Signalgate: What is fair?

[fortdick]

You cannot forfeit games. The NFL is a business and business is about money. It's just not going to happen. At best, they could be ruled out of the playoffs. That is the most that they could forfeit in my opinion.

YEah, and take away some scholarships along with the Bowl game ban. Maybe we can have something like the BCS instead of playoffs!

 

[Nors]

Fine and a 3rd round draft pick

 

[AtlCB]

OK, then what do you do to Mancini? He knew not only that the Pats were doing it, but how they awere doing it. Why? Because he was part of it when he was with the Pats. Prolly should suspend him because he tacitly admitted he was part of it.

Psychobabble?

I really would like to know your agenda. Your arguments can't make enough sense for me to figure it out. If you can;t understand my points, I will try smaller words.

You are going to punish a coach based on baseless speculation?

 

[AbeBeta]

1. They forfeit the Jets game. Standings would then be: Jets 1-0, Pats 0-1

No way. You can't change the outcomes of games that fans paid to see or watched on TV.

 

[AbeBeta]

Fine and a 3rd round draft pick

That's how I see it ended up.

 

[cowboyfan4life_mark]

1. They forfeit the Jets game. Standings would then be: Jets 1-0, Pats 0-1

2. Belichick is suspended for 8 games. No contact with the team in any manner during that time.

3. The Patriots lose a day-1 draft pick. A 1st rounder if it ends up being #21 or lower or a 2nd rounder if they have a pick in the top-20.

If there is a second offense then it would result in a lifetime ban for Belichick and the forfeiture of multiple draft picks as well as a spot in the playoffs (if they earned one).

I agree with Thumper.

I also think that the Pats should get a fine. The team as a whole had to know that it was going on.

I will be surprised if Little Bill doesn't get at least a five game suspension like Wade Wilson did.

 

[cowboyfan4life_mark]

No way. You can't change the outcomes of games that fans paid to see or watched on TV.

That could be an arguement for the forfeit. Fans pay to see head to head games. Not cheating to head.

 

[YosemiteSam]

OK, then what do you do to Mancini? He knew not only that the Pats were doing it, but how they awere doing it. Why? Because he was part of it when he was with the Pats. Prolly should suspend him because he tacitly admitted he was part of it.

Well, I'm glad I don't have to figure that out. (The Mangini part) You never know, they may pursue that angle also.

Psychobabble?

I really would like to know your agenda. Your arguments can't make enough sense for me to figure it out. If you can;t understand my points, I will try smaller words.

Maybe you should just lookup the larger words like Psychobabble! :tongue:

 

[SkinsandTerps]

Too many options with fines. What does one of the richest teams in football care about a stupid fine.

My ideal punishment would be:

Take all first day picks away from them this year and deny them any opportunity to acquire any FA's until after the draft.

That would be more persuasive, and send the message to the rest of the NFL also.

 

[YosemiteSam]

YEah, and take away some scholarships along with the Bowl game ban. Maybe we can have something like the BCS instead of playoffs!

There you go again spewing psychobabble!

 

[Yakuza Rich]

You need to put forfeiture of the game in there as well.

Polls have shown that NFL fans feel that this hurts the integrity of the game. I'm sure it's not as bad as point shaving, but it's still something that hurts the integrity and you can't afford that to happen.

And let's say that the Pats just lose some picks and get a fine. Sure that's a good penalty, but what's to stop another team from doing this in the Conference Championship or Super Bowl? I know I would give up a few picks in order to help win the Super Bowl.

Send a message and nip it in the bud so both the NFL and the Pats can move on.



YAKUZA

 

[fortdick]

You are going to punish a coach based on baseless speculation?

It isn't baseless. HE was part of the Pats organization. HE knew exactly how they did it and had a stakeout set up.

Why are Vick's codefendants rat snitches and Mangini isn;t? He only knew how they were cheating because he participated.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7216720

Cheating more common than you think

John Czarnecki
FOXSports.com, Updated 8 hours ago
Bill Belichick isn't the only cheater out there.

But the Patriots got caught red-handed and they did because Jets coach Eric Mangini knows all of Belichick's tricks. This is why stadium security and NFL security were ready to pounce on Belichick's young camera guy last Sunday and eventually confiscate the damaging video evidence of Jets coaches signaling to their players.

Coaches, in both college and the NFL, have been cheating for decades. Anything to gain an edge come game day. The first inclination is to think that Belichick is too good of a coach to be cheating. The second thought is that he has to cheat because he knows his competition is doing it. Believe me, I have heard the stories of pro scouts sitting in the press box and putting a video camera on opposing team coaches. Teams definitely look for any edge in order to decipher signals.
How valuable is it? Well, how much would a quarterback pay to know if the defense is blitzing or not? Or what the secondary coverage was going to be? Many teams have color-coded their signals. Peyton Manning alters his verbal codes every week, making sure that the opposition doesn't know what he's calling.

NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell sent out a strong memo last season regarding the use of cameras and such and now must apply the punishment despite having a strong relationship with Patriots owner Bob Kraft. The Pats could lose a third-round draft choice, which is a pretty steep penalty. Others are suggesting multiple picks. Also, a one-game suspension is seriously being considered for Belichick. A lot of teams are suggesting that.
Honestly, this incident is very embarrassing to the league, which was truly excited about the season starting after having to deal for months with the Michael Vick dogfighting issue and the suspensions of Pacman Jones, Tank Johnson and Chris Henry. Plus, Belichick isn't any other coach. He is a three-time winner of the Super Bowl and considered a future Hall of Famer. There are going to be some fans who will wonder if those championships are now tarnished. Did Bill cheat to win them, too? There is no doubt that offensive coaches have strongly influenced the NFL's Competition Committee and that's why for the second year in a row a proposal to allow a defensive player to have a radio helmet — like the quarterback's — was defeated at the March meetings. The coach-to-defensive player radio transmitters missed by two votes, 22-10. The year before the vote was 18-14. With the Patriots getting caught, there definitely is a very good chance the defensive proposal will pass this April in Palm Beach.

"I really believe if the defense had radio helmets, coaches like Bill wouldn't be using a video camera like this," said one NFL head coach.

 

[YosemiteSam]

You need to put forfeiture of the game in there as well.

Polls have shown that NFL fans feel that this hurts the integrity of the game. I'm sure it's not as bad as point shaving, but it's still something that hurts the integrity and you can't afford that to happen.

And let's say that the Pats just lose some picks and get a fine. Sure that's a good penalty, but what's to stop another team from doing this in the Conference Championship or Super Bowl? I know I would give up a few picks in order to help win the Super Bowl.

Send a message and nip it in the bud so both the NFL and the Pats can move on.



YAKUZA

As I noted before, I just don't think they can do it. I wouldn't be fully opposed to it, but just like Barry Bonds in baseball. If he is convicted of using riods, they still arn't going to take his home run record away. People will just put a * next to it.

 

[JohnnyHopkins]

While it will not happen in this instance, I would like to see them establish a plan of foreiture of the game if something like this were to happen again where it clearly can give one team a competetive advantage.

As it sits now, I would hope they suspend Belicheck for a minimum of four games, take away their #1 pick and fine the Patriots.

Seems that this issue and the Vick one is apples and oranges. What Vick did had no impact on a game, while something like this certainly has the potential.

 

[fortdick]

You need to put forfeiture of the game in there as well.

Polls have shown that NFL fans feel that this hurts the integrity of the game. I'm sure it's not as bad as point shaving, but it's still something that hurts the integrity and you can't afford that to happen.

And let's say that the Pats just lose some picks and get a fine. Sure that's a good penalty, but what's to stop another team from doing this in the Conference Championship or Super Bowl? I know I would give up a few picks in order to help win the Super Bowl.

Send a message and nip it in the bud so both the NFL and the Pats can move on.



YAKUZA

OK, but let's get NFL security to investigate every team. Not just ones where the former asst. coach is mad at the head coach and wants to stick it to him. That is the only reason this came to light. Mangini was part of the cheating when he was in NE, and now he wants to put the screw to Belichick.

Personally, I don;t think any NFL will touch Mangini now. Once he is let go by the Jets, he may be teaching typewriter maintenance at the Rocky Columbo School for Girls.

(Yes another reference to "A Few Good Men")

 

[SkinsandTerps]

I can't see how they could justify calling a forfeit at this point Rich.

Although I could see harsher punishment than even I suggested.

 

[AbeBeta]

That could be an arguement for the forfeit. Fans pay to see head to head games. Not cheating to head.

So then why wouldn't a team have to forfeit if one of their players was found to be on steroids?

 

[SkinsandTerps]

So then why wouldn't a team have to forfeit if one of their players was found to be on steroids?

One player of 53+ doesnt equal one coach with inside information.

 

[Cochese]

Fine them, take a draft pick and move on with life.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I can't see how they could justify calling a forfeit at this point Rich.

Although I could see harsher punishment than even I suggested.

It's justified because it sends a message. If you don't, what's to really stop another team from doing the same team if they are in a huge game? And when you think about it, a loss by the Jets can affect a numerous amount of things, like people losing their jobs, missed revenue from the ownership, skewing the draft, etc, etc.

There's tons of laws in this country that have penalties attached with them that are made to not only punish the violator, but to send a message as well. And my main concern as a fan of the NFL is that if its hurting the integrity of the game in the fans eyes, you need to find a way to get that back and nip this in the bud.

What's sad is Belichick's lame excuse. It's not like the Pats owner is on the Competition Committee or anything like that.






YAKUZA