Some Facts about penalties, the Cowboys, and their opponents

[Reality]

I agree that the NFL isnt using technology as well as it could. Changes need to be made for sure. If booth reviews were quick and decisive, I would be ok with that. But it won’t stop many fans from saying they missed a few calls or didn’t call some more. That will always be there.

I think one of the biggest problems is the NFL over regulates its game. Too many flags. I prefer the “let them play” mentality to a 20 penalty flag fest.

NFL games are stopped (aka: interrupted) for 7-10 minutes throughout the game for commercials.

I think they can review a play and make a call on it in less than 7-10 minutes.

 

[Diehardblues]

I was coached the same and in most of the sports I played that was always true.

The problem is a single bad-timed flag, justified or not, can have a dramatic impact on a game beyond the moment it happens.

For example, a touchdown called back followed by an interception return for a touchdown creates a 14 point swing.

Yes, you shouldn't throw an interception regardless of penalties but if that flag was not thrown, the interception never happened and it is an entirely different game.

In any case, the problem I have with officiating is that with the technology we all have access to (meaning the fans as well), there is no excuse for ever getting a call wrong in an NFL game.

Every play should be reviewable both through coaches challenge as well as self-reviewable by an official that should be placed in the TV booth.

Every flag thrown should be reviewable. Every non-flag thrown should be reviewable.

If the officials are self-reviewing their own calls, then coaches get 3 challenges per game (not half) with no way to gain or lose any beyond using them.

If the officials are not self-reviewing then coaches should get 5 challenges per game (not half).

When we as fans can clearly see something sitting at home, there is no excuse for the officials not seeing and correcting (if necessary) it immediately at the game.

Unfortunately this is probably where the league eventually goes by reviewing basically every play. Or at least ability to review.

I’m not sure the game has to be perfectly called. I don’t even like that every TD and reception are reviewed. Close used to count. But I get the argument.

 

[MarionBarberThe4th]

You can mug ceedee and Micah but god forbid Tyler smith hand isn’t perfectly in a dudes chest plate

 

[Reality]

I agree that the NFL isnt using technology as well as it could. Changes need to be made for sure. If booth reviews were quick and decisive, I would be ok with that. But it won’t stop many fans from saying they missed a few calls or didn’t call some more. That will always be there.

I think one of the biggest problems is the NFL over regulates its game. Too many flags. I prefer the “let them play” mentality to a 20 penalty flag fest.

I do not think there is any conspiracy against the Cowboys because the NFL reviews each referee's performance every year and replaces ones who make mistakes and rewards the ones who do well with playoff games.

That said, the level of incompetence from the officials has been on full display with both video and photo evidence when it comes to blockers holding Micah.

When the Cowboys played the Eagles last, I remember a play where Micah sacked Hurts and at the same time he had two Eagles players bear-hugging him from the side and back while he did it, yet no flag was thrown.

I think the real problem with officials is they fail to factor in that there are players who do not fit the mold of most other players at their positions.

For example, Ware was great at jumping the snap and as a result he got called offsides several times despite replay showing he just timed it perfectly and had not crossed the line before the ball was snapped.

Why was the flag thrown? Because Ware moved before everyone else and officials were used to that being a telltale sign of being offsides.

When it comes to Micah, referees are used to pass rushers being bigger so the holds against those players have a more dramatic response from the rusher.

Because Micah is not as big as many pass rushers, the holds don't turn or torque him like they do other rushers, but instead impede his progress. They are both holds, but normal rushers show more obvious signs when they are held.

I think in the coming years we are going to see a lot more types of players playing different positions and there is no way for lifelong referees, who are used to looking for specific aspects and markers to throw flags, to constantly adapt and make the calls in the 1-2 second windows they have sometimes.

That is why using technology, even after the fact (the play), would be the smartest move the NFL could make.

 

[Bobhaze]

One thing I don’t want to see is a constant ”us vs them” fight among fellow Cowboys fans over this. I know many great Cowboys fans are upset about the penalty issue. I get that and I get why people feel that way. It shouldn’t make us turn on each other though.

I still feel the Cowboys destiny the rest of this season ultimately depends on how well they play and how they handle the things they control as a team. They don’t have any control over the refs so hopefully they just stay focused on playing great football every play.

 

[Diehardblues]

NFL games are stopped (aka: interrupted) for 7-10 minutes throughout the game for commercials.

I think they can review a play and make a call on it in less than 7-10 minutes.

