Skins ready to move on from RGIII

[WPBCowboysFan]

Take your heads out of your rears and think

Says the guy who ignores all the obvious drama and personality issues as well as the inability to read a defense or demonstrate any pocket presence by the stud backup which is the very reason for him falling to the #3 spot on a team that has KC1 and Colt McCoy ahead of him on the depth chart.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

It boggles my mind that there are Cowboys fans who want RG3 on our team or are okay with him being on our team.

He is not a good QB. He has absolutely none of the intangibles that you want your QB to have. And I think he'd be terrible trying to run our offense. I pray he never wears the star.

Let some other team deal with his subpar skills and drama.

I have no problem with bringing him in if it is at a cheap rate and is willing to work as a backup, hone his skills, be ready to play if needed and develop.

It's a lot to ask from any QB, but that is the corner he has painted himself into. And if he's willing to jump thru those hoops I think he will be a much better QB for it.

The fact is that our backups are horrendous. I would take RG3 over Brandon Weeden right now because Weeden is pathetically bad outside of having a very strong arm. I don't want to give up on Vaughn, but in all likelihood he was never going to be a quality NFL starter to begin with.

The other fact is that Romo is 35 years old. What worries me about QB's of that age is that when they get a legitimate injury their recovery time is longer and/or they may never be nearly as effective again. And as we saw a few years ago, all it takes is for 1 player to miss their assignment and that can put your QB on I-R.

I think RG3 has the intangibles to be a good QB. The problem for him is that he started right away and in a gimmicky offense. The other problem is that he plays for the Skins who are notoriously terrible at developing talent. And I think Garrett's strength so far is along with the assistant coaches is developing talent. We still have the same GM in big, bad Jerry...but now he looks like a genius draft evaluator. I tend to believe that all that has really changed is that Garrett is the HC and we have a lot of good assistant coaches and combined the coaching staff does a great job of developing talent. Galaxies better than Wade and in reality, much better than Parcells.

If we had a good, young backup QB waiting in the wings I would be more averse to spending time on a player like RG3. Since we do not, I'd rather take the chance if everything is right (salary, attitude, health, etc).





YR

 

[LandryFan]

One of Jimmy Johnson's early moves when he came to Dallas was to trade for Dean Hamel, a DT for the Commanders. Hamel started most of the 1989 season.

But on those teams, Dorothy Hamel could have started.

 

[egn22]

I have no problem with bringing him in if it is at a cheap rate and is willing to work as a backup, hone his skills, be ready to play if needed and develop.

It's a lot to ask from any QB, but that is the corner he has painted himself into. And if he's willing to jump thru those hoops I think he will be a much better QB for it.

The fact is that our backups are horrendous. I would take RG3 over Brandon Weeden right now because Weeden is pathetically bad outside of having a very strong arm. I don't want to give up on Vaughn, but in all likelihood he was never going to be a quality NFL starter to begin with.

The other fact is that Romo is 35 years old. What worries me about QB's of that age is that when they get a legitimate injury their recovery time is longer and/or they may never be nearly as effective again. And as we saw a few years ago, all it takes is for 1 player to miss their assignment and that can put your QB on I-R.

I think RG3 has the intangibles to be a good QB. The problem for him is that he started right away and in a gimmicky offense. The other problem is that he plays for the Skins who are notoriously terrible at developing talent. And I think Garrett's strength so far is along with the assistant coaches is developing talent. We still have the same GM in big, bad Jerry...but now he looks like a genius draft evaluator. I tend to believe that all that has really changed is that Garrett is the HC and we have a lot of good assistant coaches and combined the coaching staff does a great job of developing talent. Galaxies better than Wade and in reality, much better than Parcells.

If we had a good, young backup QB waiting in the wings I would be more averse to spending time on a player like RG3. Since we do not, I'd rather take the chance if everything is right (salary, attitude, health, etc).





YR

Well said. I agree completely.

 

[egn22]

Says the guy who ignores all the obvious drama and personality issues as well as the inability to read a defense or demonstrate any pocket presence by the stud backup which is the very reason for him falling to the #3 spot on a team that has KC1 and Colt McCoy ahead of him on the depth chart.

Where did I say ignore anything? I said he's still young, can possibly change, and should be considered since we don't have a decent backup.

More reading, less emotion, you'll eventually come around.

 

[Stryker44]

20 TDS to 5 INTs in 2012.

Over 3000 yards passing and 850 yards rushing.

