Signalgate: What is fair?

[AbeBeta]

One player of 53+ doesnt equal one coach with inside information.

What about teams like the Panthers that had a number of players on steroids?

Cheating is cheating -- penalties come after you are caught and can't be retroactive. Do overs are for children. You can't change an outcome b/c you don't know what would have happened without the cheating.

 

[dogunwo]

1. They forfeit the Jets game. Standings would then be: Jets 1-0, Pats 0-1

2. Belichick is suspended for 8 games. No contact with the team in any manner during that time.

3. The Patriots lose a day-1 draft pick. A 1st rounder if it ends up being #21 or lower or a 2nd rounder if they have a pick in the top-20.

If there is a second offense then it would result in a lifetime ban for Belichick and the forfeiture of multiple draft picks as well as a spot in the playoffs (if they earned one).

Dont think they should change on-field results, but they should come down harsh on the organization. 5+ game suspension and salary cap loss. Draft picks arent going to hurt the Pats, only two made the team anyway.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

What about teams like the Panthers that had a number of players on steroids?

Cheating is cheating -- penalties come after you are caught and can't be retroactive. Do overs are for children. You can't change an outcome b/c you don't know what would have happened without the cheating.

Cheating is cheating, but there's obviously different degrees of cheating and different penalties for such. It would be like saying "breaking the law is breaking the law" when one person is going 7 mph over the speed limit and the other committed murder.

It's tougher to do a do-over after a season has passed by in the Panthers case. You can do it now and send a message.

To me it's a case of "if you don't want to do the time, don't do the crime."




YAKUZA

 

[AbeBeta]

Cheating is cheating, but there's obviously different degrees of cheating and different penalties for such. It would be like saying "breaking the law is breaking the law" when one person is going 7 mph over the speed limit and the other committed murder.

It's tougher to do a do-over after a season has passed by in the Panthers case. You can do it now and send a message.

To me it's a case of "if you don't want to do the time, don't do the crime."

YAKUZA

You can argue the theoretical point all you want.

However, I know that you know that this is not going to result in a forfeit.

 

[fortdick]

What about teams like the Panthers that had a number of players on steroids?

Cheating is cheating -- penalties come after you are caught and can't be retroactive. Do overs are for children. You can't change an outcome b/c you don't know what would have happened without the cheating.

I have been thinking about that. Did Goodell spell out what the penalties would be for stealing signs? Whatever he decides would have been fair if he had spelled out the repercussions before hand.

 

[AtlCB]

It isn't baseless. HE was part of the Pats organization. HE knew exactly how they did it and had a stakeout set up.

Why are Vick's codefendants rat snitches and Mangini isn;t? He only knew how they were cheating because he participated.

You haven't offered any proof. It's a baseless accusation - guilt by association. Mangini could have recognized the Pats employee and noticed that he's pointing the camera at the coach relaying the defensive signals to the players on the field.

 

[fortdick]

You haven't offered any proof. It's a baseless accusation - guilt by association. Mangini could have recognized the Pats employee and noticed that he's pointing the camera at the coach relaying the defensive signals to the players on the field.

Ah, shouldn't Mangini been on the Jets sideline?

 

[AtlCB]

Ah, shouldn't Mangini been on the Jets sideline?

Wasn't the Pats employee on the Jets sideline?

 

[SkinsandTerps]

Wasn't the Pats employee on the Jets sideline?

Yes. He was.

 

[fortdick]

Wasn't the Pats employee on the Jets sideline?

I don't believe so. If the guy was on the Jet's sideline, then Mangini should be suspended for being stupid. I wouldn;t let the opposing teams staff on my sideline. Would you?

 

[SkinsandTerps]

http://i60.***BLOCKED***/albums/h26/yanipigott/pats-camera.jpg

 

[superpunk]

I don't believe so. If the guy was on the Jet's sideline, then Mangini should be suspended for being stupid. I wouldn;t let the opposing teams staff on my sideline. Would you?

It's nice to know you educated yourself on the story before starting multiple threads about it and how small of a deal it is.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3015478

NFL security confiscated a video camera and tape from Patriots video assistant Matt Estrella on Sunday when he was working on the New York Jets' sideline during New England's 38-14 victory.

