v628/cowboyszone/thread_stuff/learn_to_read.jpg ;)

You asked for proof that he stole ATVs. Stolen ATVs were found in a truck that he was driving. That's what I said.
 

MossBurner

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StanleySpadowski said:
If Commanders fans want to discuss the criminal records of the thugs/victims in this case, don't you think it would also be fair to discuss the criminal records of the thugs/posse that accompanied Taylor on his little vigilante mission?


I doubt you really want to compare rap sheets. There weren't any choir boys involved.

I have never heard about Sean's friends criminal history...Are you making this up?
 

StanleySpadowski

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MossBurner said:
I have never heard about Sean's friends criminal history...Are you making this up?



I'd suggest doing a little research before accusing me of "making it up" and just because you've never heard about something doesn't mean squat to the veracity. You probably haven't heard that two plus two equals four but that doesn't make it any less of a undisputable fact.
 

MossBurner

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StanleySpadowski said:
I'd suggest doing a little research before accusing me of "making it up" and just because you've never heard about something doesn't mean squat to the veracity. You probably haven't heard that two plus two equals four but that doesn't make it any less of a undisputable fact.

I've read every article from Miami-based, DC-based, and Richmond-based newspapers concerning this case since last summer.

Not once have any specific comments been made about the criminal convictions or questionable legal problems of Sean's friends.

Last fall, the Washington Post reported that Sean's friend refused a plea deal that would have avoided himself jailtime if he would testify against Sean.

Last winter, an investigative report in the Washington Post interviewed many of Sean's neighbors in Miami that he grew up with. Several of them said that he didn't "hang with the best crowd". But Sean grew up in the ghettos of Miami, so...

Don't throw around false information and not expect to get called out on it. You were wrong. Past convictions of the thieves in Sean's case are the only ones that have been made public around this case.
 

sacase

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MossBurner said:
But Sean grew up in the ghettos of Miami, so...

Don't throw around false information and not expect to get called out on it. You were wrong. Past convictions of the thieves in Sean's case are the only ones that have been made public around this case.

:bang2: Sean Taylor NEVER grew up in the damn ghetto!!!!!! He has no excuse except he thinks the ghetto lifestyle is cool. He wants to live the music video.
 

MossBurner

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sacase said:
:bang2: Sean Taylor NEVER grew up in the damn ghetto!!!!!! He has no excuse except he thinks the ghetto lifestyle is cool. He wants to live the music video.

CORRECTION: Sean and Ryan Hill (ATV thief) both grew up in the worst neighborhoods of Miami.
 

WoodysGirl

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MossBurner said:
I've read every article from Miami-based, DC-based, and Richmond-based newspapers concerning this case since last summer.

Not once have any specific comments been made about the criminal convictions or questionable legal problems of Sean's friends.
I tend to stay out of these threads, but did you read the very first post in this thread? I wanted to point out that convictions or not, this McFarlane cat is one bad dude and Taylor was his boy. They were FRIENDS.

Article said:
When Taylor's rookie season ended in early 2005, he chose to return to Miami rather than stay in Virginia near the Commanders. He sometimes crashed with friends like Michael McFarlane, a Jamaican who lived in West Perrine near Ryan Hill.

-----

On the last day of May 2005, after cruising the area with a friend, Taylor parked his new ATVs at McFarlane's house. Taylor left the vehicles overnight, though he did not stay at the house himself, according to Carhart.

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The house is a compact ranch on a street where rims are stolen off cars in broad daylight. Michael Bowen, the current owner, bought the house nine months ago. Bowen says McFarlane left plenty behind when he moved out.

"I found at least 200 pairs of Timberlands, all brand-new, never been worn," says Bowen, referring to expensive and trendy hiking boots. "He left closets full of new clothes, fashionable stuff that didn't fit me, unfortunately. There were hundreds of photographs of people with machine guns and naked women sitting on their laps, boxes of photographs that I finally threw away a couple months ago."