How can this guy have fallen so far from that skill level?

 

[Yakuza Rich]

20 TDS to 5 INTs in 2012.

Over 3000 yards passing and 850 yards rushing.

How can this guy have fallen so far from that skill level?

NFL D-Coordinators did a terrible job of preparing for the read-option looks and Alfred Morris was far better than anybody could have expected.

The problems I saw with RG3 right away is he had difficulty seeing over his linemen. But, he could counter that in his rookie season with play fakes. The LB's would bite so hard on the play fakes the receiver would be wide open over the middle. That's typically a tough throw to make unless you're a 6'4"+ QB with an overhand throwing motion. But opposing defenses at that time were making it easy by biting on the play fake so much that virtually anybody could make that throw.

The 2nd time the Cowboys faced the Skins, you could see that Rob Ryan had instructed the LB's to not bite on the fake. And it worked as far as stopping the pass goes. The issue was that we had so many injuries that we had guys on the field that had no business being there and Alfred Morris ran for a gazillion yards (200 yards to be exact).

By 2013, defenses were completely focused on stopping the read-option due to the success of RG3, Kaepernick and Wilson. They started to blitz it more often. I remember Kyle Shanahan raving about the read option because he saw defenses stopped blitzing it. I knew that Shanahan was in real trouble if he thought it was going to stay that way because the best defense against play action is to blitz (play fakes take extra time and can't handle guys getting upfield).

Eventually, that led to the Skins trying to dump the read option and go with a more traditional West Coast Offense.

The issue I find with WCO is that the coaches tend to:

1. prefer footwork and making the checkdowns at the correct time over QB's with better and more accurate arms and that move the ball downfield.

2. tend to think that athletic QB's with poor footwork will fit in their system (same happened to Mike Vick in Atlanta)

That's why I could see the Skins coaches being more apt to like Cousins than RG3. Doesn't mean that Cousins is a good QB though.

The good thing about an offense like Garrett's is that it's not nearly as footwork oriented as the WCO which is extremely timing dependent and if you don't nail the footwork down, it throws the entire play off.

RG3 sorta reminds me of another former Heismann winner that had a rocket arm and good athleticism and went to a dysfunctional franchise and floundered before going to one of the top teams in the league that was from his hometown and was given time on the bench to develop and learn. He went on to win 2 Super Bowls.

YR

 

[SkinsHokieFan]

20 TDS to 5 INTs in 2012.

Over 3000 yards passing and 850 yards rushing.

How can this guy have fallen so far from that skill level?

Oh my gosh, you can't be typing that. The team and Robert simply refused to run it at all. The Seahawks still sprinkle it in with success. Even Cousins ran it this pre-season with success.

Easy, and it was noticeable the first game in 2013. That injury cost him valuable development time, took away his explosiveness and he himself no longer was committed to the O that made him a star his rookie year.

The RO, sprinkled in is a terrific O. I love the pistol

I also agree with Yakuza that a WCO is a horrible fit for a guy like Griffin or Vick, big time deep arm talents but footwork in the pocket is meh. I did love the potential fit of Griffin in the bootleg offense with Shannahan even before being drafted, but his problem is he is terrible throwing on the move while going to his left. So that takes away half the bootleg game.

I still do think if he goes and is with Norv he can re-build himself and his career. Even the Joe Gibbs passing offense would fit. The WCO (which I hate btw, I have since the 90s) is simply not the offense for him, and is a better fit with Cousins even though he is the inferior QB talent.

 

[egn22]

NFL D-Coordinators did a terrible job of preparing for the read-option looks and Alfred Morris was far better than anybody could have expected.

The problems I saw with RG3 right away is he had difficulty seeing over his linemen. But, he could counter that in his rookie season with play fakes. The LB's would bite so hard on the play fakes the receiver would be wide open over the middle. That's typically a tough throw to make unless you're a 6'4"+ QB with an overhand throwing motion. But opposing defenses at that time were making it easy by biting on the play fake so much that virtually anybody could make that throw.

The 2nd time the Cowboys faced the Skins, you could see that Rob Ryan had instructed the LB's to not bite on the fake. And it worked as far as stopping the pass goes. The issue was that we had so many injuries that we had guys on the field that had no business being there and Alfred Morris ran for a gazillion yards (200 yards to be exact).