 

[Hoov]

i picked a 4 game suspension for BB. Everyone says take draft pics, has that been done to a team as punishment before ? The draft has nothing to do with the fact that the team tried to cheat and learn signal calls. So why choose take away draft pics, because that would decrease the talent of the pats team - but again what does that have to do with cheating in a game by the coaches ?

I say a 4 game suspension, apparently this spying seems to be done a lot, this is the first time someone has been caughht redhanded and corrective action is being taken so 4 games sounds like a good plave to start.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Those 54% who answered......

"Fine, suspend Belichick for 4 games and multiple first day pick"

better prepare yourselves for disappointment.

There probably will be a fine, but Belicheater won't get suspended for 4 games and there will probably be a loss of only one draft pick.

 

[sago1]

Goodell suspended Wade Wilson for 5 games for using that steriod for medical purposes and he used the argument coaches must be held to a higher standard. What kind of standard does it show if Belicheck only gets suspended for 4 games -- nothing.

I think Belicheck should be suspended for 8 games (he's the head coach for pete's sakes and probably behind the whole thing) with absolutely no contact, direct or indirect, with anyone connected with the Pats.

Also believe Pats should lose multiple picks and I'd give one of those picks (maybe Pats first rounder) to the Jets for compensation. No forfeiture of game since no precedent has been set but future warning of such action could be established when Goodell acts.

Also consideration to a cap fine to prevent Pats from going out and simply just buying 1 or 2 players to replace those picks the Pats would be losing. Have no doubt that is exactly what Belicheck would do.

Also if I were the Commish I might have a quiet conversation with Kraft about what's happened and how unfortunate it might be if Pats ever did such a thing again -- subtle threat that Pats 3 SB could be considered "tainted".

 

[cleverusername]

I have been thinking about that. Did Goodell spell out what the penalties would be for stealing signs? Whatever he decides would have been fair if he had spelled out the repercussions before hand.

The penalty for stealing signs? It's a class 1 misdemeanor that could cost The Patriots up to 120 days in jail and a $500 fine!


http://i181.***BLOCKED***/albums/x155/cleverusername75/sighnstealers.jpg

 

[cleverusername]

Those 54% who answered......

"Fine, suspend Belichick for 4 games and multiple first day pick"

better prepare yourselves for disappointment.

There probably will be a fine, but Belicheater won't get suspended for 4 games and there will probably be a loss of only one draft pick.

Really?

It seems to me that if our fans think he deserves a stiffer penalty, then it stands to reason that others around the league feel the same way.

In the previous instances, I think most people have considered Goodell's penalties to be harsher than expected. Why not in this case as well?

 

[sacase]

Well here is what racing did about someone who was spying...

http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/news/story?seriesId=6&id=3017450
FIA fines McLaren $100 million in Ferrari spy case

Associated Press

Updated: September 13, 2007, 1:58 PM ET

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PARIS -- Formula One's governing body says it has fined the McLaren team $100 million and stripped it of points in the constructors' championship in the sport's spying scandal.

100,000,000 dollars......
/makes the Dr. Evil pinky face.....

$100,000,000 would certanly get everyone's attention and I guarentee it won't happen again. Plus don't allow them in the playoffs for the next two year. I could live with that. Anyone got Goddell's email address? LOL

 

[LandryFan]

Large fine, 8 games for BB, and loss of multiple picks, not all picks. No one can tell me that BB wasn't involved in this. He so much as admitted so when he said he visited with the commissioner and claimed he had a different take on the "rules of videotaping". Many have already brought up the 5 game suspension our coach got for a transgression that had nothing whatsoever to do with the game itself. If a coach is held to a higher standard than a player, what standard should a Head Coach be held to for a far more serious violation?

 

[cleverusername]

Large fine, 8 games for BB, and loss of multiple picks, not all picks. No one can tell me that BB wasn't involved in this. He so much as admitted so when he said he visited with the commissioner and claimed he had a different take on the "rules of videotaping". Many have already brought up the 5 game suspension our coach got for a transgression that had nothing whatsoever to do with the game itself. If a coach is held to a higher standard than a player, what standard should a Head Coach be held to for a far more serious violation?

Booyahkasha!