In order to review potentially every play they’d need to be able to review in seconds. That process would need refining. Because the networks aren’t going to want games longer than 3 hours on the average.

I’d also consider tweaking some of the new rules implemented in recent years that were implemented protecting QB and ticky tacky PI calls which all have added to the subjective officiating .

I’d expect the league to move slowly with any changes they make as they have done in the past experimenting or trial runs.

Will we just have more commercial breaks during reviews . There’s a balance between total accuracy and flow of the game for entertainment value and maintaining the captive audience.

I’d also consider showing less instant replay or camera angles to the fans. Like officials if you don’t see it in real time perhaps it wasn’t blatant. This need for perfection in a game played by humans is a concern to me.

 

[Diehardblues]

I do not think there is any conspiracy against the Cowboys because the NFL reviews each referee's performance every year and replaces ones who make mistakes and rewards the ones who do well with playoff games.

That said, the level of incompetence from the officials has been on full display with both video and photo evidence when it comes to blockers holding Micah.

When the Cowboys played the Eagles last, I remember a play where Micah sacked Hurts and at the same time he had two Eagles players bear-hugging him from the side and back while he did it, yet no flag was thrown.

I think the real problem with officials is they fail to factor in that there are players who do not fit the mold of most other players at their positions.

For example, Ware was great at jumping the snap and as a result he got called offsides several times despite replay showing he just timed it perfectly and had not crossed the line before the ball was snapped.

Why was the flag thrown? Because Ware moved before everyone else and officials were used to that being a telltale sign of being offsides.

When it comes to Micah, referees are used to pass rushers being bigger so the holds against those players have a more dramatic response from the rusher.

Because Micah is not as big as many pass rushers, the holds don't turn or torque him like they do other rushers, but instead impede his progress. They are both holds, but normal rushers show more obvious signs when they are held.

I think in the coming years we are going to see a lot more types of players playing different positions and there is no way for lifelong referees, who are used to looking for specific aspects and markers to throw flags, to constantly adapt and make the calls in the 1-2 second windows they have sometimes.

That is why using technology, even after the fact (the play), would be the smartest move the NFL could make.

Your observation of why officials aren’t possibly making the calls on Parsons is very instinctive.

And one of best thoughts on overall issue.

 

[Diehardblues]

One thing I don’t want to see is a constant ”us vs them” fight among fellow Cowboys fans over this. I know many great Cowboys fans are upset about the penalty issue. I get that and I get why people feel that way. It shouldn’t make us turn on each other though.

I still feel the Cowboys destiny the rest of this season ultimately depends on how well they play and how they handle the things they control as a team. They don’t have any control over the refs so hopefully they just stay focused on playing great football every play.

Fans have always been upset over bad calls or no calls.

It’s reached a new height with Parsons. But there’s several moving parts in play.

I attend a lot of High School games where we don’t always even get to see instant replay and fans boo the officials. It’s always been part of the game.

We can all sit next to each other and see the result of the play or officials calls differently.

The divide is more on whether it’s intentional collusion by the league or personal bias by officials which beyond camera footage there is no evidence. Not even an investigation, nothing.

Pure sour grapes by fans which is understandable and arguably justified until they start calling it rigged without any other evidence to support. Typical social media bs.

 

[Chasing6]

Statistics and facts are stubborn things.....

Statistics are not necessarily facts. If the data is not accurate it is pretty much useless.

 

[Bobhaze]

So true. I'd like to see what we lost/gained vs. what opponents lost/gained. That seems out of whack with the naked eye

We have been penalized for 910 yards and our opponents have had 860 yards in penalties.

That’s a -50 yards against us but it’s spread out across 15 games. It’s about 3.33 yards more per game.

 

[BoysForLife]

Yep

Overcoming a bad call is like overcoming a bad play or turnover. The great teams don’t make excuses.

That's because the great teams don't need to.

 

[TheHerd]

We have been penalized for 910 yards and our opponents have had 860 yards in penalties.

That’s a -50 yards against us but it’s spread out across 15 games. It’s about 3.33 yards more per game

You’re missing my point. 3rd and 7, we complete a 22 yard pass but get a holding penalty. Now it’s 32 yards lost. And a first down. Then consider 2 offsides penalties on first downs. 10 yards lost. And it’s 2nd and 15 as opposed to 3rd and 27. Very different result for the same 10 yards in penalties. Plus timing in the game is critical.

