Sensabaugh has visits lined up — 3:30 p.m.

[Hostile]

This is all I'm against. That and the apparent attitude that Ken Hamlin is the worst safety in the NFL.

He needs to improve or go, but he isn't the worst in the NFL. He is upper echelon of the NFC in fact. If we change one of the two starters that is fine with me. But changing both is suicide.

 

[bbgun]

You might want to read the thread again and pay closer attention. I saw at least 3 posters who want a rookie and Atogwe.

Trademark condescension aside, I can read just fine, thanks. Atogwe + a rookie is not as drastic a move as starting two pure rookies, which is what the Niners did in '81.

Ronnie Lott was the greatest Safety of all time. Wright played CB, not Safety

Yes, I know. Which is why I said the analogy was "imperfect."

In actuality, in 1981 so did Lott. Their starting Safeties in 1981 were Dwight Hicks and Carlton Williamson. So this doesn't fit the model even remotely close.

So they can win with two raw rookies at critical positions, but we can't win with two new safeties (only one of whom is likely to be a rookie)? Debatable. For the record, I don't endorse getting rid of both safeties, but let's stop pretending that the current duo is indispensable.

 

[TheSport78]

He needs to improve or go, but he isn't the worst in the NFL. He is upper echelon of the NFC in fact. If we change one of the two starters that is fine with me. But changing both is suicide.

I think it's more of the contract he's being paid. The bottom line in the NFL is if you're not playing up to your contract's standards, your team will try to upgrade the position. The NFL for players is really a year to year basis, unless you're an elite quarterback like Brees, Manning, or Brady.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I think it's more of the contract he's being paid. The bottom line in the NFL is if you're not playing up to your contracts standards, your team will try to upgrade the position. The NFL for players is really a year to year basis, unless you're an elite quarterback like Brees, Manning, or Brady.

Or at least get cheaper there for the same production.

 

[ThrowuptheXDez88]

Trademark condescension aside, I can read just fine, thanks. Atogwe + a rookie is not as drastic a move as starting two pure rookies, which is what the Niners did in '81.



Yes, I know. Which is why I said the analogy was "imperfect."



So they can win with two raw rookies at critical positions, but we can't win with two new safeties (only one of whom is likely to be a rookie)? Debatable. For the record, I don't endorse getting rid of both safeties, but let's stop pretending that the current duo is indispensable.

lol when you have to go back nearly 30 years, then I wouldn't take our chances and do the same haha

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Otoghwe -- FS
Mike Hamlin -- SS

/thread

 

[Rampage]

Otoghwe -- FS
Sensabaugh-- SS

/thread

fify

Jerry will resign Sensy

 

[Suave]

The NFL is a what have you done for me lately league. The past two years, Hamlin has been a below average, mediocre at BEST safety. The guy was playing in a contract year and then after he got his money, he makes no impact plays after that. It's inexcusable to have Ware, Spencer, Ratliff rushing the passer and your safeties COMBINED the past two years have TWO INTERCEPTIONS. Yeah, Thomas hasn't played a down in the NFL, but this kid has so much potential. Sensabaugh and Hamlin are not going to get any better. When you have a chance to get a playmaker in college like Thomas, and has the ability to play CORNER as well, you have to jump over the guy if you have a chance at him.

Exactly. The operative words in this paragraph were "contract year." Ever since that year, his performance has depreciated to the extent that he has now become expendable.

The next great season Ken Hamlin will have is when it is a contract year.

 

[bbgun]

lol when you have to go back nearly 30 years, then I wouldn't take our chances and do the same haha

He asked for one example that led to "greatness." That was one example, albeit with corners instead of safeties. No matter how you slice it, it was impressive.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

fify

Jerry will resign Sensy

Don't ever do that again.

 

[Hostile]

Trademark condescension aside, I can read just fine, thanks. Atogwe + a rookie is not as drastic a move as starting two pure rookies, which is what the Niners did in '81.

Yes, I know. Which is why I said the analogy was "imperfect."

So they can win with two raw rookies at critical positions, but we can't win with two new safeties (only one of whom is likely to be a rookie)? Debatable. For the record, I don't endorse getting rid of both safeties, but let's stop pretending that the current duo is indispensable.