In a laundry room near an in-ground pool, Bowen pulls down a box, which he opens to reveal shiny rows of ammunition.

"There were buckets of bullets when I moved in here," he says. "Buckets! Shotgun shells, handgun shells, machine gun, everything. Bullets in the shed, in every bedroom, everywhere, thousands of bullets."

In a maroon storage shed located in the back yard, Bowen says he unearthed cases of hard liquor. He points at a red Igloo cooler splattered with mud.
"That's where I found the marijuana, at least a pound of it," he says. "This was a party crib, for sure."

All of that was in the VERY FIRST post... McFarlane was gangsta no doubt about it...May not have been convicted for anything as of yet, but no doubt that house was a "thug mansion" and he and Taylor were tight.

You know the saying, "birds of a feather"

I'd hate to see a talent like Taylor get taken down, but when you put yourself in these idiotic positions, you deserve whatever you get.
 

trickblue

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MossBurner said:
You asked for proof that he stole ATVs. Stolen ATVs were found in a truck that he was driving. That's what I said.
No I certainly did NOT... believe me... I know what I said...

here are the exact quotes...

trickblue said:
Where is the proof they stole his ATVs?

trickblue said:
Again... playing Devil's advocate, where is the proof that Hill stole his ATV's?

You are justifying him waving a gun but yet there is no proof that Hill committed the crime...

I would have a BIG problem having a gun waved in my face at any time, ESPECIALLY if I didn't do the crime...
I love spirited banter as long as it doesn't get personal...

What I don't like, is being misquoted...

Again... several of you have alluded to the fact that Taylor was justfied because Hill stole his ATV's...

I'm just looking for the proof... they are obviously both idiot thugs, but that doesn't mean either is guilty or innocent...

You are giving Taylor the benefit of the doubt and not Hill...

You CAN have it both ways, it's just not clear, logical thinking...
 

riggo

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DragonCowboy said:
Wow, you're such a ******* homer! What if Grieco didn't make his MySpace page?

dragon, wake up, dude. do a search on myspace and you'll find a bunch of myspace pages supposedly made by the skins sean taylor.

thats not homerism- its common sense. (homerism from me? the guy who believes he waved a gun? ok...)

and there is no question that that is/was greico's page. there was never a reason to question why someone would make a page about his DJ business and pretend it was him. and he never denied it was his page.

i can't believe i just had to explain that???? :confused:


Channel 10 has the Miami-Dade State Attorney's Office response:
While nothing on Assistant State Attorney Mike Grieco's Web site compromised the integrity of the Sean Taylor case, Mr. Grieco, as the prosecutor, feels that the case is more important than any individual who would prosecute it. The desire to smear a prosecutor and affect a potential jury pool is a reprehensible trial tactic. Every case should be decided by the relevant evidence presented to a jury.

"To insure the proper handling of this case, Mr. Grieco has reluctantly asked to have another Assistant State Attorney replace him as he sees himself becoming the courtroom focus, rather than the individual charged with the criminal offense.

"Unfortunately, Mr. Grieco had not deleted the messages and images sent to him at his personal website. That has been rectified and he has disabled the website."
yeah. your probably right. it cant be his site....
 

StanleySpadowski

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MossBurner said:
I've read every article from Miami-based, DC-based, and Richmond-based newspapers concerning this case since last summer.

Not once have any specific comments been made about the criminal convictions or questionable legal problems of Sean's friends.

Last fall, the Washington Post reported that Sean's friend refused a plea deal that would have avoided himself jailtime if he would testify against Sean.

Last winter, an investigative report in the Washington Post interviewed many of Sean's neighbors in Miami that he grew up with. Several of them said that he didn't "hang with the best crowd". But Sean grew up in the ghettos of Miami, so...

Don't throw around false information and not expect to get called out on it. You were wrong. Past convictions of the thieves in Sean's case are the only ones that have been made public around this case.


I see WG already schooled you somewhat but good gawd almighty are you really that obtuse?