By 2013, defenses were completely focused on stopping the read-option due to the success of RG3, Kaepernick and Wilson. They started to blitz it more often. I remember Kyle Shanahan raving about the read option because he saw defenses stopped blitzing it. I knew that Shanahan was in real trouble if he thought it was going to stay that way because the best defense against play action is to blitz (play fakes take extra time and can't handle guys getting upfield).

Eventually, that led to the Skins trying to dump the read option and go with a more traditional West Coast Offense.

The issue I find with WCO is that the coaches tend to:

1. prefer footwork and making the checkdowns at the correct time over QB's with better and more accurate arms and that move the ball downfield.

2. tend to think that athletic QB's with poor footwork will fit in their system (same happened to Mike Vick in Atlanta)

That's why I could see the Skins coaches being more apt to like Cousins than RG3. Doesn't mean that Cousins is a good QB though.

The good thing about an offense like Garrett's is that it's not nearly as footwork oriented as the WCO which is extremely timing dependent and if you don't nail the footwork down, it throws the entire play off.

RG3 sorta reminds me of another former Heismann winner that had a rocket arm and good athleticism and went to a dysfunctional franchise and floundered before going to one of the top teams in the league that was from his hometown and was given time on the bench to develop and learn. He went on to win 2 Super Bowls.

YR

Wow.... What a great read.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

RG3 sorta reminds me of another former Heismann winner that had a rocket arm and good athleticism and went to a dysfunctional franchise and floundered before going to one of the top teams in the league that was from his hometown and was given time on the bench to develop and learn. He went on to win 2 Super Bowls.

YR

RGIII is a much better athlete then Plunkett ever was and Plunkett, IMO, is a much better passer then RGIII ever was but I can see the similarities.

 

[Silver Surfer]

RG3 sorta reminds me of another former Heismann winner that had a rocket arm and good athleticism and went to a dysfunctional franchise and floundered before going to one of the top teams in the league that was from his hometown and was given time on the bench to develop and learn. He went on to win 2 Super Bowls.

YR

At first glance, I was wondering is that Jim Plunkett? Then I read your post.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

At first glance, I was wondering is that Jim Plunkett? Then I read your post.

I thought it was Blake Griffin

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

I have no problem with bringing him in if it is at a cheap rate and is willing to work as a backup, hone his skills, be ready to play if needed and develop.

It's a lot to ask from any QB, but that is the corner he has painted himself into. And if he's willing to jump thru those hoops I think he will be a much better QB for it.

The fact is that our backups are horrendous. I would take RG3 over Brandon Weeden right now because Weeden is pathetically bad outside of having a very strong arm. I don't want to give up on Vaughn, but in all likelihood he was never going to be a quality NFL starter to begin with.

The other fact is that Romo is 35 years old. What worries me about QB's of that age is that when they get a legitimate injury their recovery time is longer and/or they may never be nearly as effective again. And as we saw a few years ago, all it takes is for 1 player to miss their assignment and that can put your QB on I-R.

I think RG3 has the intangibles to be a good QB. The problem for him is that he started right away and in a gimmicky offense. The other problem is that he plays for the Skins who are notoriously terrible at developing talent. And I think Garrett's strength so far is along with the assistant coaches is developing talent. We still have the same GM in big, bad Jerry...but now he looks like a genius draft evaluator. I tend to believe that all that has really changed is that Garrett is the HC and we have a lot of good assistant coaches and combined the coaching staff does a great job of developing talent. Galaxies better than Wade and in reality, much better than Parcells.

If we had a good, young backup QB waiting in the wings I would be more averse to spending time on a player like RG3. Since we do not, I'd rather take the chance if everything is right (salary, attitude, health, etc).





YR

What's your line of thinking for getting him cheap? How would that be possible? At all?
Skins eat most of guaranteed money?

I'm curious...

 

[Yakuza Rich]

What's your line of thinking for getting him cheap? How would that be possible? At all?
Skins eat most of guaranteed money?

I'm curious...

I figure he will likely get released after this season. I don't think there are many teams interested in trading for him.

From there he will not get any bigger offers than say Tim Tebow got.

I think the Skins are screwed any way they slice it.




YR

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Oh my gosh, you can't be typing that. The team and Robert simply refused to run it at all. The Seahawks still sprinkle it in with success. Even Cousins ran it this pre-season with success.

Easy, and it was noticeable the first game in 2013. That injury cost him valuable development time, took away his explosiveness and he himself no longer was committed to the O that made him a star his rookie year.