I have never done that. The rookie we start going to be as good as Wright or Lott? How do you guarantee me that? Atogwe is nowhere near their league and I can show where in the Draft he was in, I liked him. But let's stumble around in the dark looking for perfect analogies.

 

[TheSport78]

Or at least get cheaper there for the same production.

OJ and Earl! Kinda reminds me of this:

 

[bbgun]

I have never done that. The rookie we start going to be as good as Wright or Lott? How do you guarantee me that? Atogwe is nowhere near their league and I can show where in the Draft he was in, I liked him. But let's stumble around in the dark looking for perfect analogies.

I was merely answering your quasi-trivia question. Doesn't mean I see the Niners' good fortune as a modern-day blueprint for success. Atogwe is Slate's obsession, not mine. I can live with Ham-Sens for another year.

 

[gimmesix]

let's stop pretending that the current duo is indispensable.

As long as others will stop pretending that we can easily replace them, or are guaranteed to get suitable replacements.

 

[bbgun]

As long as others will stop pretending that we can easily replace them, or are guaranteed to get suitable replacements.

I agree, two new safeties verges on fantasy land, esp when you consider that neither SS nor FS constitutes a "crying need."

 

[Hostile]

I was merely answering your quasi-trivia question. Doesn't mean I see the Niners' good fortune as a modern-day blueprint for success. Atogwe is Slate's obsession, not mine. I can live with Ham-Sens for another year.

Aw gotcha, it was about me.

:wink2:

 

[big dog cowboy]

Jerry won't let Sensy walk.

 

[jobberone]

Where is all of this no shot at ET coming from? Care to explain why you think he is going in the top 15? I just don't see two safeties being selected in the top 15 at all.

Berry and Thomas are supposed to go in the top 15. Of course there are mocks that don't have two going early. I understand there are 40 first round picks predicted in the first round. I expect one to fall some as there is going to be a run on DLs and OLs in the first. But Thomas is ahead of Mays in most mocks and evaluations and those three are very likely to go earlier than latter. This is a very unusual draft for safety firepower. In fact it's an unusually talented and deep draft period.

So I can't say with absolute certainty where anyone is going to be drafted. But I can predict what is reasonable to happen. And we don't have the firepower to move up far. Not unless we get into next years draft as well.

What's more likely to happen is Mays will fall close to us than Thomas. Even that is unlikely IMO.

 

[Hostile]

I agree, two new safeties verges on fantasy land, esp when you consider that neither SS nor FS constitutes a "crying need."

Bets post in the thread IMO.

 

[CanuckCowboysFan]

Simple, actually. You can't plug-and-play different players at different positions simply based on statistics and expect a better product on the field. A general knowledge of the overall scheme of a defense as well as the equally important yet still separate scheme of the defensive backfield is very important when evaluating talent. There are more than just off-the-field reasons why Pacman Jones was a bad signing in Dallas, for example, but since you're an expert on who excels at what, I'm sure you already know why.



It's difficult to even have a legitimate football discussion with any of you here because it becomes more apparent with each post that you both (and many others) literally know next to nothing about playing defensive back in football, or the defensive backfield as a unit in football.

I don't even know where to begin, whether it's the ridiculous screams of our lack of a pass rush for over half the season or the other, equally ridiculous screams to cut/trade/bench Terence Newman from 70% of the users here, despite your claims now of him having played at Pro Bowl caliber.

If you want to grade players individually, go right ahead. You'd fit right in to the Commanders's front office. After all, individual success is what brings championships to franchises....or 4-12 records and last place finishes in the NFC East.

I really am starting to hate fantasy football.

different positions? Last time I checked Hamlin and Atogwe played the same position. Atogwe and Hamlin had the EXACT same responsibilities and play in a extremely similar scheme in terms of what St Louis asked there FS to do, and there defensive scheme overall. So according to you, that answers why Asante Samuel and Darren Sharper have had so much success in spite of the fact that the schemes they played in, in New England and Minnesota are completely different then what they currently play in, in NO and Philly. If you're doubting Atogwe's production/skill set just look at St Louis' pass defense when he was in the line up, and look at it after he missed the last 5 games. BTW you still didn't answer my question. Where did you read that Hamlin had a 100 tackle season?