Just because something isn't included in newspaper articles means it doesn't exist? or isn't "public"?

There's this really neat new thing called the interweb or something like that. Ya get on your computer and go to this place called "Google" and type something in (like the name of Taylor's acquaintances) and all kinds of stories pop up on your computer (you know, like public arrest records and that sort of thing).
 

MossBurner

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StanleySpadowski said:
I see WG already schooled you somewhat but good gawd almighty are you really that obtuse?

Just because something isn't included in newspaper articles means it doesn't exist? or isn't "public"?

There's this really neat new thing called the interweb or something like that. Ya get on your computer and go to this place called "Google" and type something in (like the name of Taylor's acquaintances) and all kinds of stories pop up on your computer (you know, like public arrest records and that sort of thing).

The burden of proof about these convictions is on you. Google away bud.

I'm not saying ST's friends are choir boys; these guys aren't my friends. I'm just saying that I have never read about convictions of ST's friends. As much as newspapers (even in DC) love to smear Sean and parade this case, I would have thought that these hypothetical convictions would have been leaked to the public by now. They haven't and you're assuming that they exist.
 

peplaw06

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riggo said:
heres a better summary-
"So let me get this straight. Taylor owns some atvs. Has them on his property. A couple of ******** thugs steal his atvs. Taylor supposedly pulls a gun?? Is that it? He pulled a gun??? Whats the big deal? Seems to me the retards are lucky they didnt get shot."

yep. thats a good one.
Sorry to jump in so late here, but had to correct a few things. Defense of property doesn't allow someone to go waving guns around because someone allegedly stole their property. The only property that is defensible in this manner is your home, and that's not even always defensible. This is according to federal Criminal law
riggo said:
if you all werent so homerific, you'd see that the article states that the states star witnessand the person who had charges dropped is a convicted felon.

""Honestly, on my daddy, we did not steal that stuff from him," said Williams, a high school dropout who describes himself as ********. Hill, talking outside his mother's apartment, insists he is not a criminal. He claims to have no idea who shot Taylor's Yukon. He says he's never stolen an ATV.
Is this section you quoted supposed to state where Hill is a "convicted felon," because I don't see it. I didn't see it anywhere else in the article either. i'm just going off what's in this article though, if you have other proof that he's a felon then I apologize.

Also, this information probably won't be allowed into evidence, unless Hill opens the door by testifying affirmatively about it. Uncharged/unconvicted offenses typically aren't allowed to impeach a witness unless they open the door themselves.
riggo said:
Police disagreed on that last claim, at least briefly.
On Saturday, March 4, of this year, at 3:10 in the morning, two Miami-Dade Police officers pulled over a 2002 Chevy pickup occupied by two black men. In the bed of the truck sat an ATV with the ignition ripped out. A check of its seventeen-digit vehicle identification number revealed the ATV had been stolen the day before.
The passenger was Maurice "Fat Boy" Williams. The driver was Ryan Hill. The pair was arrested for grand theft, but those charges were dropped a month later."

dropped? why in the hell were the charges dropped?
Charges are typically dropped when the prosecution doesn't have the evidence to convict. Who knows what they had from this blurb??
riggo said:
a circus clown could win an acquittal in this case. you could see that if you took off the glasses...
If a circus clown could win an acquittal in this case, the case wouldn't be going forward.

riggo said:
ok. so, in summary...

a self admitted retarted man who was pulled over with stolen ATV's- but the charges are dropped - steals ATV's from taylor, he waves a gun in an attempt to get them back, gets shot at, the prosecutor get dismissed for using his position to further his career as a DJ, taylor rejects an offer that includes no jail time.....

nothing wierd there.
The allegedly stolen ATV's weren't Taylor's at least, not according to this article. And if Taylor waved the gun first, he should expect to get shot at. That means he's the instigator. The shooters could easily claim self-defense in that scenario.