The RO, sprinkled in is a terrific O. I love the pistol

I also agree with Yakuza that a WCO is a horrible fit for a guy like Griffin or Vick, big time deep arm talents but footwork in the pocket is meh. I did love the potential fit of Griffin in the bootleg offense with Shannahan even before being drafted, but his problem is he is terrible throwing on the move while going to his left. So that takes away half the bootleg game.

I still do think if he goes and is with Norv he can re-build himself and his career. Even the Joe Gibbs passing offense would fit. The WCO (which I hate btw, I have since the 90s) is simply not the offense for him, and is a better fit with Cousins even though he is the inferior QB talent.

One problem I have with this is, I don't think the Commanders "sprinkled in" the read option. I know someone over at extremeskins broke it down and gave the exact percentage, but during the win streak, I think it was featured and not "sprinkled in."

Once it started to get phased out, RG3 was in for a hard time, mainly because he had no experience running any semblance of a pro offense. Not sure if it was exaggerated, but it's been reported that they didn't even have a playbook at Baylor and Russell Wilson doesn't struggle with the more mundane aspects of QB play like a simple 3-5-7 step drop (not hoping after that last step).

 

[Idgit]

I have no problem with bringing him in if it is at a cheap rate and is willing to work as a backup, hone his skills, be ready to play if needed and develop.

It's a lot to ask from any QB, but that is the corner he has painted himself into. And if he's willing to jump thru those hoops I think he will be a much better QB for it.

The fact is that our backups are horrendous. I would take RG3 over Brandon Weeden right now because Weeden is pathetically bad outside of having a very strong arm. I don't want to give up on Vaughn, but in all likelihood he was never going to be a quality NFL starter to begin with.

The other fact is that Romo is 35 years old. What worries me about QB's of that age is that when they get a legitimate injury their recovery time is longer and/or they may never be nearly as effective again. And as we saw a few years ago, all it takes is for 1 player to miss their assignment and that can put your QB on I-R.

I think RG3 has the intangibles to be a good QB. The problem for him is that he started right away and in a gimmicky offense. The other problem is that he plays for the Skins who are notoriously terrible at developing talent. And I think Garrett's strength so far is along with the assistant coaches is developing talent. We still have the same GM in big, bad Jerry...but now he looks like a genius draft evaluator. I tend to believe that all that has really changed is that Garrett is the HC and we have a lot of good assistant coaches and combined the coaching staff does a great job of developing talent. Galaxies better than Wade and in reality, much better than Parcells.

If we had a good, young backup QB waiting in the wings I would be more averse to spending time on a player like RG3. Since we do not, I'd rather take the chance if everything is right (salary, attitude, health, etc).

YR

Honestly, as much fun as it is to make fun of RGIII and the Skins, I wouldn't mind it, either. We're actually a great spot for him, if he's willing to take the step back and rehabilitate his image. One, we've got decent connections to Baylor, including having players he's played with on the roster and Art Briles' daughter working in our PR department. He can go back to Texas. He can spend a year or two with some of the better QB coaches in the game working on his fundamentals. We've got an OL to protect him, and positive environment where he doesn't have to be the star and he won't be the star. He's got friends on the roster already. Emotionally, you know it's a plus to stick it to the organization who drafted him by going to their biggest rival to rehabilitate. We're in the market for a young QB and have a strong veteran locker room in place already. It sort of makes too much sense.

The only real question is whether or not we like his potential enough to carry him on the roster. Honestly, I don't, but I guess a lot of that depends on how he answers basic questions about his expectations, too. If the scouts like him and the organization vets him, I'm all for adding a talented young player who's got some work to do at a position of major need.

He'd need to fix those stringy dreads, though, because they look awful.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

I figure he will likely get released after this season. I don't think there are many teams interested in trading for him.

From there he will not get any bigger offers than say Tim Tebow got.

I think the Skins are screwed any way they slice it.




YR

I think there would be interest from more than a few teams. As a starter... Eventual starter.

You know how these coaches/coordinators are... They always feel like they can "fix" players or their team is better for then. Etc.

I don't think RGIII comes cheap to any team.

He will be given a big "second" chance.... Somewhere...

 

[Silver Surfer]

I thought it was Blake Griffin

Just showin' my age.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

you know what, after watching this buffoonery unfold, I think it's not entirely RG3's fault. doesn't mean he can play QB, but he didn't have a snowball's chance in ****.

 

[Denim Chicken]