 

[Bobhaze]

You’re missing my point. 3rd and 7, we complete a 22 yard pass but get a holding penalty. Now it’s 32 yards lost. And a first down. Then consider 2 offsides penalties on first downs. 10 yards lost. And it’s 2nd and 15 as opposed to 3rd and 27. Very different result for the same 10 yards in penalties. Plus timing in the game is critical.

That would be interesting to know. I welcome the research.

 

[Canada180]

There’s been a lot of talk this week about NFL officiating, questions about the NFL rigging games against the Cowboys, etc. I’m on record as someone who believes NFL officiating is certainly bad at times but I do not believe there is some evil conspiracy against the Cowboys. Have the officials missed too many holding calls against Micah Parsons? Yes, for sure. Are they “out to get us”? No.

Here are just the basic facts regarding penalties and the Cowboys.

• The Cowboys have been flagged 108 times for 910 yards. (2nd most in the NFL)
• Cowboys’ opponents have been flagged 94 times for 860 yards. (5th most yards for an opponent in the NFL)
• The difference between Cowboys and their opponents‘ is 12 penalties over 15 games.(Cowboys avg 1.25 more penalties per game than our opponents)
• The difference in penalty yardage of Cowboys vs our opponents is 50 yards. Over 15 games, that averages 3.33 yards per game difference in penalty yardage between Cowboys and opponents.

Website that contains great info on NFL penalties in 2023: https://www.nflpenalties.com/

Contextualization and perspective. Alot of fans here should read this thread!! Its hard to enjoy anything, even winning when you paint yourself as a victim constantly

 

[TheHerd]

That would be interesting to know. I welcome the research.

I would love someone to do it! I don’t have the time to spare. My eye test this year says (Micah holding aside), we’re making out better than our opponents.

 

[Mac_MaloneV1]

Yea, this is devoid of the context of when/where calls are made. Not all penalties are created equal.

It also ignores missed calls - especially relative to what the Cowboys get called for.

 

[noshame]

The only penalties that are killing this team are self inflicted period .

but don't worry mike's gonna get a handle on it.

 

[Mac_MaloneV1]

Yep

Overcoming a bad call is like overcoming a bad play or turnover. The great teams don’t make excuses.

It's also mythology.

The idea that teams just "overcome" 2nd and 20 after a crappy holding call is, quite frankly, b.s.

 

[Mac_MaloneV1]

Oh, everyone wanted to forget that game. That was against the Eagles at home. Three picked up flags and a double-penalized a Philly player that allowed us to stack the penalty yardage with those fouls. You never have those things happening in one game let alone the same game benefitting only one team. It was the exact same "odd and rare occurrence" that the 'spiracy crew claim only happens to us. People were actually mad as I pointed it out. Mad at a win because they couldn't claim victim at the same time. I will forever reference that game, lol.

That game is just more evidence that they are are "scripted."

They had to give Dallas calls so that the division race was still on through the remainder of the year. If anything, it proves the point.

 

[nhcowboysfan]

I certainly understand the general frustration regarding penalties - and some questioning whether there is a possible organized effort by referees or even the league itself to screw over the Cowboys. I'm not there yet. My concern is that it appears that officials have become too prevalent in the conversation on a week-to-week basis regarding the outcomes of games. It seems like every weekend, there is a discussion about how Team A beat Team B, and that Team B was the victim of a couple of blatantly bad penalties or non-calls, that aided in Team A winning. These now seemingly weekly conversations is ruining our faith in the integrity of the sport and the fun of the games themselves

This is the reason why I stopped watching the NBA. Haven't watched it for more than a decade, because the referees became too involved in the game. Watch an NBA game and see if you can get 40 seconds of play without some ref blowing a whistle. The same appears to be happening in the NFL, especially the past several years. I no longer know what pass interference or holding is. But I can certainly understand the anger when we have a Tyron Smith or Tyler Smith - both ranked amongst the top at their respective positions - get called for questionable holding calls; and then the same officiating crew has blinders on when Parsons is constantly getting wrapped around the waist, chest, and neck. All I expect is consistency. Or to use a baseball analogy: call balls and strikes the same for both teams.

Having pointed this out, what the Cowboys can change are the self-inflicted penalties that have become too common. I feel that if we could clean up the penalties - especially the pre-snap penalties on both sides of the ball - that would allow us to have more successful drives and also allow us to stop opponent's drives. Then when we do get called for that head-scratching penalty or non-called penalty on the opposing team, it won't have as much of an impact on the outcome of the game. Now, let's go beat Detroit this weekend.