The prosecutor's dismissal for trying to further his career as a DJ hardly has anything to do with the merits of the State's case against Taylor. The prosecutor messed up, but it didn't affect the evidence in the case. He has been dismissed, so the state has no concerns about him anymore.

And did Taylor really reject an offer that included no jail time?? I wanna see that proof, because if he did, that's ********.

Someone stated that a possible witness rejected an offer for no jail time in exchange for testimony against Taylor, but that's not the same. That is just an instance of someone taking up for his boy, but now he could be prosecuted too if he refused the deal.

MossBurner said:
In Florida where the penalties are ridiculous, no.

If he were convicted in Virginia with a first time offense, sure. He would get no jail time for brandishing a weapon. Probably suspended 2 games.
Go back and read the part where the possible sentence comes from the mandatory minimum sentencing guidelines. Meaning Federal law mandates that if he's convicted, he will serve at least 3 years. Therefore it doesn't matter if it's in Florida or Virginia.
 

Alexander

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TEK2000 said:
Great argument.. you just proved absolutely nothing. If he's convicted, I guess its wrong for you to love the TEAM that Sean Taylor played on...?

Just to enlighten you.. there's a BIG DIFFERENCE between loving the TEAM that someone plays for and loving THE PLAYER. A simply example: Many Cowboy fans despise Terrell Owens but still LOVE THE TEAM that he plays for.

And there are a few members of the lunatic fringe who LOVED Irvin no matter what, but speaking for myself and friends I had at that time, many of us were livid that Irvin was continually compromising the franchise with his antics and wouldn't hesistate to label him what he was, an immature punk who needed to grow up.

What I see in this case is no acknowledgment of facts, and blind hero worship on the part of idiot Commander fans on the side of Taylor. The very same individuals who made offhand comments about the Cowboys and their reputation for years (and still ignorantly do). That is the crux of this whole arguement.
 

MossBurner

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Alexander said:
And there are a few members of the lunatic fringe who LOVED Irvin no matter what, but speaking for myself and friends I had at that time, many of us were livid that Irvin was continually compromising the franchise with his antics and wouldn't hesistate to label him what he was, an immature punk who needed to grow up.

What I see in this case is no acknowledgment of facts, and blind hero worship on the part of idiot Commander fans on the side of Taylor. The very same individuals who made offhand comments about the Cowboys and their reputation for years (and still ignorantly do). That is the crux of this whole arguement.

Sean has been convicted of nothing. I hate that he spit at Pittman in the playoff game. Other than that, I have no problems with him and his personal life and character. If he is convicted of this crime, my opinion of him will change. The US has a judicial system for a reason.
 

SkinFaninOKC

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Ryan Hill is not a great witness. He will get torn to pieces on the witness stand. The dude got caught with stolen ATV's then the case get thrown out a month later?? ***!!! Maybe the county prosecutors are out to get Sean?? He is a big fish in THAT pond.

ST says he didn't brandish a gun. Several others said he did. Who is telling the truth?? That is up to the jury unless the case gets thrown out. Everyone involved in the situation, ST included, are of questionable character.

It's too bad ST got himself in this mess and I hope he doesn't do any jail time. However if he does go to jail I would hope Dan Snyder would welcome him back and give him a second chance. The guy is incredible. ST just needs to not "keep it real."
 

Alexander

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MossBurner said:
I hate that he spit at Pittman in the playoff game.

And he also spat on T.J. Houshmandzadeh.

He is a scumbag, on and off the field. It is his character. He has no class and is a punk thug.

Other than that, I have no problems with him and his personal life and character. If he is convicted of this crime, my opinion of him will change. The US has a judicial system for a reason.

Again, you condone thuggery on and off the field, yet you all condemn and ridicule misdeeds of the Cowboys that all occurred off the field. Yet the hypocrisy doesn't register.
 

Yeagermeister

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Like I have said all along. If he gets anything it will be a slap on the wrist because he's a pro athlete. I except maybe probabtion or community service at the most.
 
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